Sons of Reflected Light - where they Druids?

[Wayfarer]

Hi everyone,

 

Some of my earliest experiences of Taoism (other than the Tao Te Ching) where learning Lee Style Tai Chi in the early 90's, which has a heavy interest in Taoism. In this practice it was told that the healing arts and spiritual practices of Taoists were transmitted to the Chinese by the Sons of Reflected Light - a people with strange clothing, some up to 7 feet tall and arriving in China around 10,000 years ago.

 

I'm sure many of you will know about the Celtic mummies discovered in China which are believed to be dated around 3-4000 years ago, if not see here:

 

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=western+mummies+in+china&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=4M0DUuiiMorEPPDqgNAE&ved=0CGcQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=879

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarim_mummies

 

You will see plaited hair, long beards, white skin (reflected light?), tartan clothing, conical witches hats and herb containers etc.

 

While I doubt we will arrive at some conclusive answers here I wondered if anyone had any thoughts that can be added here.

 

I got involved with Druidry about the same time I did Taoism but through Tai Chi etc I went the way of the latter until a few years ago when failing to find a nearby practice group I joined a Druid group. Interestingly, I discovered that Druids believed in Awen; the flow of the Creative and how it is expressed in our life (like for instance the I-Ching) and Nwyfre (Welsh) or Imbas (Irish) for life energy e.g. Chi. They taught herbalism, believed in the appearance of the Adderstone (Taoism - Jade Pearl etc) when the spirit and Nwyfre settled in the 'lower cauldron' and told tales of immortality such as Ceridwen and Taliesin.

 

The bard Taliesin whose name means "Radiant Brow" wrote the Black book of Carmarthenshire which through cryptic clues and references to other scripts explains the art of inner alchemy. They also learned to divine by reading clouds, they wrote in talismans, they exorcised spirits and read the stars. All very similar huh?

 

There are too many similarities to write here but hopefully you get a sense of what I'm implying. The Romans wrote that the Druids wrote and spoke Greek and where known to have taken their teachings as far as Persia. Interesting to know that we in the West have a similar tradition to that in China even if does mean it has been lost to the images of dancing around stone circles etc.

 

Of course, the opposite may be true, the Chinese could have taught the Druids and they may have sent people to return with it.

 

Heath

Edited August 8, 2013 by Wayfarer

[rene]

Heath, hi, great topic, and thanks for those links. Are you a member of OBOD by chance?

 

I tend to think along the same lines as you re the connections. Sometimes there is a physical meeting of cultures, and sometimes isolate cultures evolve in strikingly similar ways!

 

Here's a footnote excerpt from "The Sacred Pipe, Black Elk's Account of the Seven Rites of the Oglala Sioux".

 

"Wakan-Tanka as Grandfather is the Great Spirit independent of manifestation, unqualified, unlimited, identical to the Christian Godhead, or to the Hindu Brahma-Nirguna. Wakan-Tanka as Father is Great Spirit as related to His manifestation either as Creator, Preserver, or Destroyer, identical to the Christian God, or to the Hindu Brahma-Saguna. .... (and in the next footnote) "As in the distinction made within Wakan-Tanka between Grandfather and Father, so the Earth is considered under two aspects, that of Mother and Grandmother. As Mother, the earth is considered as the producer of all growing things, in act; whereas Grandmother refers to the ground or substance of all growing things - potentiality. This distinction is the same as that made by Christian Scholastics between natura naturans and natura naturata."

 

Do you see the patterns? The seen and unseen? So cool. So druid. So tao. The rituals detailed in that book are very similar to others' rituals also. Fun stuff. (-:

 

warm regards

Edited August 8, 2013 by rene

[Wayfarer]

Heath, hi, great topic, and thanks for those links. Are you a member of OBOD by chance?

 

I tend to think along the same lines as you re the connections. Sometimes there is a physical meeting of cultures, and sometimes isolate cultures evolve in strikingly similar ways!

