Bias against New Age

[rene]

He he he, there is no reality without side-walls. We all live in a more or less convivial solipsism.

 

I am sure that New Age must be effective since a lot of people are consumers for what New Age is selling.

 

True that. And somes' side-walls be thinner than others'. (-:

[xor]

My problem with New Age is that they make alot of claims that turn out to be not true. I don't see any evidence of humanity advancing collectively toward enlightenment or even better times.

[nine tailed fox]

see lets get it straight

 

we have two sides

 

1. new age teaching

 

they say its all belief

 

there is no special technique , no energy

 

basically nothing, but its all just a matter of belief

 

all the chi kung, nei kung, kundalini you do, its all just some random movements to make you believe that you are advancing spiritually

 

2. Traditionalist

 

traditionalists say there are certain patterns, certain energies, certain movements which you can use to advance spiritually

 

there is a systemetic process for awakeining, if you perform some special techniques right, you will see its affects regardless of your belief

 

 

now i am posting this from an open mind attitude, may be new agers are right or may be traditionalists are right

 

so how can we decide ?

 

3. who can really answer this question

 

a perfectly enlightened person

 

thats it

 

only a person who can see through the veil of reality and see whats the core of this reality can impartially answer this question

 

and i doubt anybody here is perfectly enlightened

 

i will surely ask this question to such a person of i will find one, and i will surely post here

 

otherwise its just a debate which has no end

[C T]

I am sure that New Age must be effective since a lot of people are consumers for what New Age is selling.

Yup, its a massive industry... evolving and churning non-stop, from sustainable crops, fair trade to shoes made of hemp. And these stuff have become more expensive than what one can buy conventionally from the local stores!! Amazing, what shrewd marketing can do.

 

Soon the prospect of a new-age Wall Street with its own Commodity Trading, hemp shoes, and all things alternative may become as real as grandma's apple pie. Think global shift and what this really really means....

 

Some alternative brothers and sisters are already licking their lips.

[C T]

yes ... but also the philosophers stone ... or to put it Buddhist-wise your liberation is possible because you have Buddha-nature ... all else, your master, your deity ... whatever, reflects this back to you ... or to put it another way you look with two eyes. With one eye you see your teacher is an ordinary being who does ordinary things but with the other eye you recognise his shining perfection ... which is your shining perfection too. If you ask fro blessings from the ordinary side you get ordinary blessings, if you ask from the other side you get true blessings ....

i really like this! _/\_

[Stosh]

Is it the wiser one who hates or is hated?

Unreal real spirituality ?

Imperfect enlightenment?

Pearls before swine?

 

Wheres the lightswitch at?

Edited July 28, 2013 by Stosh

[Jetsun]

I would be careful what you dismiss out of preconceived prejudice, keep an open mind and you can find some diamonds within the dirt. That is my experience with the new age anyway.

 

Who knows what is going to emerge out of the emptiness and how the most relevant teaching for our time is going to express itself? The constant changing nature of the world means that many of the old paths can very easily become degraded archaic relics.

[Thunder_Gooch]

Sure there are tons of nuggets of wisdom and great philosophies to be found everywhere.

 

Is the point of our lives to keep ourselves entertained with collecting new nuggets of wisdom till we die however?

 

Or is there something fundamentally wrong about the situation we find ourselves in?

 

If you reflect on it and come to the conclusion you are not happy about the situation you are in, then you have to actually find some method to change the situation you are in. This method has to actually do something as well, it can't be just more newage gobbledygook.

 

For many people this isn't a concern as they make up stories to help divorce themselves from the reality of the situation.

 

The biggest problem I have with all this, if I believe x, then y occurs is the magical thinking.

 

What you believe doesn't matter to reality. You can believe you can jump from a plane at 75,000 feet without a parachute hit the ground feet first and walk away, no amount of belief has anything to do with reality however.

