The Purpose of Taoist Cultivation

[Marblehead]

To attain the condition where the objective and the subjective are exactly the same.

 

(I stole that and am proud of it.)

 

 

[Vitalii]

Inner Alchemy methods allow to penetrate into the depths of essential Being.

Through study and comprehension of inner world in a state of peace and quietness, we penetrate into the mysteries of Being. Methods of Inner Alchemy will help to return to the roots, to touch original (“divine”) nature and direct own knowledge to understanding and connection with the truth (with Dao). Therefore, it becomes possible to understand the world deeper, and to result in a more adequate interaction with the outside world. A Master who attained perfection by practicing techniques of Inner Alchemy is called the “Immortal \ Inhabitant of heaven \ Saint” (仙 – «Xian”).

 

 

Methods of Inner Alchemy are primarily focused on cleansing and improving of heart nature, cleansing of heart and mind from obscurations, and comprehension of original nature.

 

 

http://zhendaopai.com/inner-alchemy/

Edited August 6, 2013 by Vitalii

[Marblehead]

Hi Vitalii,

 

I used to argue that the Philosophical was the best path toward re-attaining our 'original nature'. During my time on this board I think I have become much more open-minded in that I suggest that if we do return to our original nature it really doesn't matter all that much which path we followed to get there.

 

(Of course, I am the Philosophical guy so I will always agrue in its favor. Hehehe.)

[Basher]

To Accept All that Is.........and All that Will Be.

[joeblast]

Still gotta deal with various coefficients of friction one way or the other...philosophical or energetic manipulations only go so far...ah, what's the nature of the various frictions?

[Ish]

Hi Vitalii,

 

I used to argue that the Philosophical was the best path toward re-attaining our 'original nature'. During my time on this board I think I have become much more open-minded in that I suggest that if we do return to our original nature it really doesn't matter all that much which path we followed to get there.

 

(Of course, I am the Philosophical guy so I will always agrue in its favor. Hehehe.)

 

 

So you reckon its an intellectual thing?

[ChiDragon]

A person who learn Tao, must always practice Siu Sin Yang Sin.

 

修心養性(Siu Sin Yang Sin ), cultivate one's heart and maintain one's purified character.

Edited August 6, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Marblehead]

...ah, what's the nature of the various frictions?

I think it has something to do with living but I'm not sure.

[Marblehead]

So you reckon its an intellectual thing?

I do, yes. But that applies only to me, directly. I don't know what path would be best for anyone else. I suppose that many would find the intellectual path adequate to get them where they want to be. And remember, intellectual does not necessarily mean the absence of spirituality, it just means that the intellectual takes the front seat and drives the car.

[Marblehead]

 

修心養性(Siu Sin Yang Sin ), cultivate one's heart and maintain one's purified character.

But I will suggest that if the intellectual cultivator is without bias and practices with their entire being the heart will be cultivated and by this will become pure.

 

It is really hard for me to talk about "heart" because I believe it to be our subconscious mind. The heart is our organ that pumps blood. Our feelings (our subconscious mind) are what makes the heart flutter.

[ChiDragon]

But I will suggest that if the intellectual cultivator is without bias and practices with their entire being the heart will be cultivated and by this will become pure.

 

...................... "heart" because I believe it to be our subconscious mind.

 

Philosophically, that is exactly what it was in the minds of the ancients. Once, the ancients thought every thought was coming from the heart; and the heart was considered to be the center of the body. They had a notion that by cultivating the heart means cultivating one's character for a good will being as a whole. The purpose of Taoist cultivation is to purify one's mind and body.

Edited August 6, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Marblehead]

 

Philosophically, that is exactly what it was in the minds of the ancients. Once, the ancients thought every thought was coming from the heart; and the heart was considered to be the center of the body. They had a notion that by cultivating the heart means cultivating one's character for a good will being as a whole. The purpose of Taoist cultivation is to purify one's mind and body.

Yea! We get to agree once again. I think that nearly all cultures thought that our deeper thoughts and feelings came from our heart.

 

Yes, take care of the mind and body and one will take care of the heart as well.

[Marblehead]

Shoot I don't even know. I never studied in a Taoist Temple.

