Chapter 1, Section 1 Concepts

[rene]

Instead of looking at things and people from the standpoint of, what use are they to me? We look at their potential and what they are....

 

Just see what they are, without adding on to them.

 

OH, since Yin/ Yang is a foundation, then with the Quail and the Peng, it goes both ways.

 

The quail can not understand the peng. The peng can not understand the quail, either.

 

One is too large to see the beauty of the flowers and the other is too small to see the majesty of the mountain tops...

 

This varies with your earlier post about the quail and peng... the one that compared the q/p story with closed mindedness and open mindedness? The way you expressed it earlier is how it's portrayed in ZZ.

 

These discussions might show this as a running difference between LZ and ZZ.

 

If the bulk of ZZ prefers yin to yang (or yang to yin) then the balance reflected in LZ is lost.

 

Nice to see you've reverted back to more of an LZ idea.

 

OH, btw? I've read all your posts in TTB and you're anything but a newbie.

 

warm regards

 

[rene]

 

Also changes how our ego exists. It wants to be important! If that part is dropped, what does it do?

 

My 'ego' isn't something I concern myself with; and I leave others to deal with their own, if they wish. (-:

[Uroboros]

I was re-reading this -

1: Is azure the proper colour of the sky?

IN THE Northern Ocean there is a fish, the name of which is Kun [1], – I do not know how many li [1 li = ca. 500 m] in size. It changes into a bird with the name of Peng, the back of which is (also) – I do not know how many li in extent. When this bird rouses itself and flies, its wings are like clouds all round the sky. When the sea is moved (so as to bear it along), it prepares to remove to the Southern Ocean [darkness]. The Southern Ocean is the Lake of Heaven.

There is the (book called) The Universal Harmony [2], – a record of marvels. We have in it these words: 'When the Peng journeys to the Southern Ocean it flaps (its wings) on the water for 3000 li. Then it ascends on a whirlwind 90,000 li, and it rests only at the end of six months.' (But similar to this is the movement of the breezes which we call) the horses of the fields, of the dust (which quivers in the sunbeams), and of living things as they are blown against one another by the air [3]. Is its azure the proper colour of the sky? Or is it occasioned by its distance and illimitable extent? If one were looking down (from above), the very same appearance would just meet his view.

 

Are they speaking of how the large affects the small?

 

How the wind of the Peng flying ripples out and affects all the myriad things in its wake?

 

If so, is that talking about a cosmogenesis or cultivation?

 

Maybe its saying that a person who is highly cultivated, when they move, they are capable of sending ripples into the world with their being.

 

Hmm....Dunno. Must ponder more.

 

What do you fine people think?

[Marblehead]

Distractions...I dont consider various view points to be distractions. I consider them opportunities to expand my mind, look at it from different angles and see if I can grow.

 

Peace.

Exactly. If they don't fit in anywhere we can always discard them. But every now and again one of the distractions will allow us to view something from a different angle and it might just be a piece we were missing.

 

And this fits right in with the relativity of all things.

[Marblehead]

sigh.. CD that's not what i meant... i sent you a pm earlier. Go read it maybe?

 

(sorry for interruption, MH)

That's okay. At least the two of you are having a somewhat civil side-conversation.

 

And you know how I feel about being spontaneous. Hehehe.

[Uroboros]

Rene- I do love the way of looking at it from open-mindedness and closed mindedness. That has always been a big deal to me. Expanding, staying open...Life is just more fun that way.

 

So, are you saying that LZ flips between Yin/ Yang to Yang/ Yin to show how they go both ways but the ZZ does not as often?

 

You read all of my posts?! Whoa...Thank you for the compliment!

 

I do tend to consider my self a baby, though. Compared to the more...mm...experienced and cultivated people that have and do exist.

 

You dont concern your self with your ego? You just let it do its thing? How interesting....

 

Peace.

[Marblehead]

Marblehead- I enjoyed that story, too! It had no use to others and so it was able to become its fullest expression.

You are doing great. Keep it up, you are adding much to the discussion.

[Marblehead]

... what does it do?

It does the job it was intended to do, watching out for our survival.

[Uroboros]

Marblehead- Yep, if we feel they dont fit, them we let it go! It takes so little effort to go into a direction and see whats there...then let it go if its not what we need.

 

Very often, in my experience, the distraction IS the piece I needed. Hah!

 

Life has been funny that way for me.

 

Relativity is everywhere!!!! like a ghost in the mist.

 

Spontaneity is a great thing! At times. (relativity)

[Marblehead]

Nice to see you've reverted back to more of an LZ idea.

Of course you would think that is nice. Hehehe.

[Uroboros]

Marblehead- Im glad my mind droppings are helpful and add some spices!

 

Tis quite a bit of fun to discuss such things. to understand more about it.

 

 

Ohh...the ego put in its proper place, left to its own devices does its original job..... How funny would it be if enlightenment and such was that simple..

 

Stop holding onto the ego and it can then do whats its supposed to do and you can be what you naturally are.....

[Marblehead]

What do you fine people think?

No. You think on your own. Hehehe. Many questions. Good. You mentioned the word "perception" earlier. That might have something to do with it. It is also something Chuang will speak to more. Think Tao.