 

I meet many newagers who believe, ooh "if I just charge my crystals in spring water under the new goddess moon", or "if I just recite this spell" or "draw this sigil or seal", and "chant this incantation", or "brew this potion", or "do this ritual", or whatever then "I will be able to change reality in some meaningful way".

 

That is just make believe newage magical thinking.

 

Reality doesn't work like that, never has and never will.

 

The real masters who actually get real results don't believe anything about the situation, they just observe what is. They spend their lives in meditation to store, extract, and fuse together real and tangible energies in the environment. This is more akin to science and technology, than it is a belief system. The results they get are obvious and not founded in belief or faith.

 

 

Newage is about believing things, I don't like newage because I want hands on practices grounded in reality, that actually do something, a spiritual science and technology with no faith required.

 

 

 

I would be careful what you dismiss out of preconceived prejudice, keep an open mind and you can find some diamonds within the dirt. That is my experience with the new age anyway.

 

Who knows what is going to emerge out of the emptiness and how the most relevant teaching for our time is going to express itself? The constant changing nature of the world means that many of the old paths can very easily become degraded archaic relics.

Edited July 28, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[Jetsun]

Sure there are tons of nuggets of wisdom and great philosophies to be found everywhere.

 

Is the point of our lives to keep ourselves entertained with collecting new nuggets of wisdom till we die however?

 

Or is there something fundamentally wrong about the situation we find ourselves in?

 

If you reflect on it and come to the conclusion you are not happy about the situation you are in, then you have to actually find some method to change the situation you are in. This method has to actually do something as well, it can't be just more newage gobbledygook.

 

For many people this isn't a concern as they make up stories to help divorce themselves from the reality of the situation.

 

The biggest problem I have with all this, if I believe x, then y occurs is the magical thinking.

 

What you believe doesn't matter to reality. You can believe you can jump from a plane at 75,000 feet without a parachute hit the ground feet first and walk away, no amount of belief has anything to do with reality however.

 

I meet many newagers who believe, ooh "if I just charge my crystals in spring water under the new goddess moon", or "if I just recite this spell" or "draw this sigil or seal", and "chant this incantation", or "brew this potion", or "do this ritual", or whatever then "I will be able to change reality in some meaningful way".

 

That is just make believe newage magical thinking.

 

Reality doesn't work like that, never has and never will.

 

The real masters who actually get real results don't believe anything about the situation, they just observe what is. They spend their lives in meditation to store, extract, and fuse together real and tangible energies in the environment. This is more akin to science and technology, than it is a belief system. The results they get are obvious and not founded in belief or faith.

 

 

Newage is about believing things, I don't like newage because I want hands on practices grounded in reality, that actually do something, a spiritual science and technology with no faith required.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not talking about nuggets of wisdom and philosophy, i'm talking about teachers who have real realisations and awakenings into non-duality and healers who would blow your mind. If you have a preconceived belief that they don't exist and absolutely nothing comes from anything which approaches a new age approach then you are unlikely to come across them and would probably dismiss them out of hand without even giving them a chance in order to affirm that your beliefs are correct. I'm not saying there isn't a lot of useless bullshit out there, most of it probably is, but unless you have an open beginners mind you are only likely to find what you have already decided exists.

[Jainarayan]

The concept of "New Age" is a very broad church indeed and means many, many different things to many, many different people.

Unfortunately it has now become a term, almost of abuse, to represent that which is silly and airy-fairy.

 

I'm inclined to agree. I'm probably off the mark, but New Age represents to me in part, and this is only my perhaps misconception of it, a co-opting of eastern beliefs and practices. I envision dim candle-lit rooms filled with incense smoke, strains of sitar music, and chanting om, surrounded by crystals and trying to get "in tune" with the universe, other planes of existence and the ākāśa, when the practitioner has no conception what it means to chant om or any of those other practices.I think it takes bonafide beliefs, puts them into a blender and comes out with the most god-awful concotion.

[Thunder_Gooch]

I'd ask these teachers to step up to the bat and agree to scientific and medical investigation.

