The most powerful person is the one with the strongest mind.

[thelerner]

Effie Chow used qi energy!! I have experienced her energy personally.

 

As she states this is the same energy she uses to heal cancer!!

 

It's not just some physical trick!

 

It's high frequency light electromagnetic energy.

Thing is, most of these healers don't keep tabs on who they cure or not. No survival rate information. For many there is zero checkup on there 'patients'. I don't mean to demean the whole of qi gong style healing, but when it fails I think people accept it and move on. I think the healers only know there success rates.

 

People are led to believe its a magic cure all, and that is simply not true.

[thelerner]

Hi M, just curious as to where you get your information about "most of these healers?"

 

Hope you are well.

I'm good, and don't want to derail this thread too much.

I didn't say most, I said many. Similar, but lower threshold of proof required.

 

My thinking comes from my mother in law who saw a recommended healer and died.

Years of reading Skeptic Magazine and solid articles debunking some healers and noting the chaos they caused. I don't want to impugn the whole field of chi medicine, but it must acknowledged there are charlatans and there are practitioners and patients who fool themselves.

 

Take a character like John of God from Brazil. I saw a long relatively neutral on him and people have so much invested in the whole process of seeing him that they leave the hall, claim they're cured. In the documentary some were others died soon after coming home. But in John's followers eyes they were part of another long string of success. This is the dangerous aspect I'm talking about.

 

You have people who assume a healer has godlike powers. Call, pay your money and poof everything is fine. In some cases it may be. In others the patient is riding on combination of psychological and maybe chi energy for a while then die or the illness reappears.

Edited August 2, 2013 by thelerner

[Jetsun]

With some healers if they bring their clients to be at peace with whatever is happening to them then that is healing, even if they die.

[Stosh]

I didnt see anyone contest the idea

that the distressed might get some relief ,

or might be encouraged to adopt better habits,

or even that there are no psychosomatic benefits ,

to what some of these folks may offer,

In this part of the thread

 

It is the throwing around of magic energies

that some of us are skeptical about.

And thats the issue you have danced around there Jetsun.

Thats OK , its up to you , but if you're really in agreement

with the skeptics ,

I see no reason why you shouldnt be able to say that.

Or if you arent , you should be able to say that,,

I am suspecting, that often its the fancy footwoork,

rather than the substance, which is putting folks at odds,

more often than not, regarding these things.

( yes I do it too)

[voidisyinyang]

If someone has a serious condition they should practice four hours of qigong a day.

 

Then get a qigong master healing once a year.

 

That's pretty much the standard follow-up routine.

 

A lot of people don't follow this.

 

I heard of one person who had their breast cancer completely healed - but they didn't practice qigong on their own and didn't get any follow up healings and so the cancer came back and they died.

 

So yeah it's a two-way street on this stuff....

[Protector]

The most powerful person has the most powerful horse stance

[Jetsun]

I didnt see anyone contest the idea

that the distressed might get some relief ,

or might be encouraged to adopt better habits,

or even that there are no psychosomatic benefits ,

to what some of these folks may offer,

In this part of the thread

 

It is the throwing around of magic energies

that some of us are skeptical about.

And thats the issue you have danced around there Jetsun.

Thats OK , its up to you , but if you're really in agreement

with the skeptics ,

I see no reason why you shouldnt be able to say that.

Or if you arent , you should be able to say that,,

I am suspecting, that often its the fancy footwoork,

rather than the substance, which is putting folks at odds,

more often than not, regarding these things.

( yes I do it too)

 

I'm not dancing, I have met a healer who uses "magical" energy which is of a power most people here couldn't fathom, it has really opened my eyes to a world most would consider only exists in the most vivid imaginations, yet there are healings on a different level then curing sickness and disease. But I wouldn't say the healer is one of the most powerful people in the world because the energy they use isn't theirs, they are a conduit.

 

I don't think the most powerful person is the one with the strongest mind as the mind is just a tool, there are those who go beyond the mind to something much larger and more powerful than regular human thought. But power comes in many forms, in terms of Qi power the stories I have been reading about Yan Xin sound very impressive, in terms of holy power there are beings like Amma, Mother Meera and the Dalai Lama who are working with the power of compassion to try save mankind and in terms of raw political and military power the aren't many single individuals more powerful than Vladimir Putin.

