Jinye Huandan Yinzheng Tu in English?

[Taiji Bum]

Anybody know where I can find this in English?

http://www.daoiststudies.org/daozang/daozang.php?text=151

[Yen Hui]

This is just a thought, but perhaps the English title for this document might elicit a slightly better response.

[Taiji Bum]

This is just a thought, but perhaps the English title for this document might elicit a slightly better response.

See now thats the reason I need it in English. Even just the title. One of the pictures from it was used on the cover of Eva Wongs HOLDING YIN, EMBRACING YANG book. She may have actually translated it but since I dont know what "jinye huandan yinzheng tu" says, who knows?

[Smile]

"Sealed Verification of the Golden Elixir of the Reported Cinnabar"

[Taiji Bum]

"Sealed Verification of the Golden Elixir of the Reported Cinnabar"

Wow, thanks. Now I just have to figure a good paraphrase for that so I can do some googling. Do you have a dictionary? Are you Chinese? Or are you just smarter than me? All three?

[Smile]

read HERE

It's going to be very hard to find a translation. I would say, ask T. Cleary or other translators who deal with such texts if it was translated, and if not, ask how much it would cost to do so. You need someone who specializes in anscient taoist/Buddhist spiritual texts- a regualar translation will be worthless.

[Smile]

Also, if it's true that Zhang Boduan who wrote it, then you should read his work Chapters on Awakening to the Real

 

More on Zhang Boduan

[Taiji Bum]

Dang! That scroll is famous! I have emailed all the Daoist "experts" (not many) on the internet I could find. I couldn't find Thomas Cleary but I think we have established that my web fu is weak.

 

I think its funny that when the Chinese were building suspension bridges and mapping the heavens Europeans were living in caves. But this scroll and another map say that they know the earth was round and had a map of it way before us.

 

If anyone has any ideas of places I can check to see if it has been translated please let me know. Or a translater. Whats a translation cost? Is there a dictionary I can buy? The picture on this thing I could have drawn from my personal alchemy experiences. I think this may be what I have been looking for. I wonder if I went to Beijing I could get a priest there at the temple to read it into a recorder and then have the modern Chinese translated?

[freeform]

I wonder if I went to Beijing I could get a priest there at the temple to read it into a recorder and then have the modern Chinese translated?

 

How about just getting a Chinese translator in China - preferrably with experience of taoist texts - and get it translated there - would be much cheaper!

[Taiji Bum]

How about just getting a Chinese translator in China - preferrably with experience of taoist texts - and get it translated there - would be much cheaper!

See....thats why I post here...

[ThirstyTraveler]

Why don't you contact the professor that maintains the website where you found it. He might know if the scroll has been translated.

 

How do I contact daoiststudies.org?

James Miller

Email [email protected]

Department of Religious Studies

Queen's University

Kingston, ON

CANADA K7L 3N6

 

Fax +1 (613) 533-6879

[Owl]

[Taiji Bum]

Are you saying that the drawings came first and then all the writing?

 

Yes, "The Confirmatory Diagrams for Restoring Golden Elixir to the Alchemical Pearl" is way better. Who are you?

[freeform]

Darin,

 

I personally would translate 金液還丹印證圖 as:

"The Confirmatory Diagrams for Restoring Golden Elixir to the Alchemical Pearl"

 

now that's why you post here!

[Smile]

Nice post, Owl.

Darin, i hope you realize that no alchemical text will help you with the problems you face.

Max

[Taiji Bum]

Nice post, Owl.

Darin, i hope you realize that no alchemical text will help you with the problems you face.

Max

As Taoist immortals aren't falling off trees too help me I dont see that I have much choice. Plus I doubt wandering the mountains of China would help either.

 

If I was going to draw my peak alchemy experiences they would look almost exactly like the ones in that scroll, especially the one with the boiling cauldron with the golden circle/red dot above it and the red flaming dragon above that. Those are the primary confirmatory signs drawn symbolically. I have seen them and whoever drew those diagrams saw them too. They walked the path I am on long ago and I want to know what they said. Maybe I haven't screwed up.

[Smile]

Darin,

Have you acquired any "supernatural" abilities along your training, because they would be the primary signs/effects of your success?

Max

Edited May 1, 2007 by Smile

[Taiji Bum]

Darin,

Have you acquired any "supernatural" abilities along your training, because they would be the primary signs/effects of your success?

Max

I dont have any superpowers although I did start the whole process to stop having spontaneous obe's.

[Owl]

Darin,

 

I don't have the requisite alchemical attainments to accurately translate the diagrams and their accompanying text for you. However, the last sentence in the paragraph next to the Kan Hexagram Lady is pretty obvious. It reads, "If you have not met a fully-attained one who can teach you in person, how can you decide where the mysterious pivot is?"

 

Indeed. The only person who can accurately translate this scroll for you is someone who has gone through the process himself. In other words, a master/teacher.

 

After reading the preface and postscript several times over, I came away with a very clear impression that this scroll is meant to be accompanied by oral transmission from master to disciple. In fact that has always been the case in Chinese history. The key is always passed down orally, never written down.

 

So there you have it, should you insist on proceeding without a living teacher, then you are going against the very warning embedded in the text. You decide.