 

How exactly am I supposed to know they aren't just another newage fruit bat otherwise?

 

Serious question.

 

 

I'm not talking about nuggets of wisdom and philosophy, i'm talking about teachers who have real realisations and awakenings into non-duality and healers who would blow your mind. If you have a preconceived belief that they don't exist and absolutely nothing comes from anything which approaches a new age approach then you are unlikely to come across them and would probably dismiss them out of hand without even giving them a chance in order to affirm that your beliefs are correct. I'm not saying there isn't a lot of useless bullshit out there, most of it probably is, but unless you have an open beginners mind you are only likely to find what you have already decided exists.

Edited July 28, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[Tibetan_Ice]

Sure there are tons of nuggets of wisdom and great philosophies to be found everywhere.

 

Is the point of our lives to keep ourselves entertained with collecting new nuggets of wisdom till we die however?

 

Or is there something fundamentally wrong about the situation we find ourselves in?

 

If you reflect on it and come to the conclusion you are not happy about the situation you are in, then you have to actually find some method to change the situation you are in. This method has to actually do something as well, it can't be just more newage gobbledygook.

 

For many people this isn't a concern as they make up stories to help divorce themselves from the reality of the situation.

 

The biggest problem I have with all this, if I believe x, then y occurs is the magical thinking.

 

What you believe doesn't matter to reality. You can believe you can jump from a plane at 75,000 feet without a parachute hit the ground feet first and walk away, no amount of belief has anything to do with reality however.

 

I meet many newagers who believe, ooh "if I just charge my crystals in spring water under the new goddess moon", or "if I just recite this spell" or "draw this sigil or seal", and "chant this incantation", or "brew this potion", or "do this ritual", or whatever then "I will be able to change reality in some meaningful way".

 

That is just make believe newage magical thinking.

 

Reality doesn't work like that, never has and never will.

 

The real masters who actually get real results don't believe anything about the situation, they just observe what is. They spend their lives in meditation to store, extract, and fuse together real and tangible energies in the environment. This is more akin to science and technology, than it is a belief system. The results they get are obvious and not founded in belief or faith.

 

 

Newage is about believing things, I don't like newage because I want hands on practices grounded in reality, that actually do something, a spiritual science and technology with no faith required.

 

 

 

 

Hi MPG

You are definately biased towards the term "new age" and your bias, based on the idea that belief is not all, is where the problem is arising. Belief is all. Mind is all. New Age is a distilation of age-old principles which has a solid foundation.

 

For example, the only reason you can't walk through walls is because your belief system is stopping you. Your karma is stopping you. The principle of faking it until you make it is a valid one. Don't believe me? Watch this series of Buddhist videos and you will see that the first step to walking through walls is convincing yourself that you can do it. The principle is older than "New Age".

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/27432-yangti-visualisation-retreat-gyalwang-drukpa/

 

His Holiness the Gyalwang Drukpa gave teaching on a terma revealed by one of the previous lives of Kyabje Trulshik Rinpoche - "Yangti Guru Padmasambhava".

 

He speaks of many miracles.

 

In the second video, Gyalwang Drukpa declares that his father left his footprint in stone, and even painted pictures into stone with his finger. He says that many accomplished practitioners demonstrate their abilities in order to help their students overcome the solidity of their own beliefs.

 

His interpretation of sambhogakaya is a little different from what I've read before: He says that the sambhogakaya is related to sound (not light).

 

The other very interesting thing that he teaches is that in order to walk through solid pillars, one must first start by adopting the correct view with the use of imagination and practice that.

 

He says that the reason why we normally can't walk through solid pillars is because we are too attached to the 'solidity' of the pillar.

 

 

Further, if you were to examine the Huna religion, one of the oldest religions from Polynesia, you would see that the use of props and ritual is needed in order to convince the 'lower self' to communicate with the "higher self". If you can't convince the 'lower self" through concrete props and rituals, the healings won't happen. These are not New Age principles, but they were adopted by New Age..

