Chapter 1, Section 1 Concepts

[Marblehead]

very true, and time will tell if it is actually the case or not. until then, anything's possible.

Hehehe. Forever anything's possible. (Many are not probable though.)

[Stosh]

Maybe the wind is Qi. Breath/ Qi. In the failed attempts thread, Taomeow suggested that- "In the Northern Deep there is a great fish, thousands of miles long. It turns into a giant bird whose back is thousands of miles in size. When it gets aroused and takes to flight, its wings are like clouds covering the sky." Could be Taiji. I had not thought of that at all. Now looking at it..the wind could be Qi. Qi is created by the movement of Kun to Peng... Maybe a reference to the bellows in the TTC... Hmm....I am still pondering this idea. Peace.

OR it could be marblehead waking up from a nap.

[Stosh]

^{Is there any chance that the Peng is a bat or dragon , which might suggest a dark thing in a light sky ,}

^{versus a silvery fish in a dark sea ,, and therefore reminicent of the tai chi symbol?}

Edited August 15, 2013 by Stosh

[Marblehead]

^{Is there any chance that the Peng is a bat or dragon , which might suggest a dark thing in a light sky ,}

^{versus a silvery fish in a dark sea ,, and therefore reminicent of the tai chi symbol?}

Yeah, this little story is tricky. So far we haven't even talked about the concept of "the transformation of things" (from the fish to the bird).

 

I would suspect that the Peng could have been a dragon in Chuang Tzu mind.

 

Yes, the two fish are the tai chi symbol. Fish are an important symbol in many cultures.

 

Just last night I watched a documentary on the demise of Atlantis and an important offering to the gods was two fish.

[Stosh]

I was just suggesting an alternate visualization which would superimpose over two 'fishes'.

Im saying they arent neccesarily fish at all. Who says they are fish? they have no fins or gills.

They have no scales. They could be two mating sea slugs , a swirl of cream in a dark coffee.

more fanciful still they could be a circling tiger and dragon !

Did Zz (or Lao) say they are always both fish ?

Or could they sometimes be a guy with white skin floating over the earth?

 

Atlantis ? Dude If they existed and if they sacrificed a goat ,is the Taiji now a goat? Cmon.

[Marblehead]

When was the last time I told you that you think too much? Apparently too long ago.

 

Stosh! You think too much. Hehehe.

I was just suggesting an alternate visualization which would superimpose over two 'fishes'.

Im saying they arent neccesarily fish at all. Who says they are fish? they have no fins or gills.

They have no scales. They could be two mating sea slugs , a swirl of cream in a dark coffee.

more fanciful still they could be a circling tiger and dragon !

Yes, they can be anything you want them to be.

 

Did Zz (or Lao) say they are always both fish ?

Nope. That was my interpretation. Sometimes I think too much.

 

Or could they sometimes be a guy with white skin floating over the earth?

I suppose they could.

 

Atlantis ? Dude If they existed and if they sacrificed a goat ,is the Taiji now a goat? Cmon.

Actually, they did sacrifice a bull but that didn't help either. They were about to sacrifice a young man when all hell broke loose. Everyone died!

[Stosh]

I dont remember when you told me I think to much.. I've been too busy thinking.

But seriously ,Im just not one to Ohhh I get it !

but in my private secret mind be thinking huh?

Theres lots and lots of stuff in the work to investigate

evidence to come to various conclusions.

Im tossing some of them to suggest that there is more than just the

overview to be considered,, there are nuances, twists , jokes.

Otherwise its like reading the Christian bible and walking away with

only the "Golden rule".

Im saying "loosen up folks, use the other side of your brain"

Edited August 15, 2013 by Stosh

[Marblehead]

I dont remember when you told me I think to much.. I've been too busy thinking.

But seriously ,Im just not one to Ohhh I get it !

but in my private secret mind be thinking huh?

Theres lots and lots of stuff in the work to investigate

evidence to come to various conclusions.

Im tossing some of them to suggest that there is more than just the

overview to be considered,, there are nuances, twists , jokes.

Otherwise its like reading the Christian bible and walking away with

only the "Golden rule".

Im saying "loosen up folks, use the other side of your brain"

Yes, I know you are wanting answers to your questions. No blame for that.

 

It is just that sometimes you ask questions I can't answer. I'm not going to fake it or offer you BS. You know when I BS around.

 

Yes, I am sure there are aspects to The Chuang Tzu that I haven't recognized. This is one of the reason I enjoy doing the study - to gain better understanding and to be pointed out things that I have missed.

 

We will be okay though, one way or another.

[Stosh]

That's what I am thinking too Mh ,the only one of us that may think you are supposed to have thought of everything, know everything in order to teach and investigate the topic is not me. If it was all figured out.. cut dried and put away neatly like Cd is pretending we could just buy the Cliffs Notes memorize it , and then it would all just be common knowlege ..like how to play tic tac toe.

The best hosts on tv or journalists in the news are themselves investigatintg even when they already have a solid understanding of the subject.u

If I cared to I could just google up what so and so said on the subject , but then all I might consider is what so and so found interesting. Besides ,if someone doesn't think Ming ling is just a random tree, because the written symbol indicates one of those forest things, then the author wanted it to be ambiguous. .wanted it to be examined. It never was supposed to be a literal quid pro quo situation.

So although one could provide rationale for picking a certain meaning , there is no FACT of it.

Is a peng a monster a bird an albino guy? As the several perspectives are demonstrating the answer is that it is... but not as a factual certainty. It is illusion, things that appear to be- literally Are, and yet there is no objective fact of it.because it os a subjective story.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Stosh

[doc benway]

^{Is there any chance that the Peng is a bat or dragon , which might suggest a dark thing in a light sky ,}

 

 

I would suspect that the Peng could have been a dragon in Chuang Tzu mind.

 

Unlikely - peng is a mythological creature that is a very large bird, similar to a roc in Western mythology.

It's frequently encountered in Chinese mythology and often in the names of Chinese martial arts postures and movements.

I'm no scholar, but I think Zhuangzi would have said dragon if he meant dragon as it has very specific connotations.

[rene]

Steve, glad you are here to provide some background. (-:

[doc benway]

Steve, glad you are here to provide some background. (-:

Thanks Rene - I just looked at the wiki article and highly recommend that anyone interested in the Zhuangzi read it.

I didn't realize this but the Peng/Kun myth actually started with the Zhuangzi - I thought it predated him. The wiki article is very informative and gets into some interesting interpretations of the story.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peng_(mythology)

[ChiDragon]

 

I'm no scholar, but I think Zhuangzi would have said dragon if he meant dragon as it has very specific connotations.

 

Yes, as a general rule, it is advisable not to add or subtract anything to the original idea to confuse the issue under discussion.

[rene]

 

Yes, as a general rule, it is advisable not to add or subtract anything to the original idea to confuse the issue under discussion.

 

Agree. Enough confusion can come without adding more. (-:

 

 

 

p.s..check your PM's

[Gypsy]

Now what? Well, after we finish chapter 33 we could try living for a while.

kool

praising the beloved and all it's manifestations, for now!! and life lives on.....♥