[Stosh]

I like that candor a lot .

Though we are in opposition on the magic thing,

I'd offer you this consideration, the pres , the rich,

The educated etc all are conduits of forces beyond their own limbs.

So you might as well put your healer in the running.

Even such a person such as Putin is greatly constrained, realistically ,

he can't just drop his persona, dial up domino's, and play a friendly game of twister.

Yes he can influence other folks lives, but to a large degree he is locked in to his own.

Zerostao for instance , has a great deal of freedom in his own life, not in spite of not being tha Dalai Llama , but because of it. You - can indulge in frank communication on here and be appreciated for it.The president cannot.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Actually I find the mind tends to get in people's way, no matter how strong it is and how well they use it. The mind is what we shut off in deep states of meditation as well as spiritual states. The mind is also very caught up with the ego, which can sometimes go quite overboard. I have not seen a strong mind be able to counter this, but more allowing the other aspects of self and higher self to step in instead.

 

Also I find power and strength to be illusions. These are things we strive for or tell ourselves to keep our monkey mind happy and to make us have false security.

 

We are too afraid to let the mind and the control go.

[Stosh]

As the the hulk said, "you wouldn't like when I am angry."

[rene]

The most powerful person has the most powerful horse stance

 

 

[3bob]

Mind directed by singular Spirit is strong, for its master has no doubts!

 

The "still, small voice" of truth reaches through all layers of mind arising as an irresistible roar of undefeatable unity in forces.

Edited August 3, 2013 by 3bob

[teknix]

I see that you foretold of my comming, very good intuition.

[Jeff]

The heart leads to the source, the mind is more like the window to existence/form. But, most of us have very dirty windows...

[teknix]

You think you have a window? ROFL, what it is to have . . .

[ralis]

You think you have a window? ROFL, what it is to have . . .

 

Why are you trolling again?

[teknix]

And here he comes to beg to differ, predictable!

[Jeff]

You think you have a window? ROFL, what it is to have . . .

The light flowing through the heart makes great "Windex" for the window cleaning.

 

Would you like to explain what you mean by "what it is to have . . ."?

 

Regards.

[teknix]

What is having? What is there to have?

[Jeff]

What is having? What is there to have?

In context, having is a perspective (or view). Individual "views" of consciousness do not cease.

 

Also, the cool thing is that windows (mind) are two way. One can look out, and one can look in... It all just depends where one focuses their awareness.

 

Best wishes.

[teknix]

For there to be a window,there must be something separate from the window, in reality there is no window.

Edited August 3, 2013 by teknix

[Jeff]

For there to be a window,there must be something separate from the window, in reality there is no window.

Ultimately (for a buddha), I would agree, but words are used to describe. Also, the percieved field of "awareness" in awareness expands with ongoing clarity of mind.

 

Are you saying that for you there is "no window" and you have an "unlimited" view/perspective of all awareness/consciousness?

 

Thanks.

[kevin_wallbridge]

Who cares who the most powerful is? It won't be anyone posting on this thread.... oh crap there goes my chance.

[teknix]

Ultimately (for a buddha), I would agree, but words are used to describe. Also, the percieved field of "awareness" in awareness expands with ongoing clarity of mind.

 

Are you saying that for you there is "no window" and you have an "unlimited" view/perspective of all awareness/consciousness?

 

Thanks.

 

I disagree, I think it goes for the Tao, the Golden Rule, and Kantianism as well as the categorical imperative which is above any categorical divisions.

[Jeff]

 

I disagree, I think it goes for the Tao, the Golden Rule, and Kantianism as well as the categorical imperative which is above any categorical divisions.

What do you "disagree" with? The concept of awareness (and the field of perception) or the question that I asked you?

 

Also, I thought we were discussing direct perception of reality/consciousness in reference to the concept of "mind", rather than philosophy. In simple terms, would you not agree that if you cannot percieve "all", your "field of view" is obscured (or limited)? And hence, there is percieved separation.