Shaolin Yijinjing Gengmenpai neigong workshop with Dr. Jiang Feng in China, Fall 2013.

[grady]

Back in China now, after a wonderful week in San Francisco with some great people. Many thanks to all those whose attendance made our first ever workshop on US soil such a success!

 

Shifu has been speaking to me for some time about his desire to enter into a period of biguan 闭关 (literally to “close one’s door to visitors”, in other words to enter into a period of retreat) for the purposes of engaging in our sect's method of mianbi 面壁 (“face to wall sitting”, the practice made famous by Bodhidharma/Damo), something he has not done since Shigong passed in 2011.

 

I am still not certain exactly when he will leave, and frankly I don't know how long he will be away from the hospital. As a result I suspect that we will not be holding neigong training in China next spring. So I am delighted that Shifu has permitted be to organize a final workshop this fall before he goes into the caves for the winter.

Dates are confirmed, November 3rd – 10th, 2013.

 

Location will be at our Apricot Forest Hospital in the Yellow Mountain District of Anhui Province, China.

I have once again scheduled this from Sunday to Sunday to try and help those with corporate schedules to get the time off from work. Please try to arrive on Saturday the 2nd, and we will get started promptly on the 3rd.

This seminar will run on a similar format to previous seminars in China, with a complete evaluation of your meridian system and formal empowerment by Shifu, medical treatments if necessary, and 8 full days of instruction in our neigong methods either by my or by one of the older Chinese brothers with me translating, depending on what Shifu wants to do.

Tuition is once again $3500, with a $1000 deposit needed to reserve your place.

As always those who are interested in coming for diagnosis and potentially for treatment only are invited completely free of charge.

Once again I am strictly limiting this seminar to 10 people, and a few spots are already spoke for.

This particular seminar is for students who have not traveled to China to begin our neigong before, those senior students who are interested in coming to China this fall to train will be making separate arrangements.

There is a “discount” available for those students who attended the waigong summer training in the USA and would like to come to China in November - please PM me for details.

 

If you are interested in attending this workshop, please PM me here on Taobums and I will point you in the direction of our private forum where everything is being arranged.

More info as it becomes available!

 

-Grady

 

http://www.apricotforesthospital.com

 

Prior taobums discussions of Dr. Jiang's Shaolin Yijinjing Gengmenpai and our previous neigong & waigong workshops:

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/27501-shaolin-yijinjing-gengmenpai-12-postures-seminar-in-the-usa-summer-2013/

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/25410-shaolin-yijinjing-gengmenpai-qigong-seminar-with-dr-jiang-feng-in-china-spring-2013/

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/24662-shaolin-yijinjing-gengmenpai-qigong-seminar-with-dr-jiang-feng-in-china-november-2012/

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/20075-demonstration-of-emitting-qi/

 

 

 

[qijack]

When you say nei gong, do you mean you will teach the nei gung meditation? Or are you referring to the yi jin jing qi gong ? Could you go into more detail about that please?

[grady]

When you say nei gong, do you mean you will teach the nei gung meditation? Or are you referring to the yi jin jing qi gong ? Could you go into more detail about that please?

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "the" neigong meditation.

 

Our "qigong" (氣功) material is roughly divided into what can be called "waigong" (外功) methods and "neigong" (内功) methods.

 

Our waigong material can be practiced by anyone, and is what was taught for the first time at our recent US workshop in San Francisco.

 

Our neigong material is what requires Shifu's personal empowerment to practice safely and effectively, and is what is (and has been) taught at our China workshops under Shifu's supervision.

 

Our yijinjing (易筋經) methods are somewhat similar and yet at the same time very different from the various publicly transmitted sets commonly known as "yijinjing".

 

In terms of comparison the results generated by our practices seem to resemble most closely those of John Chang's "Mopai", and while I personally believe there are as many similarities as their are differences in what we do and what they do, we are emphatically *not* associated with the Mopai school in any way, and we do not practice or teach Mopai methods.

Edited August 10, 2013 by leandro

[grady]

In response to a number of inquiries: no, I am not certain when the next training for neigong students in China will be (following the November 2013 workshop).

Given that Shifu will be away this winter on retreat, and given that Spring 2014 will likely be devoted to advanced neigong training for returning senior students, and given that I suspect Shifu will ask me to run a waigong workshop in the USA again during Summer 2014, most likely the next neigong training for new students will be held in Fall 2014.

That being said, I am of course bound by Shifu's wishes and his schedule, but since you guys asked, the above is my best estimate.