 

Here's a footnote excerpt from "The Sacred Pipe, Black Elk's Account of the Seven Rites of the Oglala Sioux".

 

"Wakan-Tanka as Grandfather is the Great Spirit independent of manifestation, unqualified, unlimited, identical to the Christian Godhead, or to the Hindu Brahma-Nirguna. Wakan-Tanka as Father is Great Spirit as related to His manifestation either as Creator, Preserver, or Destroyer, identical to the Christian God, or to the Hindu Brahma-Saguna. .... (and in the next footnote) "As in the distinction made within Wakan-Tanka between Grandfather and Father, so the Earth is considered under two aspects, that of Mother and Grandmother. As Mother, the earth is considered as the producer of all growing things, in act; whereas Grandmother refers to the ground or substance of all growing things - potentiality. This distinction is the same as that made by Christian Scholastics between natura naturans and natura naturata."

 

Do you see the patterns? The seen and unseen? So cool. So druid. So tao. The rituals detailed in that book are very similar to others' rituals also. Fun stuff. (-:

 

warm regards

 

Hi Rene,

 

Yes I am a member of OBOD are you? I did their Bardic course recently to discover a bit more about what Druids say about spirituality etc. To be honest I was attracted to the Ovate grade but I can't seem to get the point across to the tutors that I didn't really learn anything new from that bardic course but found it interesting nonetheless - so can't see me doing the other grade. How about you?

 

A great quote by Black Elk - he is mentioned in the Bardic course; about everything in life being like a circle etc. I will see if I can find any of his work. Do I see the links, oh yes. We are all talking about the same Thing one way or another. Good huh?

[Chang]

It seems too much of a coincidence that the remains of the extremely tall Europeans found in China are not related in some way to the legend of the Sons of Reflected Light. Unfortunately little research can be expected from the Chinese on this subject for the simple reason that they are uninterested in remains of non Chinese origin. Any suggestion that Chinese culture was enhanced by these red haired giants is a thought too terrible to even contemplate.

[Antares]

IMHO both Taoism and Druidism have they roots in "pre-historic Bon of Eurasia". Do not confuse it with modern Tibetan Bon which is very similar to Buddhism.

Some more information here: http://boandbon.com/contents.html

Edited August 9, 2013 by Antares

[三江源]

.

Edited October 22, 2015 by 三江源

[Apech]

Interesting idea of the spread of the Celts east as well as west. Always something very inspiring coming from Celtic culture ... the Mabinogion and Grail legends of course.

[Wayfarer]

I'm with you on this one Wayfarer. I'm celtic and my son has Taliesin as his middle name to honour the lineage.

 

Have you had a listen to Michael Tsarion? he has a lot of stuff on YouTube.

 

Thanks Cat, what a great name for your son. I will check out Michael Tsarion right away.

 

Apech...agreed, all interesting. And the picture of your cat (if it's yours) is brilliant...it doesn't need to say anything, you can see it is an enlightened sage lol.

 

Rene I've ordered one of Black Elk's books so thanks for that!

[Apech]

Thanks Cat, what a great name for your son. I will check out Michael Tsarion right away.

 

Apech...agreed, all interesting. And the picture of your cat (if it's yours) is brilliant...it doesn't need to say anything, you can see it is an enlightened sage lol.

 

Rene I've ordered one of Black Elk's books so thanks for that!

 

Sadly my cat 'Mr. White' passed on to the fields of peace last year ... hence why I/he is a ghost cat. He was/is enlightened for sure

 

I think I am right in saying that the Celts attributed their origins to Queen Scotia or Scota who fled from Troy along the North African coast to Iberia, France and Britain. Someone also indicated some link to Egypt for her ...

