Bias against New Age

[RongzomFan]

I am not anti-Bon by the way.

 

Padmasambhava and Vimalamitra are also mostly terma characters.

[idiot_stimpy]

 

Although the Dzogchen teachings are principally familiar to Westerners through the teachings of the Nyingma school, they also survive in the ancient Bön Religion of Tibet. Wonders of the Natural Mind presents Dzogchen as taught in the Zhang Zhung Nyan Gyud, the fundamental Bön text. The book summarizes the main points of Dzogchen and its relation to the various systems of Bön teaching. In offering these teachings, Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche provides the reader with a vivid and engaging portrait of Bön culture as he interweaves the teachings with his personal story and reflections on the practice of Dzogchen in the West.

 

 

Zhang Zhung, Shang Shung, or Tibetan Pinyin Xang Xung, was an ancient culture and kingdom of western and northwestern Tibet, which pre-dates the culture of Tibetan Buddhism in Tibet. Zhang Zhung culture is associated with the Bonreligion, which in turn, has influenced the philosophies and practices of Tibetan Buddhism. The Zhang Zhung are mentioned frequently in ancient Tibetan texts as the original rulers of central and western Tibet. Only in the last two decades have archaeologists been given access to do archaeological work in the areas once ruled by the Zhang Zhung.

 

It is noteworthy that the Bonpo tradition claims that it was founded by a Buddha-like figure named Tonpa Shenrab Miwoche,^[15] to whom are ascribed teachings similar in scope to those ascribed to the historical Buddha. Bonpos claim that Tonpa Shenrab Miwoche lived some 18,000 years ago, and visited Tibet from the land of Tagzig Olmo Lung Ring, or Shambhala. Bonpos also suggest that during this time Lord Shenrab Miwoche's teaching permeated the entire subcontinent and was in part responsible for the development of the Vedic religion. An example of this link is said to be Mount Kailash, which is the center of Zhang Zhung culture, and also the most sacred mountain to Hindus. As a result, the Bonpos claim that the supposedly much later teaching at least indirectly owes its origin to Tonpa Shenrab Miwoche.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhang_Zhung

[RongzomFan]

Does anyone even read the books I link to?

 

The whole story of Bon's "history" is a late fourteenth century terma.

 

Tonpa Shenrab is a terma character, not an actual historical character.

Edited August 4, 2013 by alwayson

[idiot_stimpy]

Does anyone even read the books I link to?

 

The whole story of Bon's "history" is a late fourteenth century terma.

 

Sorry my book shelf can only hold so many. I do try and read the google books link that you post.

 

I can't really hold any position as I was not there at the time.

[Tibetan_Ice]

How many times have we covered this?

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/26705-theravada-and-mahayana/

 

That's terma history, not actual history.

 

I prefer to believe the words of enlightened masters rather than scholars or historians.

[RongzomFan]

Isn't it hilarious? Of course I'm not, sif you need to ask, rofl.

 

If you are not even Buddhist, why did you make the following statement:

 

"Anyone who calls themselves a buddhist has a lot to learn about Buddhism."

[RongzomFan]

I prefer to believe the words of enlightened masters rather than scholars or historians.

 

There is no conflict between the two.

 

You are free to take terma history as actual. But I don't.

[Tibetan_Ice]

Greetings..

 

 

 

No, you cannot see where i'm coming from.. you are still attached to beliefs and depend on dead words.. i'm interested in what is actually happening, and you've demonstrated no interest in that, yet...

 

No.. still your own mind and prove it to yourself.. i've shared what i intended to share, and you've stated your conditioned biases..

 

Yes, i do know what stillness is.. it's 'still', even in the midst of chaos..

 

No, no flashbacks.. and, my experience with "energetics" is not something to be 'evaluated' by you or for you.. you need to do your own work..

 

Other beings or planes?? tell us more about this belief..

 

How can i show you anything, you already believe you know it all, and you see Life through the lens of your beliefs.. 'you' have to 'let it go', there's nothing i can do for you.. it's amazing what can be seen when you're not looking 'for something', just look and see what 'is'.. it is apparent that you find my sharing to be of value, you are interested enough to rummage through past posts and other threads,.. relax, my words are simple and non-threatening, my only intention is clarity,. nothing i say is true because i say it, it only becomes 'true' if you 'believe' it is.. stop 'believing', and pay attention.. it's not important that my words be 'true', it's important that my words inspire others to see/experience clarity for themselves, rather than to be told, conditioned, or coerced into believing what others believe..

 

Still the mind and see/experience what 'is', rather than what you think or believe 'is'..

 

Be well..