Edited August 24, 2013 by leandro

[grady]

I'm excited to be able to share with you guys a new video of Shifu demonstrating one form of the qi field phenomenon, which I've just uploaded to his official youtube page here:

This video was shot at our hospital during a recent clinic for a group of European patients, and Shifu didn't give me a lot of warning before doing what he did, so the video quality is not the greatest - honestly the video barely does the demonstration justice. Definitely watch in full screen mode for best detail.

Regardless, I have never before seen him modulate the qi field in such a subtle way, it was really a pretty amazing thing to witness.

Enjoy!

Edited September 3, 2013 by leandro

[MooNiNite]

.

Edited October 31, 2013 by MooNiNite

[MooNiNite]

...

Edited October 31, 2013 by MooNiNite

[NotVoid]

 

I'm excited to be able to share with you guys a new video of Shifu demonstrating one form of the qi field phenomenon, which I've just uploaded to his official youtube page here:

 

Hi Leandro. Although the video link appears to be correct, the video itself is not currently playing. It might just be a temporary problem, but can you maybe have a look?

[Ish]

 

I'm excited to be able to share with you guys a new video of Shifu demonstrating one form of the qi field phenomenon, which I've just uploaded to his official youtube page here:

This video was shot at our hospital during a recent clinic for a group of European patients, and Shifu didn't give me a lot of warning before doing what he did, so the video quality is not the greatest - honestly the video barely does the demonstration justice. Definitely watch in full screen mode for best detail.

Regardless, I have never before seen him modulate the qi field in such a subtle way, it was really a pretty amazing thing to witness.

Enjoy!

 

What was on the paper? Was it small shreds of paper being "magnetically" pulled up?

[NotVoid]

Hi Leandro, never mind about the video, it is working for me now.

 

From what I can make out in the video, Dr. Jiang made the paper turn to what

looks like a liquid form and the liquid paper is kind of standing up in columns and wiggling

where he is projecting his qi. It is kind of blurry though on my monitor. Is that pretty much what

happened, or am I not seeing that correctly?

Edited September 3, 2013 by NotVoid

[grady]

I think I have heard of this guy. Cool stuff

 

Was Shigong the grandmaster?

 

Yes, the monk Xuan Kong, who was Shifu's teacher.

 

http://apricotforesthospital.com/grandmaster-xuan-kong/

 

Some questions I have regarding your system 1. What location in the body does fusion occur? 2. Is there a noticable shift in awareness/consciousness after fusion in your system? These questions seem pretty reasonable to know before I persue a system, so that I know what the goals are and what is going on

 

There are a lot of assumptions here which seem to be based on Mo Pai rumors.

 

Suffice it to say that in the beginning we primarily work with the lower dantian, and that the end goal with all of this qi work for us is enlightenment in this lifetime.

 

Hi Leandro, never mind about the video, it is working for me now.

 

From what I can make out in the video, Dr. Jiang made the paper turn to what

looks like a liquid form and the liquid paper is kind of standing up in columns and wiggling

where he is projecting his qi. It is kind of blurry though on my monitor. Is that pretty much what

happened, or am I not seeing that correctly?

 

Nope, Ish got it right, there was a small pile of little bits of paper on top of the big sheet.

 

When Shifu pushes the qi field they leap up and sort of "dance" between the paper and either the 十宣 ShiXuan points of his first two fingers or the 劳宫 LaoGong point of the palm.

 

I really do wish the quality was better, but if you watch on a desktop with decent resolution and full screen mode you should be able to see what's happening fairly clearly.

 

Shifu hasn't been exerting himself much, in preparation for his retreat, so it kind of took me by surprise when he demonstrated this and unfortunately I simply wasn't able to set up to get a good quality video of the whole thing.

[NotVoid]

Nope, Ish got it right, there was a small pile of little bits of paper on top of the big sheet.

 

When Shifu pushes the qi field they leap up and sort of "dance" between the paper and either the 十宣 ShiXuan points of his first two fingers or the 劳宫 LaoGong point of the palm.

 

It seems I have to get a better monitor. Now that you have described what was happening, I can make more sense out of what I am seeing in the video clip. Thanks for the clarification.

[安永樂]

---

Edited August 22, 2019 by 安永樂

[grady]

Hi Leandro,

 

I'd have a few questions concerning the Gengmenpai and I'd be grateful if you could address them in detail point by point - not merely for my own benefit, but also for the benefit of the broader public.

 

1.) How exactly is enlightenment understood in your school and through which techniques can it be reached in one life-time?

