Bias against New Age

[silent thunder]

because its annoying

 

what would you feel if you had a person who is always saying

 

that you fly if you just believe in it enough but he can actually never fly

 

(this is a common line on new age forums, flying thing is really popular)

 

I'm not threatened anymore by teachings that don't serve me. I simply let them go.

But I don't need to attack them either. Timing on one's path has a lot to do with relevancy of teachings and I can see where many people are served by teachings that are anathema to me.

 

I was raised in a fairly fundamentalist mind-set but it couldn't hold me past age 14-15 when I read the bible for myself and stopped just believing what I was told.

 

Even following a lie will serve truth in the end, as eventually the lie will be exposed and the truth will be revealed.

 

All lies serve the truth when revealed as a lie.

[silent thunder]

What we 'know' is what we've chosen to believe. What if someone learns from a teacher who provides nothing but lies? The student believes his teacher to be correct, therefore making the student see only what his beliefs allow; which could be lies.

 

Let it all be a mystery, because everything is an illusion.

 

I love this. Live the question.

[三江源]

Yes Tibetan Ice has some really good insights and is widely versed.

But not all wisdom will be relevant to all other's paths. I dont think the but here is necessary. I can't dismiss all of Adya on another's accounting, I must run it through my system. I dont think respecting an informed critique of Adya carries any implication that we must dismiss Adya because of the critique. It is just more information.

 

I get the protectiveness factor and that is likely a major source of the dismissiveness.

Not wanting to muddy the waters, nor sully the holy.

 

But I come from a perspective that it is patently impossible to hide truth, nor to sully the holy. I dont think there is any need of a but here.

If it's manifest, it's holy to me, be it a dog turd, a consecrated altar or a merit crystal from a monk's remains.

 

I guess it comes down to where you are on your path. There are certainly many teachings in the christianity I was raised with that no longer serve me. But they did serve me at one point and still do, insofar as they show me what I am not aligned with currently.

I like the idea that it is impossible to hide the truth, and I believe it.

 

I also believe, no, I know, that it is very possible to be unable to see the truth.

 

So misdirection, inadvertent, born of ignorance, or merely sloppy but well meaning as it may be, surely adds to the confusion.

[Apech]

To me, everybody has their own ideas about what this same thing we feel actually is - and some people and some traditions think their explanation and practice is the only true and valid manifestation of this... so anything that is different then theirs, is seen as not only wrong, but a risk to their parametered thoughts and so is subject to ridicule. It's like the metaphor of fingers pointing to the moon - we are all pointing at the same moon, yes? Ridiculing others' ways of pointing shows only our own loss of sight of what is central to us all.

 

 

I agree and I think we should be wary of critiques between different paths/systems ... cos its usually about terms and often ones that are not defined properly to start with. But there is of course a difference between good 'stuff' and B/S.

[三江源]

yes ... but also the philosophers stone ... or to put it Buddhist-wise your liberation is possible because you have Buddha-nature ... all else, your master, your deity ... whatever, reflects this back to you ... or to put it another way you look with two eyes. With one eye you see your teacher is an ordinary being who does ordinary things but with the other eye you recognise his shining perfection ... which is your shining perfection too. If you ask fro blessings from the ordinary side you get ordinary blessings, if you ask from the other side you get true blessings ....

Yes, the prima materia is all.

 

Funny then, that we all have this within us, and yet we dont all become enlightened or sage.

[rene]

Funny then, that we all have this within us, and yet we dont all become enlightened or sage.

 

Maybe because too worried about fingers, others and our own.

[Apech]

Yes, the prima materia is all.

 

Funny then, that we all have this within us, and yet we dont all become enlightened or sage.

 

I think maybe its something that you have to be a bit mad/crazy to even want to try to see it ... easier to stay asleep ... the joy of ignorance ...

[silent thunder]

I like the idea that it is impossible to hide the truth, and I believe it.

 

I also believe, no, I know, that it is very possible to be unable to see the truth.

 

So misdirection, inadvertent, born of ignorance, or merely sloppy but well meaning as it may be, surely adds to the confusion.

Really awesome distinction. I have first hand knowledge of that as well.

[silent thunder]

I think maybe its something that you have to be a bit mad/crazy to even want to try to see it ... easier to stay asleep ... the joy of ignorance ...

 

Reminds me of The Grand Inquisitor. Most people don't want the responsibility of waking up.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

"New age" is a catch phrase designed to inspire deliberate thoughts and thought-perspectives.

There's Buddhism and then there's "new age" Buddhism.
There's Christianity, and there's "new age" Christianity.

If you aren't following the orthodox, then you are "new age". that's about all it boils down to.


Frankly, new age, old age, orthodox, or hippie, whatever works is whatever works. the social factor is ridiculous: /thread

[Bubbles]

My understanding of the criticism against New Age is that it is primarily a mix of different fancy theories without a consistent structure and that it only offers tools that nourish the sense of ego instead of allowing people to effectively question it.

[三江源]

Maybe because too worried about fingers, others and our own.

 

 

I was thinking recently about how we are trained to observe each other. And to commentate on each other. We do it in the news, in films, novels, tv's.. we are brought up in an intrusive culture.. the intent may be to learn by example, to get socialised, to be communal.. and yet the flip side of it is all haywire...

[三江源]

.

Edited July 25, 2014 by cat

[silent thunder]

My understanding of the criticism against New Age is that it is primarily a mix of different fancy theories without a consistent structure and that it only offers tools that nourish the sense of ego instead of allowing people to effectively question it.

