[rainbow]

[lotusbud]

Hi Rainbow,

 

Also, I have personally experienced, although on a small level, the phenomenon that is Chi but I have failed to find an explanation for it. I read an article about the scientific verification of meridians and how they are conductive to the flow of electricity but how does one distinguish chi from electricity?

 

It's too simplistic to just equate chi with electricity. It's more complex than that. There are many that say that qi, shen, void etc are all different energies or particles with totally different properties and effects.

 

Does anyone have an explanation of chi that corresponds with particle physics? That would leave my mind content.

 

Science is currently way behind in trying to observe, measure and theorize about this energy. Any close look at the current state of particle physics tells us that the world is much stranger than we ever imagined.

 

There is a huge gap between what we know from experience as practitioners and what we can understand using science. Part of the problem seems to be in designing good scientific studies that can have consistent results. Repeatable results.

 

The other big problem is funding and interest. There is a lot of cash out there for research but if it's not going to produce a pill you aren't going to see a cent of it.

 

It seems to be that if real scientific work is going to be done on understanding the human body and nature it will be because taoist thought has gained enough cultural momentum to really make it a priority for us. We have to build and live the culture capable of doing it. We are a long way off, it seems. But things are changing faster every day.

 

With all this in mind, I truly think its really useful to be ok just not knowing. Just wondering. Just wondering opens you up to possibility just as knowing for sure closes the door. I would be suspicious of any answer that didn't bring up more fascinating questions.

[hagar]

The nature of science is based on observation. The ancient sages observed nature through an open awareness, and were in this way very scientific. Learn how to observe yourself internally and cultivate emptiness, and the sensation chi will become stronger. Only through training yourself at perceiving reality in new and more subtle ways will you get the answers you are looking for.

 

To open your awareness, open your heart. This is done through letting go of concepts and previously held beliefs of how the world and your mind works. Through meditation every day these subtle and insubstantial aspects of reality will become clearer. Understanding of the inexpressible source of reality, named Tao cannot be understood or explained scientifically, and thus any explanations we may hold in our minds are always limited to our preconditioned beliefs.

 

Understanding of the Tao, and what is natural and unnatural is only reached through practice, not through thinking. Thinking and explanations comes after. But as a startingpoint, what is "natural" in a taoist sense is whatever is created spontaneously, without intention. This means that "unnatural" is not "bad", but not totally in alignment with nature. In this way, Tao is present in everyone and everything that is spontaneous and non-intentional- it is just as much part of the Big Mac you bite into on the street as it is present in the hermit's cave in China.

 

Any form of creative activity, which most human actions or artifacts are based on has at some point tapped into the tao. An idea, a creative urge, is always coming from the tao. So in this way you can say that any human activity or object has at some point tapped into the Tao. That's how we got electricity, TVs, cars, cell phones, commercials etc. How we utilize these ideas are definately not always from the Tao.

 

But understanding it all from a cerebral perspective is counterproductive. So to your initial statement that the Tao is open to interpretation, I'll say this: The part of you that is watching you interpret is definately not open for interpretation. And that is the gateway to the mystery of life, and the Tao.

 

Thinking about this is like trying to become a surfer, and know how to surf without ever diving into the ocean and trying to catch the waves.

 

 

h

Edited May 4, 2007 by hagar

[mbanu]

[rex]

Does anyone have an explanation of chi that corresponds with particle physics? That would leave my mind content.

Haven't got an explanation, just an assertion based on perennial philosophy: mind, matter and energy are inseparable.

[thaddeus]

 

Does anyone have an explanation of chi that corresponds with particle physics? That would leave my mind content.

Does particle physics have any explanations of chi?

The problem with the word 'chi' is that it's a catch all term that means just about anything. In ancient times, if someone didn't understand how something worked, they said chi. For example, a person who could lift 200 pounds had a lot of chi, now we know differently. So if you're specific about what you're asking about, i'm sure there's a scientific explanation for it. Talking chi, imho, is just cloudy thinking.

T

[Eric23]

In Tao, the Watercourse Way, Allan Watts equates the problem of defining Tao to that of defining electricity. You can describe many attributes of both. You can measure electricity, not sure about tao or qi. You can point to how each is experienced. However, when you sit down and actually try to write a definition of either one, it becomes very tricky. In the end, you come up with something like "electricity is electricity". In the case of Tao, the first chapter of TTC comes right out and says it can't be named. When it comes to the subtle body and the flow of qi, one has to rely on their own experience and have faith that in this world there are things that exist beyond the senses. Perhaps like Tao and electricity, we may not be able to clearly define qi, but we surely know it's there.

[rainbow]

Thanks a lot everyone, very helpful.