Our definition of enlightenment is the same as any other orthodox buddhist transmission: direct insight/knowledge into the fundamental nature of phenomena which liberates one from suffering, karma and the cycle of rebirth, amongst all the other ancillary "benefits". We are a Chan tradition, and as such we rely on Chan practice ("meditation", for lack of a better word; and the experiential, mind-to-mind transmission outside the scriptures) to achieve this insight/knowledge.

 

2.) Is according to Gengmenpai immortality possible? If so, how exactly is immortality defined in the Gengmenpai?

Shifu appears to take an agnostic stance on physical immortality. Immortality of the "shen" or "immortal fetus" sort is considered one potential outcome of the shen training which comes after the qi training, but is not the ultimate goal of our practice.

 

 

 

3.) Under what conditions is it possible to learn the complete curriculum of the Gengmenpai directly from Dr. Jiang Feng? I.e. all the methods and techniques in a traditional and unmodified, unabridged manner. Simply stated: everything that the Gengmenpai has and is.

 

Nothing witheld, no secrets. As said: everything.

Well, given that Shifu has not officially chosen an heir/successor, and given that I don't believe anyone (even his most senior Chinese students) has 100% of what he has, I'd consider this an open question.

 

 

 

Thank you in advance for the answers.

 

An Yongle

My pleasure.

Edited September 9, 2013 by leandro

[grady]

It is only the middle of September, and half the spots for the November workshop in China are already spoken for.

 

I continue to receive a lot of inquiries from folks here and elsewhere, and I encourage anyone who is on the fence to contact me with your questions or concerns while there are still a few openings remaining.

Edited September 16, 2013 by leandro

[MooNiNite]

Shifu appears to take an agnostic stance on physical immortality. Immortality of the "shen" or "immortal fetus" sort is considered one potential outcome of the shen training which comes after the qi training, but is not the ultimate goal of our practice.

Edited October 31, 2013 by MooNiNite

[grady]

 

what is the ultimate goal of your practice?

As stated above in a previous post, and elsewhere in other threads on this forum, we are a Chan tradition, and as such our ultimate goal is full enlightenment (and concomitant liberation from suffering, in addition to all the other "goodies") in *this* lifetime.

 

The development of jing, qi, and shen - which can be used for other corollary purposes (medical, martial, etc.) - are ultimately all in service to the goal of full enlightenment & liberation in *this* lifetime.

[RIP789]

Leandro:

 

Thank you for alerting us as to the impressive demonstrations of qi by Dr. Jiang Feng.

 

Just to help us understand better the nature of the practice that potentially leads to such an apparently outstanding accomplishment in qi cultivation, can you give a sense of the role of muscle exertion in your YJJ practice?

 

The reason I ask stems from my understanding of the method of qi cultivation in Tai Chi practice. As you probably know, Tai Chi emphasizes maximum relaxation of muscles in executing the movements, i.e. no muscle tension beyond the bare minimum needed to form and hold the various postures in the form practice. The theory underlying such emphasis is that muscle tension somehow blocks qi flow.

 

In apparent contrast, I note that Dr. Jiang Feng and his students all seem to actively exert muscular effort when issuing qi, including forming some type of inner compression of qi when performing a demonstration or issuing qi into a patient. It does seem therefore that in your type of YJJ practice, muscles are actively recruited in the process of issuing qi.

 

In a nutshell, what I would appreciate is your giving a sense of the role of muscle exertion in both qi issuance (as discussed above) as well as qi cultivation.

 

Many thanks.

[grady]

Leandro:

 

Thank you for alerting us as to the impressive demonstrations of qi by Dr. Jiang Feng.

 

Just to help us understand better the nature of the practice that potentially leads to such an apparently outstanding accomplishment in qi cultivation, can you give a sense of the role of muscle exertion in your YJJ practice?

 

The reason I ask stems from my understanding of the method of qi cultivation in Tai Chi practice. As you probably know, Tai Chi emphasizes maximum relaxation of muscles in executing the movements, i.e. no muscle tension beyond the bare minimum needed to form and hold the various postures in the form practice. The theory underlying such emphasis is that muscle tension somehow blocks qi flow.

 

 

Good question.

 

In my experience this idea - that the practitioner must always pursue minimal tension, and that any muscular tension blocks "qi flow" - is a common misconception in the taijiquan, particularly taijiquan as it exists and is popularly practiced in the West.

 

The misconception is rooted in a number of factors: in the different ways these arts were taught to "in door" disciples and to regular students, in the different ways these arts were taught prior to the cultural revolution and afterwards, and in various misunderstandings during the transmission to Western students caused by linguistic and cultural barriers (especially in regards to technical terminology), etc.