 

http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Science-Behind-Miracles-ebook/dp/B005FM7O7K

 

 

You said : "Reality doesn't work like that, never has and never will."

 

Er, well, yes.. reality works exactly like that, and it doesn't stop acting like that just because you believe it doesn't.

 

There is an interesting bit of text in the book called "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning" by the Ninth Karmapa. In it he says:

http://www.amazon.com/Ninth-Karmapas-Ocean-Definitive-Meaning/dp/155939370X/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

 

THE MAHASIDDHA NAROPA predicted to Lord Marpa, “Son, just as lion cubs do, the disciples will surpass the guru.” We understand this to have been a prediction of the flourishing and the increase in clarity of these mahamudra instructions over time. The original source of these instructions was the instructions of the Indian mahasiddhas. But they taught somewhat cryptically through songs. Over time, generation after generation, these instructions have been progressively clarified. This progressive clarification, which has caused these instructions to become more and more effective, has in each case and in each generation been based upon practical experience and realization of the path. At present, the guidance texts that we use for mahamudra instruction and practice are the three books on mahamudra by the Ninth Gyalwang Karmapa, Wangchuk Dorje, of which the longest is our present text, The Ocean of Definitive Meaning. What is taught in this book is essentially the same thing that is taught in the original dohas of the mahasiddhas. However, it is taught in a very precise, clear, accessible, and gradual way, so that there is all the instruction that one needs from the very beginning. It teaches how a beginner can start the path through the practice of tranquility, what kinds of experiences are likely to arise and what needs to be done about them, and then how gradually to introduce oneself to and begin the practice of insight. These detailed instructions are very helpful in practice; there is no doubt about this whatsoever. It has been proven over time that this particular system of instruction is extraordinarily beneficial.

Rinpoche, Khenchen Thrangu; Namgyal, Lama Tashi (2011-04-01). The Ninth Karmapa's Ocean of Definitive Meaning (p. 67). Shambhala Publications. Kindle Edition.

 

The point here is that 'older' does not necessarily mean that it is 'better'. The refinement of principles by successive generations has led to some of the truths in the New Age ideologies too.

 

If you want concrete real experience, find an authentic Reiki master to do a full body crystal layout on you. Experience it for yourself. Then try to tell me that it's a bunch of hooey..

 

Disclaimer: There are authentics and fakes in every religion/belief system/conglomerate of conceptual data. It is a waste of time to put a label on something and then dismiss the whole package, because you will be throwing out the nuggets of gold with the gravel.

 

TI

[Jetsun]

 

 

How exactly am I supposed to know they aren't just another newage fruit bat otherwise?

 

Serious question.

 

 

 

Speak to them, be open to them and see what they show you and how you feel and trust your own personal experience and intuition. See if they can bring others to the same realisations which they have had.

 

If you are waiting for a scientist to authorise your experience then you might be waiting your entire life while what you really need for growth is constantly passing right under your nose.

[Thunder_Gooch]

High Tibetan Ice!

 

Thanks for illuminating reply.

 

I'd like to offer you $100.00 USD to film yourself jumping from an airplane and believing that you can land feet first without injury from 75,000 feet without opening your parachute.

 

This should be easy once you communicate with your lower and higher selves and believe that it is possible.

 

We shall test out your reasoning first hand!

 

 

Hi MPG

You are definately biased towards the term "new age" and your bias, based on the idea that belief is not all, is where the problem is arising. Belief is all. Mind is all. New Age is a distilation of age-old principles which has a solid foundation.

 

For example, the only reason you can't walk through walls is because your belief system is stopping you. Your karma is stopping you. The principle of faking it until you make it is a valid one. Don't believe me? Watch this series of Buddhist videos and you will see that the first step to walking through walls is convincing yourself that you can do it. The principle is older than "New Age".