Hehehe. I have never been in one either. Apparently some folks like them because they still exist.

[Marblehead]

In Taoist Temple, you could get the taoist teachings from actual Taoist priests not just people who research it and never dived into the field.

Very true. No Taoist Temples. I live in the Deep South of the USA. Nothing here but Southern Baptists.

[zerostao]

To attain the condition where the objective and the subjective are exactly the same.

 

(I stole that and am proud of it.)

i still prefer the word acquire , anyways go acquire more like this and then come back and share.

i had thread called unity once, i think it was about what you have shared.

 

malikshreds, i havnt been to a formal proper temple either---but hasnt kept me from obtaining authentic teaching.

the temple can come to the taoist, so to speak.

[zerostao]

But I will suggest that if the intellectual cultivator is without bias and practices with their entire being the heart will be cultivated and by this will become pure.

 

It is really hard for me to talk about "heart" because I believe it to be our subconscious mind. The heart is our organ that pumps blood. Our feelings (our subconscious mind) are what makes the heart flutter.

did you steal acquire this too?

either way thanks for sharing it.

[Marblehead]

did you steal acquire this too?

either way thanks for sharing it.

That one is mine. A result of my becoming detheitized. I just made that word up too. Hehehe. Okay, how about: A result of my becoming an Atheist.

[Marblehead]

There's one in NC I think.

Yeah, but my fish keep me pretty much at home. Since I have them locked down I have the responsibility for taking care of them.

[rene]

Still gotta deal with various coefficients of friction one way or the other...philosophical or energetic manipulations only go so far...ah, what's the nature of the various frictions?

 

Agree. Whatever their 'nature', they are germane to the system. Friction creates necessary tension. Ever see a clock with its mainspring totally sprung? Useless. Residual and inherent energies form the potential for the next event... all part of the way.

 

warm regards

[rene]

Marblehead, hi, interesting thread!

To attain the condition where the objective and the subjective are exactly the same.

Is that the purpose of Taoist Cultivation?? No wonder I'm not Taoist, philosophical or otherwise. (-:

To me, it makes more sense to experience the objective and subjective as simultaneous perspectives; utilizing the individual aspects of each, rather than trying to sublimate any differences.

Would you really try to attain a condition wherein you found no difference between the heads and the tails of a single coin? For what reason?

 

Maybe what you're trying to acquire is that the two sides are both part of the same coin at exactly the same time.

 

What say you?

[Wayfarer]

Marblehead, hi, interesting thread!

 

 

Is that the purpose of Taoist Cultivation?? No wonder I'm not Taoist, philosophical or otherwise. (-:

 

To me, it makes more sense to experience the objective and subjective as simultaneous perspectives; utilizing the individual aspects of each, rather than trying to sublimate any differences.

 

Would you really try to attain a condition wherein you found no difference between the heads and the tails of a single coin? For what reason?

 

Maybe what you're trying to acquire is that the two sides are both part of the same coin at exactly the same time.

 

What say you?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is the purpose of Taoism, Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism etc etc. We think there is a difference between the object and ourselves and we go through life overlooking what is right before our eyes. The few that do 'see' realise they are not a 'they', that their body is the same as what is not the body, their mind is the same as what is not the mind. This is the purpose of Taoism for sure.

 

Even the endless energy exercises found in Taoism are a poor second to Realising. Such a person comes to know that there are no individual aspects of this and that, there are no differences to bring into harmony - if there is no object or subject how can anything be brought into harmony? It has nothing to be in balance with. So yes, our Nature is to see there are no heads or tails, not even a coin. We leave this 'perspective' when we learn of a 'self' - and we find ourselves in the world we live in, in the sickness of humanity that is constantly trying to achieve unaware there is nothing to achieve, or never being at peace by overlooking that which is always at peace.

 

That's the reason we cultivate, is it not? Because even though we may not 'know', we trust there is a way that is different than the way we live, we believe there is something more profound - it aches in our heart for expression and knowing. So those who practice wish to return to that pure state of knowing but not-knowing, of being carefree, of knowing they are that which can never die and in being completely at peace no matter how the world around them tries to disturb that peace.

