Uroboros Posted August 9, 2013 (edited) IF WATER is not heaped up deep enough, it will not have the strength to support a big boat. Upset a cup of water in a cavity, and a straw will float on it as if it were a boat. Place a cup in it, and it will stick fast; – the water is shallow and the boat is large. (So it is with) the accumulation of wind; if it be not great, it will not have strength to support great wings. Here they are speaking of relativity in way. About how the quantity of a substance interacts with another thing. Hm...not just comparisons but also interactions. This may also be tying into doing just the right amount at the right time. To float the water must be deep and wide enough to carry the boat, the wind must be great enough to lift the peng... Edit- It also seems to be talking about the effort it requires to do things. Small effort for small things, large effort for large things... Explaining that to carry the sky on your back, to fly across the world for 6 months, requires "great wind". Edited August 9, 2013 by Uroboros Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted August 9, 2013 IF WATER is not heaped up deep enough, it will not have the strength to support a big boat. Upset a cup of water in a cavity, and a straw will float on it as if it were a boat. Place a cup in it, and it will stick fast; – the water is shallow and the boat is large. (So it is with) the accumulation of wind; if it be not great, it will not have strength to support great wings. Here they are speaking of relativity in way. About how the quantity of a substance interacts with another thing. Hm...not just comparisons but also interactions. This may also be tying into doing just the right amount at the right time. To float the water must be deep and wide enough to carry the boat, the wind must be great enough to lift the peng... Yep thats where I was going too , As it is above so it is below , and so forth ,,, drawing analogies to show phenomena ,, in a way already understood,, and demonstrate the principles are still the same. Whichever perspective you look from. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Uroboros Posted August 9, 2013 Stosh- I do enjoy the As Above, So Below, As within, So without principle.... That does seem to be the thing about many of the Taoist texts...The forms change yet the substance (principle) does not. Seeing and experiencing that is the hard part, I feel. Perspective...there it is again...hmm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rene Posted August 9, 2013 (edited) It might also be a nod to Laozi's 'adapt to your surroundings' (ddj8), - the rest of Legge's " 2: The mushroom of the morning: Return to a third meal" seems like it might be anyway. But I dont want to start reading into ZZ something that not might be there - based on a 'feel' of familiarity. I'll need to yield to others as to ZZ's concept intents, and as soon as you all decide on something I might have something Li Erh-ish to say (-: Edited August 9, 2013 by rene Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 9, 2013 HAH! I crack my self up..... Hehehe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 9, 2013 Rene ,, Soitenly Not ! Mh , is the six month flight ,not a reference to a half year? Or it could just be indicating a relatively long time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted August 9, 2013 (edited) Or it could just be indicating a relatively long time. Six months ? Thats not a very long time Sir. there are real birds that stay aloft for years! Edited August 9, 2013 by Stosh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 9, 2013 Here they are speaking of relativity in way. About how the quantity of a substance interacts with another thing. Hm...not just comparisons but also interactions. Sure, this may be where Giles was speaking to his "Relativity of Magnitudes, physical and moral" concepts. It took me a couple readings of that water thing before I felt I understood what he was saying. Of course, I am still open for addtional insight. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 9, 2013 " 2: The mushroom of the morning: Return to a third meal" seems like it might be anyway. Yeah, I think we are still talking about physical relativity here. But I dont want to start reading into ZZ something that not might be there - based on a 'feel' of familiarity. I'll need to yield to others as to ZZ's concept intents, and as soon as you all decide on something I might have something Li Erh-ish to say (-: You just keep on. I think you are going to be pleasantly surprised. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 9, 2013 Six months ? Thats not a very long time Sir. there are real birds that stay aloft for years! And there are midge flies that live for less than one full day. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rene Posted August 9, 2013 Yeah, I think we are still talking about physical relativity here. You just keep on. I think you are going to be pleasantly surprised. I'll try, but, okay see this is why ZZ drives me nuts. simple ideas found in the laozi are convoluted and smothered with too many words that only confuse the ideas rather than clarify them. not sure I can sit and watch you guys go sideways (and it's just getting started!) for very long. you didn't even catch that what i posted IS about physical relativity, just like the rest of the chapter. See how much ZZ twirls you around? Others might find this entertaining, like watching congressional debates and speeches, but not sure it's my cup of tea. I'll watch for a while, since you've asked me to, and when a pleasant surprise comes, you'll be the first to know. (-: fair enough? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 9, 2013 I'll watch for a while, since you've asked me to, and when a pleasant surprise comes, you'll be the first to know. (-: fair enough? I didn't mean only watch. Hehehe. I love your input and I do agree with you regarding the simplicity of Lao Tzu and the complexity of Chuang Tzu. However, to justify, many people do not understand Lao Tzu even though they think they do. Chuang Tzu is story time for the kids. Lao Tzu said "Don't do that." Chuang Tzu said "This are the many reasons you shouldn't do that." And see, with you and all the others engaged in the discussions it will offer us all and including the non-participating readers a much better chance to understand the concepts in the TTC. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted August 9, 2013 And there are midge flies that live for less than one full day. But they at least get the deed done venerable one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted August 9, 2013 I'll try, but, okay see this is why ZZ drives me nuts. simple ideas found in the laozi are convoluted and smothered with too many words that only confuse the ideas rather than clarify them. not sure I can sit and watch you guys go sideways (and it's just getting started!) for very long. you didn't even catch that what i posted IS about physical relativity, just like the rest of the chapter. See how much ZZ twirls you around? Others might find this entertaining, like watching congressional debates and speeches, but not sure it's my cup of tea. I'll watch for a while, since you've asked me to, and when a pleasant surprise comes, you'll be the first to know. (-: fair enough? Easy easy lovely star, the night doth only magnify your radience. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rene Posted August 9, 2013 Okay. I didn't mean only watch. Hehehe. I love your input and I do agree with you regarding the simplicity of Lao Tzu and the complexity of Chuang Tzu. However, to justify, many people do not understand Lao Tzu even though they think they do. Chuang Tzu is story time for the kids. Lao Tzu said "Don't do that." Chuang Tzu said "This are the many reasons you shouldn't do that." And see, with you and all the others engaged in the discussions it will offer us all and including the non-participating readers a much better chance to understand the concepts in the TTC. And, fwiw, The Laozi doesn't say "Don't do that." It says, "If you choose to do this... that will likely happen." It's the downstream -isms that have turned the TTC into a rule book, to support their other rule books. I've no problem with rules (just ask the mods, lol); I do have a dislike for twisted disingenuous interpretations and renditions being passed off as the original concepts. Story-time for kids is good. I like stories. (-: And maybe we'll see what ZZ's stories are really based on. Or not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 9, 2013 But they at least get the deed done venerable one. True. But to be able to do it only once in a lifetime isn't fair, I think. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 9, 2013 The Laozi doesn't say "Don't do that." It says, "If you choose to do this... that will likely happen." I know. But the "Don't do this." worked better for my story. Hehehe. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted August 9, 2013 We are in the same storm tossed boat , and yet lounge sleepily. The dawn always comes with its work to do. . And in that hour we may do it best having slept. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted August 9, 2013 True. But to be able to do it only once in a lifetime isn't fair, I think. Dunno, for every thing there is a season . I'm thinking the six month thing is just a casual reference to the ascendency of yang and its return to the mother. Just a minor intro to the cyclic nature of life , honorable teacher. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 9, 2013 Is that suggesting that it is time to put this chapter to sleep? I will post Chapter 2 sometime tomorrow. But this will still be here for others to read and comment on. Yeah, we will talk about the empty boat too somewhere along the way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 9, 2013 Dunno, for every thing there is a season . I'm thinking the six month thing is just a casual reference to the ascendency of yang and its return to the mother. Just a minor intro to the cyclic nature of life , honorable teacher. Okay. But I'm sure we will be talking about yin and yang and the mother and our return and cycles and reversions and transmutations and all kinds of other things too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted August 9, 2013 I will post Chapter 2 sometime tomorrow. Not yet, let's wait six months. Chapter One still has a long way to go yet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rene Posted August 9, 2013 I know. But the "Don't do this." worked better for my story. Hehehe. Right. "Don't do this" works better for a lot of peoples' stories. That's my point. You gonna go with 'what works better for my story' in this exploration? That's okay, it's the same thing ZZ did. It's just good to know upfront whats what. (-: Is that suggesting that it is time to put this chapter to sleep? I will post Chapter 2 sometime tomorrow. But this will still be here for others to read and comment on. Yeah, we will talk about the empty boat too somewhere along the way. Are you done with Ch1 already after just 24hrs since starting? Is this going to be a chapter every two days project? Maybe CD or somebody else would like to say something? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted August 9, 2013 As it should be, and deem it thou . To sleep and sleep unheeded the morning rushes on. What azure skies or misty veils present the morrow? Unknown and fresh twill be revealed So patient we retire. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