 

Good Luck.

[Taiji Bum]

I found a Dragon Gate initiate here in Michigan believe it or not who sent me an email this morning that says she has done a translation of the scroll herself already. I guess she was at the White Cloud Temple in the 1980's.

 

How come if the Catholic church says you need them to get saved nobody believes it but Temple Taoists say you need them to get enlightened and its gospel?

 

Nobody would listen to a western church if they were saying in order to understand the bible you need an official "church" teacher but in an eastern religion if they say you need a guru or an enlightened teacher nobody questions it. Odd, dont you think? Why suspend your inner skeptic just because its from the east?

 

Take this verse-"If you have not met a fully-attained one who can teach you in person, how can you decide where the mysterious pivot is?" Seriously, if I knew a fully-attained one who could teach me in person I wouldn't need the scroll translated in the first place would I.

 

The scroll was written in my opinion to help those who cant find a teacher with the diagrams used as a meditaion/insight helper.

 

Owl, thank you for your time. I hope you keep posting here since you are obviously well connected to the Taoist traditions and not turned off by me.

[freeform]

How come if the Catholic church says you need them to get saved nobody believes it but Temple Taoists say you need them to get enlightened and its gospel?

 

If this was a Catholic forum - and you were taking the Catholic route to enlightenment I bet you would get the same response from people - find another human!!

 

The thing is I dont believe you can progress completely without someone acting as feedback... what I mean is - if you're at a restaurant and you have spinach in your teeth and no mirrors, then you'd only find out about it if you were acompanied by someone who had full use of their eyes and had an interest in helping you out.

 

and that's exactly what a master is - she has full use of her eyes (because she has been there, done that), she has full interest in your growth and can act as feedback for stuff that you dont notice.

 

I remember in your intro that there was a distinct lack of working on the emotions - which are connected with your middle dan tien which is connected to people around you - and they're usually your best teachers for that 'level'.

[Ian]

How come if the Catholic church says you need them to get saved nobody believes it but Temple Taoists say you need them to get enlightened and its gospel?

 

Easy one. Because the Catholic church offers no techniques, especially not any techniques which attempt to represent the non-verbal and hitherto unexperienced in words easily misinterpreted.

 

Actually, hang on. Maybe they do. Maybe all that bollocks over the centuries was actually coded instructions for the initiate. This opens up a whole new line of thought.

 

Incidentally, good luck in all you do. I don't know if it has been mentioned, in all the criticism of your navigating unaided, that it must have taken awesome willpower to keep going without a teacher or support network. More than I'd manage.

[Yen Hui]

... the Catholic church offers no techniques, especially not any techniques which attempt to represent the non-

verbal and hitherto unexperienced in words easily misinterpreted.

 

Actually, hang on. Maybe they do. Maybe all that bollocks over the centuries was actually coded instructions

for the initiate. This opens up a whole new line of thought.

 

Not true. Zen Master D.T. Suzuki stated several times in his writings that he believed the 13th century Catholic

Dominican monk named Meister Eckhart was a fully "enlightened" man, in the "Zen" sense of the word. There

were several like him, in both the West and the East. Check out the 6th century mystical writings of Dionysius

the Areopagite. I believe the main ones are freely available online for your perusal. He was Eckhart's principal

source of inspiration, among human teachers. Link to: The Areopagite's Mystical Theology.

 

EDITED TO INCLUDE THE FOLLOWING FIVE ADDITIONAL LINKS:-

 

02 - D.T. Suzuki on Christian and Buddhist Mysticism

 

03 - The East-West Contemplative Dialogue

 

04 - On Centering Prayer

 

05 - Christian Mindfulness & Emptiness

 

06 - Heart Meditation within the Christian Tradition

Edited May 2, 2007 by Yen Hui

[Taiji Bum]

On the CatholicAnswers.com website I almost got banned. They think I am an athiest posing as a Catholic trying to start trouble. What I am is open minded. I tried 3 Cardinals, 10 Bishops and too many priests to count when I was having OBE's and they had nothing to offer so I turned to Taoism.

[Yen Hui]

The thing is I dont believe you can progress completely without someone acting as feedback... what I mean is -

if you're at a restaurant and you have spinach in your teeth and no mirrors, then you'd only find out about it if

you were acompanied by someone who had full use of their eyes and had an interest in helping you out.

 

and that's exactly what a master is - she has full use of her eyes (because she has been there, done that), she

has full interest in your growth and can act as feedback for stuff that you dont notice.

 

I remember in your intro that there was a distinct lack of working on the emotions - which are connected with

your middle dan tien which is connected to people around you - and they're usually your best teachers for

that 'level'.

 

According to Taoist teaching, so far as I have managed to "grasp" it, the problem is one of subjectivity, or of

being enslaved by the passions and emotional consciousness. From the standpoint of modern psychology, we

suffer from a kind of terminal psychological blindness. The passions and emotional consciousness obstruct the

native clarity inherent in all people. The spiritually achieved person is "objective" and can see things correctly,

from the perspective of the "bigger" picture. Apart from the fact they have already penetrated the mysterious

pass, and are fit guides through the rocky mountain gorges, they are able to objectively examine and assess

all our strengths and weaknesses.