 

[Marblehead]

Marblehead, hi, interesting thread!

Thanks.

 

Is that the purpose of Taoist Cultivation?? No wonder I'm not Taoist, philosophical or otherwise. (-:

Ah!, you have misunderstood me (again!). Hehehe.

 

It is my opinion that you are a Taoist and a Philosophical one at that.

 

To me, it makes more sense to experience the objective and subjective as simultaneous perspectives; utilizing the individual aspects of each, rather than trying to sublimate any differences.

Why must there be differences? This statement of yours is difficult for me to respond to with words.

 

A tree is a tree. That's the objective. The tree happens to be of crooked wood therefore it is useless to the carpenter. That's the subjective. The tree provides shade for the passing traveller therefore it is useful. That's the subjective. But the tree is still what it is - a tree.

 

Our subjective opinions of the tree alter, in our mind, what the tree is. But the tree hasn't changed. It is we who have placed limits and value on the tree.

 

A tree with straight wood would be cut down by the carpenter because it is useful. But it would no longer be there for the weary traveller to rest in its shade. What remains is useless.

 

I may have to speak to this more.

 

Would you really try to attain a condition wherein you found no difference between the heads and the tails of a single coin? For what reason?

But in this simple example the subject and object are already the same. We see the tail side as it is and we see the head side as what it is. Subject and object are the same.

 

Maybe what you're trying to acquire is that the two sides are both part of the same coin at exactly the same time.

 

What say you?

No, I'm trying to attain. Hehehe.

 

And no, I don't want to change the objective. I will never tell you that the coin landed with tail up if in fact it landed with head up. That would be trying to alter the objective to meet my subjective needs.

 

And no again, I don't want everything to be the same. That saying "All is One" is tricky. All is not "One". All are different aspects of objective reality. It is true that all things are of the same source but here we have already gone beyond duality, beyond objectivity and subjectivity.

 

My chair is a chair. I should not use it as a ladder. I would likely fall down and break something.

[Marblehead]

It is the purpose of Taoism, Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism etc etc.

 

Nice post. You used words and phrases I would not have used so I had to go to the roots of what you said. And at the roots, I agree with what you said.

[baiqi]

It is really hard for me to talk about "heart" because I believe it to be our subconscious mind. The heart is our organ that pumps blood. Our feelings (our subconscious mind) are what makes the heart flutter.

In Chinese, the word 心 is about the mind (or rather the "place of the spirit), although it is somewhat related to the physical organ (in terms of TCM). When you have a sentence with this character, it is mostly related to the psyche. If we talk about the "blood pump", you will have 心脏. The last character "zàng" meaning "organ".

 

However, the heart being the center of emotions is common to many cultures, including the western one.

[Bubbles]

A tree is a tree. That's the objective. The tree happens to be of crooked wood therefore it is useless to the carpenter. That's the subjective. The tree provides shade for the passing traveller therefore it is useful. That's the subjective. But the tree is still what it is - a tree.

 

Our subjective opinions of the tree alter, in our mind, what the tree is. But the tree hasn't changed. It is we who have placed limits and value on the tree.

 

A tree with straight wood would be cut down by the carpenter because it is useful. But it would no longer be there for the weary traveller to rest in its shade. What remains is useless.

 

I am not sure your examples do your idea justice. Because it sounds like you are trying to eliminate all subjectivity. But subjectivity is what makes us humans. So I would make a difference between a functional subjectivity and a dysfunctional subjectivity.

 

How the carpenter could be carpenter without making difference between a straight tree and a crooked one? The usefulness of the tree is a subjective element but it is functional and relative only, it doesn't involve any bias per se. What introduces a dysfunctional element is when the carpenter looks at a tree only through his carpentry standards (which are only relative to carpentry), when he becomes incapable of seeing it as it is, i-e when he becomes incapable of seeing that there are two trees: the one that exists objectively and the one he is seeing when he working as a carpenter, a relative tree. It's the same reasoning with the passing traveler. If they are trapped into their minds, they can't see the tree objectively. If they can put aside their useful but relative ideas about the tree, they can meet and live in the same world.

 

I would also include in dysfunctional subjectivity most of our emotional patterns.