 

... just looked it up on wiki:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scota

 

 

Edward J. Cowan has traced the first appearance of Scota in literature to the 12th century.^[1] Scota appears in the Irish Book of Leinster(containing a redaction of the Lebor Gabála Érenn).^[2] However a recension found in an 11th-century manuscript of the Historia Brittonumcontains an earlier reference to Scota.^[3] The 12th century sources state that Scota was the daughter of an Egyptian pharaoh, a contemporary of Moses, who married Geytholos (Goídel Glas) and became the eponymous founders of the Scots and Gaels after being exiled from Egypt.^[4] The earliest Scottish sources claim Geytholos was "a certain king of the countries of Greece, Neolus, or Heolaus, by name", while the Lebor Gabála Érenn Leinster redaction in contrast describes him as a scythian. Other manuscripts of the Lebor Gabála Érenn contain a variant legend of Scota's husband, not as Goídel Glas but instead Mil Espaine and connect him to ancient Iberia.^[5][6][7]Although these legends vary, they all agree that Scota was the eponymous founder of the Scots and that she also gave her name toScotland.

Edited August 9, 2013 by Apech

[Antares]

No, no.... This is not celts. Celtic culture is the part of pre-historic Bon Shamanism as well as Nordic (German) culture and Siberian shamanism. Taoism has its roots in ancient shamanism as well as mentioned cultures. Only some aspects are common for all of them. But methods and some aspects differ in them. They have different goals I think. Druidism and shamanism have diff goals in comparison with spiritual teachings akin to alchemical Taoism and Dzogchen. Taoism is very vast and not everything is the same in it. And there was mix of ideas and conceptions between ancient Bon and local cultures and teachings and methods of new great teachers like Buddha or Lao Tzu who brought new ideas and modified teachings according to time and place. I would not say that Druidism and Taoism is the same thing. Let's say at present we don't have Druidism in the authentic form and it's lost.

Edited August 9, 2013 by Antares

[Apech]

No, no.... This is not celts. Celtic culture is the part of pre-historic Bon Shamanism as well as Nordic (German) culture and Siberian shamanism. Taoism has its roots in ancient shamanism as well as mentioned cultures. Only some aspects are common for all of them. But methods and some aspects differ in them. They have different goals I think. Druidism and shamanism have diff goals in comparison with spiritual teachings akin to alchemical Taoism and Dzogchen. Taoism is very vast and not everything is the same in it. And there was mix of ideas and conceptions between ancient Bon and local cultures and teachings and methods of new great teachers like Buddha or Lao Tzu who brought new ideas and modified teachings according to time and place. I would not say that Druidism and Taoism is the same thing. Let's say at present we don't have Druidism in the authentic form and it's lost.

 

 

Not quite following you here. What is not Celts?

 

I am of the view that all religion and practices derive ultimately from the shamanic practices of our pre-historic ancestors i.e. those that left Africa 60,000 years ago.

[rene]

Hi Rene,

 

Yes I am a member of OBOD are you? I did their Bardic course recently to discover a bit more about what Druids say about spirituality etc. To be honest I was attracted to the Ovate grade but I can't seem to get the point across to the tutors that I didn't really learn anything new from that bardic course but found it interesting nonetheless - so can't see me doing the other grade. How about you?

 

A great quote by Black Elk - he is mentioned in the Bardic course; about everything in life being like a circle etc. I will see if I can find any of his work. Do I see the links, oh yes. We are all talking about the same Thing one way or another. Good huh?

 

G'morning Heath (-:

 

I am not a member of OBOD, but like you I explored it thoroughly. I'm always on the lookout for something within relative reach to participate in that lines up with my own ideas...lol. Of course, the core of this 'same Thing' can be found in all traditions, within their own depths, but alas - the top layers of required interactions isn't my cup of tea. I love to sit in the back of a church to inhale the music and spiritual energy, but would not do well in their 'social functions', if you know what I mean. The Ovate grade appealed to me as well.. yet the more I looked into it, it became clear I was already doing all those things and more - so I let that pass by. Besides, you and I already have a teacher for these things.