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/27432-yangti-visualisation-retreat-gyalwang-drukpa/

 

 

 

Further, if you were to examine the Huna religion, one of the oldest religions from Polynesia, you would see that the use of props and ritual is needed in order to convince the 'lower self' to communicate with the "higher self". If you can't convince the 'lower self" through concrete props and rituals, the healings won't happen. These are not New Age principles, but they were adopted by New Age..

 

http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Science-Behind-Miracles-ebook/dp/B005FM7O7K

 

 

You said : "Reality doesn't work like that, never has and never will."

 

Er, well, yes.. reality works exactly like that, and it doesn't stop acting like that just because you believe it doesn't.

 

There is an interesting bit of text in the book called "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning" by the Ninth Karmapa. In it he says:

http://www.amazon.com/Ninth-Karmapas-Ocean-Definitive-Meaning/dp/155939370X/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

 

 

 

The point here is that 'older' does not necessarily mean that it is 'better'. The refinement of principles by successive generations has led to some of the truths in the New Age ideologies too.

 

If you want concrete real experience, find an authentic Reiki master to do a full body crystal layout on you. Experience it for yourself. Then try to tell me that it's a bunch of hooey..

 

Disclaimer: There are authentics and fakes in every religion/belief system/conglomerate of conceptual data. It is a waste of time to put a label on something and then dismiss the whole package, because you will be throwing out the nuggets of gold with the gravel.

 

TI

[Thunder_Gooch]

How does a realization help you change the situation you are in?

 

Does me realizing the earth is round and revolving around the sun instead of the old paradigm of a flat earth and geocentric model in anyway change the reality of the situation I am in as a living being?

 

Getting a good vibe from a newage teacher isn't enough for me, I want to see them step up to the bat and allow themselves to be investigated by scientists and medical doctors. Wim Hof, and John Chang have had the guts to do so among others. It isn't unreasonable to ask a teacher to do this.

 

Yes eventually science and technology may offer a method to ascension, but not likely within my life time, and there is always the possibility of a technological dystopia instead of a utopia.

 

 

Speak to them, be open to them and see what they show you and how you feel and trust your own personal experience and intuition. See if they can bring others to the same realisations which they have had.

 

If you are waiting for a scientist to authorise your experience then you might be waiting your entire life while what you really need for growth is constantly passing right under your nose.

Edited July 28, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[Thunder_Gooch]

Just in case you missed the sarcasm in my last post, don't jump out of an air plane and expect to land safely because believing will make it true.

 

What you believe about reality in no way affects how reality behaves or actually is.

 

Reality exists independent from what you believe about it.

 

The paradigm you espouse is pure delusion, and people who hold such beliefs are the reason no one will ever take real schools and real masters seriously.

 

I see no point in us ever having any discussion on this forum in public or private ever again.

 

Best wishes on your path.

Hi MPG

You are definately biased towards the term "new age" and your bias, based on the idea that belief is not all, is where the problem is arising. Belief is all. Mind is all. New Age is a distilation of age-old principles which has a solid foundation.

 

For example, the only reason you can't walk through walls is because your belief system is stopping you. Your karma is stopping you. The principle of faking it until you make it is a valid one. Don't believe me? Watch this series of Buddhist videos and you will see that the first step to walking through walls is convincing yourself that you can do it. The principle is older than "New Age".

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/27432-yangti-visualisation-retreat-gyalwang-drukpa/

 

 

 

Further, if you were to examine the Huna religion, one of the oldest religions from Polynesia, you would see that the use of props and ritual is needed in order to convince the 'lower self' to communicate with the "higher self". If you can't convince the 'lower self" through concrete props and rituals, the healings won't happen. These are not New Age principles, but they were adopted by New Age..

 

http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Science-Behind-Miracles-ebook/dp/B005FM7O7K

 

 

You said : "Reality doesn't work like that, never has and never will."

 

Er, well, yes.. reality works exactly like that, and it doesn't stop acting like that just because you believe it doesn't.

