Psychological Suicide

[deci belle]

Just now I realized this topic didn't have to be that heavy, not that I'd avoid the opportunity to explore those heavinesses.

 

For the past two months I'd considered how the idea (suninmyeyes') had played out in my past experience (applied to situations), and I assumed how suninmyeyes had meant it in her comment.

 

There are at least two or three approaches to this topic I can think of. I assumed the way suninmyeyes might have used the term psychological suicide was in the relational/social sense; entailing both external and internal issues of relationship/societal status as well as emotional (d)evolution.

 

I'm not sure exactly how to proceed… just this much is enough for now.❤

[Basher]

Hi Deci,

can you link to the original thread(s), so that we can gain a better grasp of what's gone on beforehand ?

 

Thanks

 

Basher

[deci belle]

Oh thank you, rainbowvein! I'm not so computer-savvy at all!!

 

I appreciate that you would ask, Basher!

 

Also it would help if I get my sources correct! This is suninmyeyes comment from the Greatness is Incomplete thread:

 

 

 

It seems that this spiritual path is really like going against almost anything that is commonly considered reasnoble or acceptable . Like commiting a suicide of some sort and being born again in the same life , just starting to function from a different angle /perspective .

 

So it was I who turned it into "psychological suicide" (I knew it wasn't the other kind)! I guess the issue in assessing the gravity of "…committing a suicide of some sort…", lies in the circumstances of the situation; whether the shift is cathartic or else something l might describe as a "subtle operation".

 

As I know just a very small bit of suninmyeyes amazing life, I am hesitant to treat her powerful phrase in an off-hand way. It is a very challenging prospect …and I do love to live dangerously.❤

 

 

 

ed note: added everything below the top line

Edited August 7, 2013 by deci belle

[suninmyeyes]

Just now I realized this topic didn't have to be that heavy, not that I'd avoid the opportunity to explore those heavinesses.

Yes it is not heavy .

Infact it is so extremely light that it can be unbearable .

 

That what is heavy is disspearing and usually dearly missed due to lifetime habits that crave deep connections and ways of relating to life .

We are used to carry psychological lagguage -- mainly because that is how it is and it is normal and everyone does it and even if we are different still mostly we like to carry " I am different " sort of lagguage .

 

 

So in this case one commits a sort of (psychological ) suicide ( yes it is terrible dramatic term ) in order to get reborn more bouynt , interconnected .

[suninmyeyes]

As mentioned in email to you -- someone I know best described this new perspective mentioned above in previous post :

" It is a start of taking nourishment from Universe " .

(Instead of common mental/emotional foods .)

[Basher]

Sort of like "wiping the slate clean", and starting all over again ?

[LCH]

As mentioned in email to you -- someone I know best described this new perspective mentioned above in previous post :

" It is a start of taking nourishment from Universe " .

(Instead of common mental/emotional foods .)

 

 

Deci brought up "The Mysterious Female" in another thread...

 

Tao Te Ching #20 is a good description of what you speak of, to me at least. I treat this synonymously with "Great Mother", Deci can correct me if she has a different perception.

 

To Basher,

 

I tend to recognize "time" as being infinite snapshots of the "Tao" manifesting reality, like a strobe light. In this view, the slate is seemingly always clean, yet our memories seem to not allow that to be so.

 

It is just a factor of remembering such "beginnings", which to a conscious and capable ego can appear to be psychological suicide.

 

Maintaining that memory within a temporal setting is the "challenge".

 

Just what I have come to realize, fwiw.

[deci belle]

So in this case one commits a sort of (psychological ) suicide ( yes it is terrible dramatic term ) in order to get reborn more bouynt , interconnected .

 

Yes, I see~ so I don't have to write anything!! hahahhaaa!!❤❤❤

 

dang. heehee!!❤❤

[deci belle]

As mentioned in email to you -- someone I know best described this new perspective mentioned above in previous post :

" It is a start of taking nourishment from Universe " .

(Instead of common mental/emotional foods .)

 

This is wonderful. For me it represents authentic relationship in the impersonal aspect of unity aside from my usual spiel. That's really what I wanted to avoid in this thread.

 

So I hesitate to bring up nonpsychological, but there is no reason why the term isn't applicable in this sense as it is the impersonally direct connection with the universal without having to use terms that have spiritual or philosophical overtones.

 

Actually, there are elements to the 20th chapter, LCH, that would imply psychological implosion. I'd made a note on that chapter that "people don't see anything without their own minds, whereas enlightening being has no-mind to see with".

 

 

 

ed note: add response to LCH's comment

Edited August 8, 2013 by deci belle

[suninmyeyes]

Im coming back here later when there is more time ..:-)

[LCH]

Actually, there are elements to the 20th chapter, LCH, that would imply psychological implosion. I'd made a note on that chapter that "people don't see anything without their own minds, whereas enlightening being has no-mind to see with".

 

 

I agree, Deci.

 

#20

 

Give up learning, and put an end to your troubles.

Is there a difference between yes and no?

Is there a difference between good and evil?

Must I fear what others fear? What nonsense!

 

Other people are contented, enjoying the sacrificial feast of the ox.

In spring some go to the park, and climb the terrace,

But I alone am drifting, not knowing where I am.

Like a newborn babe before it learns to smile,

I am alone, without a place to go.

 

Others have more than they need, but I alone have nothing.

I am a fool. Oh, yes! I am confused.

 

Others are clear and bright,

But I alone am dim and weak.

Others are sharp and clever,

But I alone am dull and stupid.

 

Oh, I drift like the waves of the sea,

Without direction, like the restless wind.

Everyone else is busy,

But I alone am aimless and depressed.

I am different.

I am nourished by the great mother.