[Marblehead]

Spontaneity is a great thing! At times. (relativity)

Yes, relatively speaking.

[Uroboros]

Aww, Marblehead! You dont want to ponder the questions with me? Oh well. I will share whatever I happen to come upon.

 

Ohhh, questions are my bread and butter. Good questions help the finding of good answers...sometimes.

 

Perception is incredibly powerful and intricate...I often ponder the question- if something is not perceived, does it exist?

 

so far, I am at the point of- Since everything I know or think or experience is thru my awareness/ perception....Then no.

 

Now I want to find out whats behind the perception....muaahahhah! (dramatic)

 

Relativity....Where does unity come into play? Wholeism... Both instead of either. Ok, I think im getting off track here.

 

I shall get back on ZZ.

 

Peace.

[rene]

Rene- I do love the way of looking at it from open-mindedness and closed mindedness. That has always been a big deal to me. Expanding, staying open...Life is just more fun that way.

 

So, are you saying that LZ flips between Yin/ Yang to Yang/ Yin to show how they go both ways but the ZZ does not as often?

 

Actually, "yin" and "yang" appear only once in The Laozi (if memory serves...).

 

What I'm saying is that Li Erh saw the value in both the big and the small, the hard and the soft, the open and the closed. Either text, LZ or ZZ, that is rendered to suggest one is always preferable over the other..misses the point. My read is that, for the most part, the stories in ZZ miss that point. Maybe as we explore the other chapters, Marblehead can show me how this is not the case. (-:

 

 

Ohh...the ego put in its proper place, left to its own devices does its original job..... How funny would it be if enlightenment and such was that simple..

 

Stop holding onto the ego and it can then do whats its supposed to do and you can be what you naturally are.....

 

You dont concern your self with your ego? You just let it do its thing? How interesting....

 

Peace.

 

Interesting? Pretty boring, imo. I never saw my ego as important enough to try and get rid of it, so I don't keep it inflated by feeding it with all the attention it would receive otherwise...in an attempt to suppress it.

[Stosh]

He's trying to keep things on track Dont take it personal be patient,, Like I am never.

[rene]

Aww, Marblehead! You dont want to ponder the questions with me? Oh well. I will share whatever I happen to come upon.

 

Ohhh, questions are my bread and butter. Good questions help the finding of good answers...sometimes.

 

Perception is incredibly powerful and intricate...I often ponder the question- if something is not perceived, does it exist?

 

so far, I am at the point of- Since everything I know or think or experience is thru my awareness/ perception....Then no.

 

Now I want to find out whats behind the perception....muaahahhah! (dramatic)

 

Relativity....Where does unity come into play? Wholeism... Both instead of either. Ok, I think im getting off track here.

 

I shall get back on ZZ.

 

Peace.

 

Geezus uroboros, you go faster than CD

[Uroboros]

Rene- Hm...I dont remember yin/ yang being spoken of explicitly in my translation of the TTJ....Yet the principles were there...in some places...I will have to go back and look again.

 

I look forward to seeing what ZZ said and meant....understanding the view point and message.

 

I think its interesting that you chose to take that path, Rene.

 

Stosh- Oh, im not offended. At all. Maybe the playful-ness of my response did not come thru?

 

Patience!!! My old foe....we meet again.

 

 

Rene- Yea...Sometimes I go nowhere and sometimes I run off into the sunset and fall into quicksand.

[Stosh]

What I'm saying is that Li Erh saw the value in both the big and the small, the hard and the soft, the open and the closed. Either text, LZ or ZZ, that is rendered to suggest one is always preferable over the other..misses the point. My read is that, for the most part, the stories in ZZ miss that point.

Woo Hoooo ! Somebody else ( you) said that ! Finally !

[Marblehead]

Yeah, and we are making this thread look like we actually know what we are doing. That's good.

[Marblehead]

Woo Hoooo ! Somebody else ( you) said that ! Finally !

Well, I'm not going to say anything yet. We'll see as we progress through the chapters.

 

So anyhow, we are still with the concepts of Relativity and Usefulness. Anyone see anything else in the chapter that appears to be significant?

[rene]

Rene- Hm...I dont remember yin/ yang being spoken of explicitly in my translation of the TTJ....Yet the principles were there...in some places...I will have to go back and look again.

 

As you do, you might keep this in mind.

 

 

 

I look forward to seeing what ZZ said and meant....understanding the view point and message.

 

I think its interesting that you chose to take that path, Rene.

 

To which path are you referring?

[rene]

Woo Hoooo ! Somebody else ( you) said that ! Finally !

 

LOL sorry I took so long. Nice to see I'm not the only one.

[Uroboros]

We know what we are doing?!!? I have no idea what im doing! Im just.....doing...sorta..

 

OK, i will go into the chapter again and see what else is in it surrounding those principles.

 

Rene- thank you! I will read your article and keep it in mind.

 

The path of not putting effort/ energy into the ego. Thats what I found interesting. I find lots of things interesting since im curious by nature.

 

Its just that I see few people who truly just...pay no mind to the mind. HAH! I crack my self up.....

[Stosh]

Rene ,, Soitenly Not !

 

Mh , is the six month flight ,not a reference to a half year?