 

There is an interesting bit of text in the book called "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning" by the Ninth Karmapa. In it he says:

http://www.amazon.com/Ninth-Karmapas-Ocean-Definitive-Meaning/dp/155939370X/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

 

 

 

The point here is that 'older' does not necessarily mean that it is 'better'. The refinement of principles by successive generations has led to some of the truths in the New Age ideologies too.

 

If you want concrete real experience, find an authentic Reiki master to do a full body crystal layout on you. Experience it for yourself. Then try to tell me that it's a bunch of hooey..

 

Disclaimer: There are authentics and fakes in every religion/belief system/conglomerate of conceptual data. It is a waste of time to put a label on something and then dismiss the whole package, because you will be throwing out the nuggets of gold with the gravel.

 

TI

Edited July 28, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[Jetsun]

How does a realization help you change the situation you are in?

 

Does me realizing the earth is round and revolving around the sun instead of the old paradigm of a flat earth and geocentric model in anyway change the reality of the situation I am in as a living being?

 

Yes eventually science and technology may offer a method to ascension, but not likely within my life time, and there is always the possibility of a technological dystopia instead of a utopia.

 

 

 

Realisation involving the issue of the fundamental identity of who you are can help you cut out all the extra suffering we cause ourselves and others by misperceiving who we are. It is a fundamental shift of the ground of your being away from your own beliefs of reality into a direct perception. Non-dual realisation solves most of the important questions we have such as death, birth, truth, purpose of life, the majority of fears and insecurities which we dwell on most of the day.

[Thunder_Gooch]

Jetsun,

Here is the crux of the issue. Ponder this scenario.

 

There is a huge comet that will impact the earth in 2500 years. It's the dark ages, and the telescope is forbidden by the church as instrument of the devil.

People make all sorts of myths about what the comet is, but none of them are true.

One man observing via telescope realizes the ultimate nature of the situation, that the earth is a planet, not a flat plane, that it revolves around the sun, and the comet as great mass that will impact the earth and cause much death and destruction.

He among the millions is awake to the true reality of the situation, yet this knowledge gives him no ability to change reality even though everyone else is delusional.

 

Realizing the truth of nonduality doesn't grant you the ability to reshape reality as you desire, that takes a whole other level of accomplishment.

 

If you realize the truth that what you experience and what you are are one in the same, that grants you no ability to stop the pain and death of your physical body, nor does it grant you reprieve from rebirth into a world like this as some other person or organism.

 

 

 

 

Realisation involving the issue of the fundamental identity of who you are can help you cut out all the extra suffering we cause ourselves and others by misperceiving who we are. It is a fundamental shift of the ground of your being away from your own beliefs of reality into a direct perception. Non-dual realisation solves most of the important questions we have such as death, birth, truth, purpose of life, the majority of fears and insecurities which we dwell on most of the day.

[Jetsun]

 

 

 

Realizing the truth of nonduality doesn't grant you the ability to reshape reality as you desire, that takes a whole other level of accomplishment.

 

No it doesn't do that, rather you make peace with reality, you stop fighting it and wishing it was different and thus you gain peace and flow.

 

 

If you realize the truth that what you experience and what you are are one in the same, that grants you no ability to stop the pain and death of your physical body, nor does it grant you reprieve from rebirth into a world like this as some other person or organism.

 

 

Yes your body will still die and there might be pain, yet there wont be all the extra stuff that most people add on to the situation like "I don't deserve this" "I wish I could live longer" "I still have so much i need to do" etc etc. They say that those who completely accept their death it can be quite beautiful, which is the same with most of life, it is the resistance and drag our minds put onto our experiences by believing it should be different than what it is which causes the majority of our suffering. So you start saying yes to life instead of no.

 

If there was a comet coming to the earth and you completely accept your fate then there is no real problem, you are facing the journey of your death with eyes open without resistance, but if instead you spend your time cursing god or crying about the unfairness of it all then your mind has added a whole load of more unnecessary suffering onto your inevitable fate because of the assumption that the mind thinks it knows what should be, that it knows better than god.