 

This to me is a lamentation regarding the process of saying good bye to one's learned personality as well as the possible responses from other people towards someone walking a different path than the collective.

 

(Translation from Gia Fu-Feng and Jane English)

[deci belle]

Lamentation indeed.❤

 

If only people were actually in such a position to lament their psychological suicides to the world, but so full of the wonder of living off the universal impersonal nature at the root of our aware nature, would they be able to note how they were so completely and sedistically lost in its unfathomable reality.

 

As natural as it is, the sudden is a huge pill to swallow. It is no joke when it is said realization is to swallow the universe in one gulp. It took me five years just to admit to myself what had happened; both because of its inconceivability as well as the fact that enlightenment is already ones own mind right now.

 

I will say that it was Taoist alchemy that took me over that edge, but it was Chan that taught me how to forget in the midst of falling freely.

 

It is necessary to conceive of the absolute, irrevocable security being expressed in this state of aimless depression.❤

 

The functional state of the wayfarer is a moment to moment personally incomplete deficiency in the midst of an impersonally overarching wholeness being truly oneself without beginning.

 

 

 

 

ed note: add everything below top line

Edited August 9, 2013 by deci belle

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Just now I realized this topic didn't have to be that heavy, not that I'd avoid the opportunity to explore those heavinesses.

 

For the past two months I'd considered how the idea (suninmyeyes') had played out in my past experience (applied to situations), and I assumed how suninmyeyes had meant it in her comment.

 

There are at least two or three approaches to this topic I can think of. I assumed the way suninmyeyes might have used the term psychological suicide was in the relational/social sense; entailing both external and internal issues of relationship/societal status as well as emotional (d)evolution.

 

I'm not sure exactly how to proceed… just this much is enough for now.❤

 

when the intent is backed by the will, the way forward always becomes evident eventually. it is only when you've given up that the way forward can elude you.

 

[deci belle]

Basher said:

Sort of like "wiping the slate clean", and starting all over again ?

Well, yes~ but it is not really done, in an ultimate sense, as it is already this way to begin with. It doesn't have the sense of the person at its core. This is the effect of the suicide as I know it. But as your comment was a response to sun's statement:

That what is heavy is disspearing and usually dearly missed due to lifetime habits that crave deep connections and ways of relating to life .
We are used to carry psychological lagguage -- mainly because that is how it is and it is normal and everyone does it and even if we are different still mostly we like to carry " I am different " sort of lagguage .


So in this case one commits a sort of (psychological ) suicide ( yes it is terrible dramatic term ) in order to get reborn more bouynt , interconnected.

In terms of suninmyeyes' statement, I know it as realizing that there is no other choice but to commit to the psychological suicide as it is an ever deepening way of relating to the world. So it's not so deliberate in a self-willed way like starting over, because you don't change anything. For my part it is the ceasing of change because I stopped following with the world with my mind.

This is how one enters gradually into the immediacy of a spiritual life, as one now begins to see reality without its psychologies of personality and this is why sun's reference to suicide is so apt and powerful. It is really like this. Psychological suicide is realizing the nonpsychological is spiritual and proving it in actual events. You don't stop seeing the world; you just see it for what it is and abide in its midst by selfless adaption to everyday situations. This is what allows one to not go along with the world while functioning in its midst.

Nothing is denied and the result is exchanging one's façade of identity for untrammeled freedom. It's an open secret that nobody knows but you. Nobody knows because it doesn't really look like freedom in conventional terms. But you are free of it and that saves (creates) an exquisite energy for evolutionary enlightening being. This is what stealing potential is, why it is and how you do it.

The only other element in this operation is when.

There is a line in the Yin Cinvergence Classic, one of the most ancient of all the taoist writings in existence, that says, "People know the spirit as psychological, they do not know why the nonpsychological is spiritual."

 

People mistaking their reifying psychological spirit for the real mind is the the number one sickness of practice and is the all-time greatest lament of authentic teachers …at least in the Asian traditions.

That what is heavy is disspearing and usually dearly missed due to lifetime habits that crave deep connections and ways of relating to life.

The sense of loss as sun describes is the tell-tale sign, the talisman, of witnessing the death of attachment to personality. Personality is the world. It doesn't stop; one ceases habitually feeding off its energy, which is polluted, karmic and un-redeemable.* What is being lost is one's attachment to it. You still have to live with it while in the midst of worldly affairs, or be subject to it when caught up in worldly ruminations.

 

Then one's feeding off the impersonal aspect of the universe, as sun said, becomes natural.

The asterisk is there because the work of the Great Vehicle of buddhas, sages and wizards (not to mention Jesus) was the redemption of just this world. One becomes one's own and the world's redeemer by giving the world what is its due. Since the personality is the property of the world, you relinquish it completely~ it doesn't even notice!

 

This allows you to accomplish the buddhist subtle operation within Suchness as is; alchemy's stealing of potential and taking over creation; taking back the sparks of the Kabbala; grabbing cubic centimeters of chance of the Toltec tradition… it goes on and on~ it's really a matter of freeing potential.

 

When the compulsion to act ceases to be a habit, you see what's going on without involving self-reifying thought. What is freed is your part in the karmic matrix, which naturally accumulates "grain by grain".

 

This is the work of enlightening being; there is no morality implied or exercised. This is completely beyond the realm of convention; it is entry into the inconceivable without partner.

 

It is completely real, natural and universally good, not by a country. It is the expression of the source of civilizations; the essence of unified selfless aware nature by which the conditioned self is killed off gradually until one realizes it has never existed.

 

After one successfully accomplishes impersonal psychological suicide, one goes on to advanced practice.

 

 

 

 

ed note: add "The only other element in this operation is when." after 4th paragraph; add last three paragraphs

Edited August 21, 2013 by deci belle