 

Which Black Elk book did you order? The one I quoted is good, and the best one to experience his original vision is "Black Elk Speaks, by John G. Neihardt".

[rene]

IMHO both Taoism and Druidism have they roots in "pre-historic Bon of Eurasia". Do not confuse it with modern Tibetan Bon which is very similar to Buddhism.

Some more information here: http://boandbon.com/contents.html

 

Antares - thanks for that link. That may become my summer read as time allows... has it been well received overall?

[rene]

No, no.... This is not celts. Celtic culture is the part of pre-historic Bon Shamanism as well as Nordic (German) culture and Siberian shamanism. Taoism has its roots in ancient shamanism as well as mentioned cultures. Only some aspects are common for all of them. But methods and some aspects differ in them. They have different goals I think. Druidism and shamanism have diff goals in comparison with spiritual teachings akin to alchemical Taoism and Dzogchen. Taoism is very vast and not everything is the same in it. And there was mix of ideas and conceptions between ancient Bon and local cultures and teachings and methods of new great teachers like Buddha or Lao Tzu who brought new ideas and modified teachings according to time and place. I would not say that Druidism and Taoism is the same thing. Let's say at present we don't have Druidism in the authentic form and it's lost.

 

Agree, with both thoughts. It's what's at the core of each that interest me - and the Bon might be a clue, if not it.

[gendao]

I do wonder about possible Atlantean diaspora "root" cultures or common denominators between various "similar" cross-cultural characteristics from thousands of years ago?

 

BTW, is anyone here well-versed with Celtic weaves and other ancient European or Mid East sacred geometry & esoteric symbology?

[Wayfarer]

G'morning Heath (-:

 

I am not a member of OBOD, but like you I explored it thoroughly. I'm always on the lookout for something within relative reach to participate in that lines up with my own ideas...lol. Of course, the core of this 'same Thing' can be found in all traditions, within their own depths, but alas - the top layers of required interactions isn't my cup of tea. I love to sit in the back of a church to inhale the music and spiritual energy, but would not do well in their 'social functions', if you know what I mean. The Ovate grade appealed to me as well.. yet the more I looked into it, it became clear I was already doing all those things and more - so I let that pass by. Besides, you and I already have a teacher for these things.

 

Which Black Elk book did you order? The one I quoted is good, and the best one to experience his original vision is "Black Elk Speaks, by John G. Neihardt".

 

I bought the Black Elk Speaks one, so looking forward to getting it. Yes, I appreciate what you mean about your view of the grades...I'd thought perhaps I may be able to help people to get a deeper connection with the "Way/Tao" through nature and the courses would help me to understand the "Druid" angle but as Antares points out, Druidry is lost really - we have brief descriptions from Roman times and have the poetry/songs of Bards and of Ireland to refer which are giving scholars new understanding but even so...no matter where you look it comes back to the same thing...there are either a kind of 'superstitious' belief practices i.e. a drought occurs because we haven't pleased God or there are the 'Realisation' based ways of Buddhism/Taoism - whichever, they get lost beneath endless metaphors and misunderstandings. And what better teacher do we need than the one we all have?

 

I look forward to reading Black Elk with a cup of tea and a cool shady spot under a tree somewhere - that's all the religion I need. I'll come back to you Rene once I've read some of it.

 

Best wishes everyone.

 

Heath

Edited August 10, 2013 by Wayfarer

[Wayfarer]

IMHO both Taoism and Druidism have they roots in "pre-historic Bon of Eurasia". Do not confuse it with modern Tibetan Bon which is very similar to Buddhism.

Some more information here: http://boandbon.com/contents.html

 

I will read this, it looks very interesting. Thanks for the link.