 

Taijiquan as it is taught in the orthodox traditional transmissions that I have had contact with does *not* emphasize "maximum relaxation of muscles in executing the movements, i.e. no muscle tension beyond the bare minimum needed to form and hold the various postures in the form practice".

 

What it does emphasize, is maximum relaxation to the extent possible while other parameters including specific kinds of active muscular tension are in place.

 

A simple example is that a proper horse stance is not achieved by simply placing the body in a given posture and then holding that posture with the minimum possible tension. Proper horse stance practice additionally involves certain active applications of muscular tension in very specific ways to generate the desired effect. If you were to lift someone standing in a proper horse stance off the ground, their legs would snap together as a direct result of the active tension being applied through the lower body down into the ground. If the stance is simply held with the minimum tension necessary to hold the posture, this constitutes "dead" standing and will not generate the desired result.

 

In apparent contrast, I note that Dr. Jiang Feng and his students all seem to actively exert muscular effort when issuing qi, including forming some type of inner compression of qi when performing a demonstration or issuing qi into a patient. It does seem therefore that in your type of YJJ practice, muscles are actively recruited in the process of issuing qi.

 

Some of the muscular tension you perceive is necessary to generate a process, and some of the muscular tension you perceive is an ancillary result (a "side effect", so to speak) of the result of a process.

 

In a nutshell, what I would appreciate is your giving a sense of the role of muscle exertion in both qi issuance (as discussed above) as well as qi cultivation.

 

The simplest answer is that muscular exertion is involved in both the activation of certain phenomena and in the result of their activation.

 

What is most important to understand is that deep muscular relaxation is also involved, and that these two things are not contradictory, but complimentary.

 

The biceps can only fully contract when the triceps is fully relaxed.

 

It all depends on specifically when, where, why, and to what degree the tension is applied, and specifically when, where, why, and to what degree the relaxation is applied.

 

As an aside, it is important to understand that the vast, vast majority of methods incorporated in any given transmission of "taijiquan" do not have as their end goal the development of the ability to 发气 "emit qi" - they have as their goal the ability to 发劲 "emit jin" or 发力 "emit li", which is something very different and depending on the context of the terms used is not even necessarily directly related.

 

Many thanks.

 

My pleasure.

Edited October 4, 2013 by leandro

[RIP789]

Leandro:

 

Thanks very much for the helpful response.

 

In fairness to the myriad styles of Tai Chi out there, I should add that the perspective on Tai Chi that I was citing earlier has been shaped by a particular interpretation of the Zheng Mang Qing style, which itself is an outgrowth of the relaxation-oriented Yang style. There are other styles of Tai Chi that emphasize techniques, such as silk reeling, which "relaxation" diehards may interpret as undesirable "muscle tension." Actually, even Prof. Zheng himself advocated a particular body/mind state which he called "swimming on land", i.e. performing the movements as if one is encountering a resistance having the consistency of water, which arguably involves recruitment of muscle fibers or neurons in excess of the bare minimum needed to form and hold the various postures.

 

Your depiction of the proper role of muscle tension makes sense to me. To use a crude analogy, negating the role of muscle tension in qigong practice is somewhat like using only 5 or 6 cylinders in a V8 car engine. Muscles are an integral part of our body/mind - they even help to regulate internal functions such as blood sugar levels or insulin resistance - and I don't see the point of negating a proper role for muscles in qi cultivation either.

 

Dr. Jiang's school is fortunate to have such an articulate proponent as you.

Edited October 4, 2013 by RIP789

[Iskote]

I don't want to pull this thread off topic, so I will try to keep this fairly brief. I personally think people are not incorrect when they say you must completely relax when practicing tai chi so as not to restrict the circulation of qi and blood, but always implicit in this relaxation is that we must also always maintain the structure of each form without being prone to collapsing too easily, i.e., we always have to maintain 'peng' throughout the body in each form. Also, going hand in hand with this, all parts of the body should remain connected as one whole through each form as well. I don't think this really differs with what Leandro said about tai chi above however. If there is any misunderstanding about this, it is probably mainly by people who are fairly new to tai chi or who do not practice tai chi at all.

Edited October 4, 2013 by Iskote

[宁]

 

 

 

 

A simple example is that a proper horse stance is not achieved by simply placing the body in a given posture and then holding that posture with the minimum possible tension. Proper horse stance practice additionally involves certain active applications of muscular tension in very specific ways to generate the desired effect. If you were to lift someone standing in a proper horse stance off the ground, their legs would snap together as a direct result of the active tension being applied through the lower body down into the ground. If the stance is simply held with the minimum tension necessary to hold the posture, this constitutes "dead" standing and will not generate the desired result.