[Thunder_Gooch]

Then what you describe has no other purpose than a psychological opiate, the same as virtually every other religious belief.

 

It makes you ok with, and anesthetizes you to the pain of what's coming, gives you a belief to bite down on.

 

There are beings who have developed technology to actually break free of this cycle, instead of just making themselves ok with it.

 

 

No it doesn't do that, rather you make peace with reality, you stop fighting it and wishing it was different and thus you gain peace and flow.

 

 

 

 

Yes your body will still die and there might be pain, yet there wont be all the extra stuff that most people add on to the situation like "I don't deserve this" "I wish I could live longer" "I still have so much i need to do" etc etc. They say that those who completely accept their death it can be quite beautiful, which is the same with most of life, it is the resistance and drag our minds put onto our experiences by believing it should be different than what it is which causes the majority of our suffering. So you start saying yes to life instead of no.

 

If there was a comet coming to the earth and you completely accept your fate then there is no real problem, you are facing the journey of your death with eyes open without resistance, but if instead you spend your time cursing god or crying about the unfairness of it all then your mind has added a whole load of more unnecessary suffering onto your inevitable fate because of the assumption that the mind thinks it knows what should be, that it knows better than god.

Edited July 28, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[Ish]

Then what you describe has no other purpose than a psychological opiate, the same as virtually every other religious belief.

 

It makes you ok with, and anesthetizes you to the pain of what's coming, gives you a belief to bite down on.

 

There are beings who have developed technology to actually break free of this cycle, instead of just making themselves ok with it.

 

A large point of the Buddhas teaching is to free you from the cycle of death and rebirth.

Even in theravada teaching they are quite clear that once you become an Arahat you won't reincarnate again.

 

This doesn't even touch on the results of the other vehicles such as Mahayana and Vajrayana...

[Jetsun]

Then what you describe has no other purpose than a psychological opiate, the same as virtually every other religious belief.

 

It makes you ok with, and anesthetizes you to the pain of what's coming, gives you a belief to bite down on.

 

There are beings who have developed technology to actually break free of this cycle, instead of just making themselves ok with it.

 

No you don't understand its the opposite of an opiate, it is the letting go of all the identity you have with the beliefs which the mind creates around what happens in your life, so you are facing up to your life directly without the beliefs of the mind trying to alter life to something better.

[Thunder_Gooch]

Jetsun,

 

I am done arguing. I understand perfectly fine what it is, and I think deep down you do as well.

I didn't come here to play make believe, or debate such silliness.

 

Best of luck on your path.

 

 

No you don't understand its the opposite of an opiate, it is the letting go of all the identity you have with the beliefs which the mind creates around what happens in your life, so you are facing up to your life directly without the beliefs of the mind trying to alter life to something better.

[Thunder_Gooch]

Maybe at one point that's what Buddhism was about, they certainly offer no such method publicly in a simple and concise road-map style system in the present day.

 

There are millions of times more followers of the Buddhist path than of neigong, yet for all the people trying I see no real success towards this goal.

 

I hear rumors of monks attaining rainbow body, but no evidence of this, and even if evidence existed, no further evidence that rebirth ended as a result of this phenomenon.

 

 

 

A large point of the Buddhas teaching is to free you from the cycle of death and rebirth.

Even in theravada teaching they are quite clear that once you become an Arahat you won't reincarnate again.

 

This doesn't even touch on the results of the other vehicles such as Mahayana and Vajrayana...

[Jetsun]

Jetsun,

 

I am done arguing. I understand perfectly fine what it is, and I think deep down you do as well.

I didn't come here to play make believe, or debate such silliness.

 

Best of luck on your path.

 

 

I didn't think we were particularly arguing, but I am completely positive I am not talking about a soporific opiate similar to religious beliefs, I am talking about realising the consciousness which is beyond beliefs altogether which is perfectly at peace with whatever happens. This is what most genuine Buddhist paths are pointing at and also what new age teachers like Byron Katie are directing people towards