[hod]

This article makes me think about something that has fascinated me for years. I won't go into it too much hear because it's really not the place and I don't want to go off topic too much, but I thought it was at least worth a mentioning in the case that it got anyone else interested in the subject (although I would not suggest continuing the conversation on this post due to it not being on the specific subject of the thread). And if anyone wants some more info about it, PM me and I can give you some links to the very few sites that take it seriously.

 

All over the world people have found the remains of red haired "giants." They use the term giants because they vary in size from 7 foot up to 12 feet tall. From the United States, to England, to Asia, to South America, red haired giants have been found as either mummies or skeletons. Some have two rows of teeth, some have six fingers and toes, some have been found wearing suits of bronze armor but all of them have red hair. It seems to be a world-wide phenomena that no historian wants to touch in explaining. These Sons of Reflected Light seem to be just one of the many stories that surround this strange per-historic phenomena of some sort of gigantic human race that had a culture that spread to every corner of the planet.

 

Edit: My wife rolls her eyes... the giants again.

Edited August 10, 2013 by hod

[Apech]

This article makes me think about something that has fascinated me for years. I won't go into it too much hear because it's really not the place and I don't want to go off topic too much, but I thought it was at least worth a mentioning in the case that it got anyone else interested in the subject (although I would not suggest continuing the conversation on this post due to it not being on the specific subject of the thread). And if anyone wants some more info about it, PM me and I can give you some links to the very few sites that take it seriously.

 

All over the world people have found the remains of red haired "giants." They use the term giants because they vary in size from 7 foot up to 12 feet tall. From the United States, to England, to Asia, to South America, red haired giants have been found as either mummies or skeletons. Some have two rows of teeth, some have six fingers and toes, some have been found wearing suits of bronze armor but all of them have red hair. It seems to be a world-wide phenomena that no historian wants to touch in explaining. These Sons of Reflected Light seem to be just one of the many stories that surround this strange per-historic phenomena of some sort of gigantic human race that had a culture that spread to every corner of the planet.

 

Edit: My wife rolls her eyes... the giants again.

 

 

Got any links for this?

[rene]

Got any links for this?

 

ditto that.

 

post links here plz?

[hod]

The reason I didn't post any of them is because everyone who "researches" them has alternative motives and pushes agendas I don't necessarily agree with. It is the base facts of their research that interest me (i.e. finding giant red haired skeletons and mummies) and not everything else they try to say their finds mean.

Case in point, the guy who has done the most research on the subject, Steve Quayle, is using his research to prove the existence of the Bible's Nephilim. I'll post a link to his stuff (http://www.genesis6giants.com/), but I do not agree with his interpretations at all but the base facts of his research are what interests me. You might have to get this book Genesis 6 to really see the extent of his research (it's newspaper articles from around the world of people who dug up giants while tilling fields or breaking ground for new buildings).

Another interesting subject is the Mississippi Mound Builders, Many of the American giants have been found in these mounds and very early researchers of them believed them to be made by a race of giants who lived in the Americas before the Native Americans (Traditions of the De-Coo-Dah http://books.google.fr/books?id=cMMSsVLlrxsC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false).

 

It's a very quasi-archeological subject with no real unbiased research going into it yet so you have to take from it what the base facts are and try to ignore the authors biases.

 

Edit: Here's another site that links to a lot of stuff (http://www.sydhav.no/giants/giants.htm). But once again, I don't believe in it all, you really have to sift through a lot of rubbish to find the base facts of it all.

Edited August 10, 2013 by hod

[rene]

thanks, hod, for the links and thoughts... and we're pretty used to sifting through rubbish to get to the core of things (-:

 

and thanks, Wayfarer, for letting us tangent the topic for a brief sec. most appreciated.

[三江源]

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Edited August 17, 2013 by cat

[Wayfarer]

This is great stuff. I will check out the links. There are pictures in Africa and Egypt of giant skeletons etc so you usually find these myths are based on some truth.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Wayfarer

[silent thunder]

I remember when I first encountered the Tao, I was struck by how similar its core concepts were to druidic cosmology.