 

 

nice one, especially wrt 'living' and 'dead' horse; dead-horse stance, has a nice ring to it

someone hurry and paste this up on the horse stance threads asap

[grady]

Leandro:

 

Thanks very much for the helpful response.

 

In fairness to the myriad styles of Tai Chi out there, I should add that the perspective on Tai Chi that I was citing earlier has been shaped by a particular interpretation of the Zheng Mang Qing style, which itself is an outgrowth of the relaxation-oriented Yang style. There are other styles of Tai Chi that emphasize techniques, such as silk reeling, which "relaxation" diehards may interpret as undesirable "muscle tension." Actually, even Prof. Zheng himself advocated a particular body/mind state which he called "swimming on land", i.e. performing the movements as if one is encountering a resistance having the consistency of water, which arguably involves recruitment of muscle fibers or neurons in excess of the bare minimum needed to form and hold the various postures.

 

Your depiction of the proper role of muscle tension makes sense to me. To use a crude analogy, negating the role of muscle tension in qigong practice is somewhat like using only 5 or 6 cylinders in a V8 car engine. Muscles are an integral part of our body/mind - they even help to regulate internal functions such as blood sugar levels or insulin resistance - and I don't see the point of negating a proper role for muscles in qi cultivation either.

 

Dr. Jiang's school is fortunate to have such an articulate proponent as you.

 

In my experience Westerners have a tendency to underestimate the complexity of the process of transmission, and the obscurity that it throws over who actually got what from whom.

 

Just because someone didn't teach something publicly, or even privately, doesn't mean they didn't have it. And, perhaps more importantly, just because the teacher is willing to transmit something doesn't mean that the student is capable of receiving it.

 

I believe that the issues relating to the problem of understanding how to practice taijiquan correctly are fundamentally the same as learning how to practice any other aspect of Chinese physical culture correctly, they are simply magnified/further distorted by both the popularity of taijiquan and it's widespread association and thus conflation with all things "daoist".

 

Primary issues of misunderstanding involve the distinction between appropriate & inappropriate muscular tension, the distinction between the muscular system and the tendon-ligament-connective tissue system, and the proper understanding of foreign technical terminology and the associated concepts such as li 力, jin 劲, qi 气, song 松, etc.

 

Another overarching "meta" problem is the fact that these concepts take on very different meanings in different contexts: what they mean in a martial arts context and what they mean in a cultivation concept are not necessarily the same thing, or even anywhere close to the same thing.

 

A major portion of the workshops I do on Shifu's behalf in China and the United States is devoted to the linguistic and anthropological issues involved in genuinely understanding these concepts and effectively putting them into practice, without which it's simply not possible to get results.

Edited October 9, 2013 by leandro

[grady]

If there is any misunderstanding about this, it is probably mainly by people who are fairly new to tai chi or who do not practice tai chi at all.

 

Unfortunately that has not been my experience.

 

An inordinate amount of people practice incorrectly for years, at best achieving nothing, and at worst actually injuring themselves, ironically in the explicit pursuit of being healthier.

Edited October 9, 2013 by leandro

[Iskote]

I think most people still experience various health benefits from taiji practice even though many people may not practice taiji everyday. Few people have the motivation or time to practice taiji for several hours everyday like many of the taiji masters of old did, so it is not surprising that many people do not achieve a high level in their taiji practice. People getting all sorts of health benefits from taiji is certainly a fair bit more than 'achieving nothing at best after years of taiji practice' however.

 

I am inclined to think that any people who cause harm to themself from taiji are probably actually for the most part people who mix in other qigong, breathing, neigong, meditation, and 'taoist sexual practices' and that sort of thing from stuff they have learned in books or elsewhere. They may say they were 'practicing taiji', but I would guess that it was mixing in other stuff or otherwise greatly diverging from taiji's basic and simple principles that caused the issues for them. Taiji practiced at all correctly is very natural and should not likely be harmful. In my experience most people who just mainly practice taiji itself get various real health benefits from it, and that is what most people seem to be mainly looking for in taiji practice these days anyway. It may seem to you that many people who practice taiji cause problems for themself because it is likely only people who have caused harm to themself (likely through other practices other than taiji) go to shifu Jiang for healing. The majority of people who practice taiji get good health benefits from taiji so do not need to seek out a healer in China or elsewhere unless they have other unrelated health issues. You are probably getting a fairly one sided view at shifu Jiang's clinic in China.

Edited October 9, 2013 by Iskote