 

I can see there is no point in talking to you. A still mind does not give insight, which is what is needed to liberate. Shamatha has a second step, that of vipassana (insight). There is a reason why most traditions distinguish between simply stilling the mind and self-inquiry. You don't seem to distinguish between the two. No point in talking to you, you don't have the same language or conceptual framework, nor are you willing to hold your experience out to the light of day.

 

 

[RongzomFan]

What has been the result of them applying this to their spirits? Tibet has been destroyed and their protector spirits couldn't do anything to stop it. While many of the countries which have been subjected to Christian spirits and the spirit of Jesus prosper without any tantric oaths

 

Tibet was invaded to return Buddhadharma to India. That's my understanding atleast. I think everyone has a different opinion on why Tibet was invaded.

[RongzomFan]

So the Tibetans gets to pick and choose which spirits are good, but for some reason all of the ones the New Age guys use are evil or trickster, why? because some Tibetan said so.

 

New Age spirits could be useful, if they were subjugated by a tantric.

[RongzomFan]

Very grateful for you posting the link to The sirens call of the hungry ghost book.

 

Joe Fisher came to the conclusion that "spirit guides" were hungry ghosts from Buddhism, without even being Buddhist.

[RongzomFan]

What exactly do you think that Dudjom Lingpa was doing when he "received these teachings in visionary dialog with fourteen enlightened beings, including Avalokiteshvara, Vajrapani, Lonchengpa, and Sahara" if he wasn't channeling?

 

A terton's own wisdom manifests as Buddhas.

[idiot_stimpy]

Joe Fisher came to the conclusion that "spirit guides" were hungry ghosts from Buddhism, without even being Buddhist.

 

 

The sad thing is, Joe Fisher committed suicide.

 

 

 

Beware of Angels is another book telling a similar story but from a Christian viewpoint.

 

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=vG2aM0r-9KgC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

 

 

his book is a true account of a prayer group that was deceived by demons. they were true sincere christians that were visited by angels that told them they wre chosen of God, and all sorts of other things that stroked their ego. they figured that because these beings were beautiful and said they wre from God, that they MUST be from God. long story short, the demons little by little snuck in a little like mixed in a world of truth. kind of like giving a thirsty person a big glass of water with a little drop of cyanide until the person dies.

over a period od time the demons posing as angels from God told them that they had to steal from people who were demon possessed (which the demons called totaled) for the good of mankind. this went on and and the demons told them to do increasingly evil things until they eventually killed people. then they realized they wre being fooled by the demons.

[RongzomFan]

The sad thing is, Joe Fisher committed suicide.

 

 

He took the New Age path all the way to its conclusion.

[nine tailed fox]

imagine abraham hicks , a hungry ghost hahahaha

 

anyway i really also dont buy the idea of new age that we plan our lives

 

according to new age WISDOM

 

every soul sits across a table and decide what they are gonna become in their next life and make contracts with other souls about their roles and interference in their lives

 

very pathetic idea

 

the main problem with new age is

 

"THEY THINK EVERYTHING IS RELATIVE"

 

this reality is not really relative but mixture of relative and absolute

 

for example your chakras are not relative but absolute but yeah your life experiences are relative to your mindset and your reality filters

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

I can see there is no point in talking to you. A still mind does not give insight, which is what is needed to liberate. Shamatha has a second step, that of vipassana (insight). There is a reason why most traditions distinguish between simply stilling the mind and self-inquiry. You don't seem to distinguish between the two. No point in talking to you, you don't have the same language or conceptual framework, nor are you willing to hold your experience out to the light of day.

 

 

 

My experience is simple.. stop attaching to beliefs, still the mind.. let go of your "same language and conceptual framework", that is the obstacle to you and i discussing the same experience productively.. you are insisting that what you experience fit into a preconceived model (conceptual framework).. the 'still mind' allows insights to be experienced without the stain of beliefs and conceptual frameworks, the still mind reveals the relationship between insight and Life, rather than the active mind's belief that it can force insight into its belief models.. liberation is not dependent on 'insight', though insight can be useful.. liberation is dependent on letting go of all beliefs and knowings, and if insight reveals that actuality, cool..

 

Be well..

[Seeker of Wisdom]

So this whole channelling issue that's come up:

 

*An advanced person can receive clear channels with helpful entities because their mind is on the entity's level.

 

*New Age channellers can access unhelpful entities from the Desire Realm and not even with reliable clarity, and are probably often not even doing that but spewing rubbish from their own subconscious.

 

Basically, I will trust a channeller if they have at least achieved shamatha, because that means they have a clear enough mind to actually do this sort of thing properly. How many New Age channellers have achieved shamatha?

 

Anyone who believes in New Age channellers should be asking themselves why nothing happened in 2012 like they promised. Yeah, tell yourself large-scale ascension is a gradual thing for the next few years... don't hold your breath!