 

True enough, if you experienced this, it would be a simple step to close the door and dismiss the whole lot.

 

Gets back to reality tunnels and protectiveness of them in the end for me. That which reinforces my reality is held up as a banner of truth. That which challenges or alters it, is attacked, dismissed or ignored.

[rene]

I was thinking recently about how we are trained to observe each other. And to commentate on each other. We do it in the news, in films, novels, tv's.. we are brought up in an intrusive culture.. the intent may be to learn by example, to get socialised, to be communal.. and yet the flip side of it is all haywire...

 

Agree, and would add the haywire intent of marketing. Not only are we taught to observe, but to judge - to find ourselves lacking and therefore needing to buy whatever it is that makes us like others - or to find others lacking and therefore we should join up with the marketers agenda to ridicule/suppress/whatever.

 

Fingers is a big business. Fixed paths are little different than Coca-Cola. A 'hard-to-pin-down-new-age-way' would be a bane to religions, but still a good target for the purveyors of 'spiritual materialism'.

[Apech]

How do we relate to this situation?

 

Compassion? Depression? Frustration?

 

Or do we mind our own business?

 

What about the possibility of - for want of a better term - hypocrisy - that comes about when we are unable to share what our preoccupations are, with the wider world? And so when we are asked by those not of the same madness as us "'what have you been doing? How are you? " we present some confection that will pass muster.

 

Does this damage our authenticity?

 

No because we compassionately recognise the wilful not-wanting-to-know of others and respect their right to know or not-know ... we are kind, in other words so temper our truth to meet the needs of the situation.

 

Is it hypocrisy to keep silent? I don't think so ... the confection we present is our kindness, though perhaps we might from time to time test the barriers a little to be helpful to others.

 

Authenticity means we are authors of our own book of knowledge ... what we have to say and the care with which we say it is a mark of our growing maturity. The extent to which we have woken ourselves is precious and not a pearl to be cast before swine.

 

This is what I think.

[silent thunder]

Seems that bias is a by-product of belief.

Developing a belief and building bias is a mutual process.

Like bees and flowers, neither would exist without the other.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

my bias is and always has been omniversiality.... but no one seems to care to consider it... such a shame...

[Bubbles]

True enough, if you experienced this, it would be a simple step to close the door and dismiss the whole lot.

 

Gets back to reality tunnels and protectiveness of them in the end for me. That which reinforces my reality is held up as a banner of truth. That which challenges or alters it, is attacked, dismissed or ignored.

 

I was essentially talking about effectiveness.

 

That means, does New Age really allow someone to get rid of ego based fears/desires? that is to say to be able to die one day in the grace and with gratitude?

[rene]

Seems that bias is a by-product of belief.

Developing a belief and building bias is a mutual process.

Like bees and flowers, neither would exist without the other.

 

That might depend on the belief itself.

If it is one that says 'my way is the only/best/true way', then yes.

[rene]

I was essentially talking about effectiveness.

 

That means, does New Age really allow someone to get rid of ego based fears/desires? that is to say to be able to die one day in the grace and with gratitude?

 

Those are the side-walls of your reality. That New Age may or may not concern itself with your ideas means what in terms of their effectiveness for them?

Edited July 27, 2013 by rene

[RongzomFan]

I'm curious about the seemingly hateful bias against anything labeled New Age.

 

Hateful bias, or thorough research?

 

Read "Sirens Call of Hungry Ghosts"

[idiot_stimpy]

so you mean all the daoist alchemy and buddhist cultivation

 

its all just a matter of belief ?

 

if thats the case than if you believe that watching tv everyday will make you enlightened, its should work , what do you think ?

 

all the cultivation methods depends on your belief and only if you believe that its true, only than it will work for you

 

if i practice chi kung but dont believe in chi energy and chi kung, it will not work

 

is that what you are saying ?

 

 

Have a look into Chaos Magic if you want a different perspective on what belief can achieve.

[Thunder_Gooch]

I'm curious about the seemingly hateful bias against anything labeled New Age.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Imagine this hypothetical scenario:

 

You discover a viable method anyone can try at home to produce unlimited energy via fusion or some other means. You can demonstrate this and prove it to anyone, however when word of this spreads everyone else comes up with their own free energy device. The problem is their devices don't actually do anything.

 

You soon find that because of the millions of liars, idiots, and silly people who are claiming the same sort of thing you are that no one takes what you've discovered seriously.

 

Even though you have something that could change the world, revolutionize everything, shatter old paradigms....

 

No one cares or even takes it seriously.

 

When you try to bring this to the scientists they refuse to listen, when you bring it to the communities that might care they are more interested in the methods and devices which don't do anything and won't listen either.

 

 

Imagine how absolutely infuriating that would be, to find yourself in scenario like that.

 

 

This is why I hate newagers, occultists, and other such silly people.

 

They chase methods that don't do anything, and because of their overwhelming numbers they make it impossible for those who pursue a real path to be taken seriously, via guilt by association.

 

They also drown out the legitimate methods that do actually get real results in an ocean of disinformation and bs, preventing new generations from finding anything real or meaningful.

 

The whole situation makes me retch.

Edited July 27, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[Bubbles]

Those are the side-walls of your reality. That New Age may or may not concern itself with your ideas means what in terms of their effectiveness for them?

 

He he he, there is no reality without side-walls. We all live in a more or less convivial solipsism.

 

I am sure that New Age must be effective since a lot of people are consumers for what New Age is selling.