 

What makes all these random people with no meaningful cultivation qualified to contact beings with meaningful cultivation, and receive messages without them being warped by the crud swirling in the channeller's mind?

[teknix]

If you are not even Buddhist, why did you make the following statement:

 

"Anyone who calls themselves a buddhist has a lot to learn about Buddhism."

 

Evidently you should revisit anatta Mr. Buddhist.

[teknix]

So this whole channelling issue that's come up:

 

*An advanced person can receive clear channels with helpful entities because their mind is on the entity's level.

 

*New Age channellers can access unhelpful entities from the Desire Realm and not even with reliable clarity, and are probably often not even doing that but spewing rubbish from their own subconscious.

 

Basically, I will trust a channeller if they have at least achieved shamatha, because that means they have a clear enough mind to actually do this sort of thing properly. How many New Age channellers have achieved shamatha?

 

Anyone who believes in New Age channellers should be asking themselves why nothing happened in 2012 like they promised. Yeah, tell yourself large-scale ascension is a gradual thing for the next few years... don't hold your breath!

 

What makes all these random people with no meaningful cultivation qualified to contact beings with meaningful cultivation, and receive messages without them being warped by the crud swirling in the channeller's mind?

 

Both sides are full of shit imo. I'll devour all your entities, they are all weak and depend on your life-force to sustain themselves.

Edited August 5, 2013 by teknix

[Jetsun]

I never used to believe in the whole age of Aquarius new age coming time stuff but I have noticed that many teachers have talked about the changes they have seen in recent years. Ya Mu has mentioned it on this site how there is no difference with the sensitivity between males and females now with his students when there used to be 5-10 years ago, there has been an acceleration. Adyashanti describes how many more of his students are going through genuine awakenings now when it was rare 10 years ago and you can witness this for yourself if you listen to his podcasts and the quality and nature of the questions being asked him now compared to a few years ago. In other traditions people are saying the same thing, teachers from many different traditions are reporting increasing consciousness and awakenings, there are new non dual teachers and groups emerging all of the time and even the New York times and BBC are doing features on meditation these days and esoteric literature is in all the book shops.

 

Teachers are doing initiations on a huge scale now, hundreds of thousands have had the Kalachakra initiation across the globe and other Tibetan initiations once only reserved for a small select group of people are being handed out, and hundreds of thousands have had darshan from teachers like Mother Meera and Amma as well as many others, and thousands travel each year to Southern America to be transformed by Ayahuasca that there are now hundreds of shamanic healing centres. All this work is going on on a scale never seen before in history and all this energy is being liberated while the internet with Skype and YouTube etc is exposing this knowledge and power to the masses like never before. Do you not think all this going on has an effect on the consciousness of the planet? People just need to open their eyes to what is going on around them and get involved.

[teknix]

What's that have to do with spirits and entities and chenneling? If anything it's evidence for evolution.

Edited August 5, 2013 by teknix

[Jetsun]

What's that have to do with spirits and entities and chenneling? If anything it's evidence for evolution.

Its about the New Age in general

 

The New Age isn't just about chanelling and law of attraction, its about a New Age for mankind

[teknix]

How would you most concisely define new age?

[teknix]

I personally haven't associated new age with channeling and spirits before this thread.

[C T]

I never used to believe in the whole age of Aquarius new age coming time stuff but I have noticed that many teachers have talked about the changes they have seen in recent years. Ya Mu has mentioned it on this site how there is no difference with the sensitivity between males and females now with his students when there used to be 5-10 years ago, there has been an acceleration. Adyashanti describes how many more of his students are going through genuine awakenings now when it was rare 10 years ago and you can witness this for yourself if you listen to his podcasts and the quality and nature of the questions being asked him now compared to a few years ago. In other traditions people are saying the same thing, teachers from many different traditions are reporting increasing consciousness and awakenings, there are new non dual teachers and groups emerging all of the time and even the New York times and BBC are doing features on meditation these days and esoteric literature is in all the book shops.

 

Teachers are doing initiations on a huge scale now, hundreds of thousands have had the Kalachakra initiation across the globe and other Tibetan initiations once only reserved for a small select group of people are being handed out, and hundreds of thousands have had darshan from teachers like Mother Meera and Amma as well as many others, and thousands travel each year to Southern America to be transformed by Ayahuasca that there are now hundreds of shamanic healing centres. All this work is going on on a scale never seen before in history and all this energy is being liberated while the internet with Skype and YouTube etc is exposing this knowledge and power to the masses like never before. Do you not think all this going on has an effect on the consciousness of the planet? People just need to open their eyes to what is going on around them and get involved.

Could be a sign of global desperation too.

 

Such large-scale spiritual fare does not necessarily augur well. It might, but the forecast is not looking rosy.