skydog Posted August 13, 2013 I can't say I'm even ready to get confused over semantics. sure you are lol, I edited my post a bit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted August 13, 2013 Thanks for sharing this information. Since I don't read many books on meditation and meditation states, how common is it to apply "states" and/or "attainments" to chakras? I don't come from a yoga background and so never really considered chakras much until recently. Thanks. Hi RV, It depends on the tradition. In my post to Skydog, I just used the references because he mentioned the 8th chakra and I thought it might be helpful for our discussion. Realization of the "8th" is a big step and rarely discussed. Most call it the "inner heart" or some similar term. Best, Jeff Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted August 13, 2013 (edited) Hi Jeff Your post is causing me to think a bit. It is still my understanding that an enlightened being (well actually I believe in the infinite levels idea) will still have thoughts occur and still have a sense of self that allows them to function in the world. And perhaps thoughts are a form of "emptiness". I think the higher chakras can open up a bit and then close a bit in constant motion and not neccessarily ceasing. When I do a ton of heart activity which has nothing to do with (meditation) I find I can sit for 5 minutes in immense bliss/nothingness. So in a way this stuff is all related, isnt this what is meant by the term Void= form. Not sure, if people are getting confused over semantics. I dont speak as an "enlightened" being, although I dont think anyone in this thread does (if such a thing even exists because Im pretty sure I know one person who is, and he has a sense of self that needs to function in the world etc etc.) and most of these peoples teachings are mistranslated. I also find people tend to get excited when they hear things they dont understand or know much about, as if the other person must know exactly what it is they mean, I think it is not right to discuss things in such a manner. Regards Hi Skydog, I would agree that there are infinite levels (or maybe better - infinite variations) in the concept of an enlightened being. I also agree that the concept of an independent (or unique view) continues to exist for an enlightened being. But, there is a direct correlation between the level of integration in oneness and the letting go of the "sense of self". As an example, if someone still experiences anger, then they are still subject to "automated responses" and they are not experiencing enlightened moments. Also, in classic understanding, experiencing "bliss" is not the same or related to emptiness. As you described it, "bliss" is something that you "experienced" for 5 minutes. Emptiness (or Form = Void and Void = Form) is beyond "experience". More an fundamental realization/knowing that all states are the same (or don't really exist). Or as described in the Lankavatara Sutra... "By emptiness in the highest sense of the emptiness of Ultimate Reality is meant that in the attainment of inner self-realization of Noble Wisdom there is no trace of habit-energy generated by erroneous conceptions; thus one speaks of the highest emptiness of Ultimate Reality." As described above, when one realizes emptiness, there are "no barriers" between/from anything, because one "knows" that everything is the same and there is really no place to go. That the inside is the same as the outside. Finally, pretty cool that you know an "enlightened person". Any details that you can share? And, from your above comments, I am happy to drop the conversation if you want. Best wishes, Jeff Edited August 13, 2013 by Jeff Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydog Posted August 13, 2013 (edited) Hmm ok I think we are on similar terms. No, I am fine with the conversation, as long as the language is understandable. What details do you wish to know, a PM may be more appropriate. I was reffering to above the head, but you mention a "chakra" inside the heart, is this the one going from behind the heart to in front of the heart sorta like a beam. Edited August 13, 2013 by skydog Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydog Posted August 13, 2013 http://thetaobums.com/topic/31102-everything-is-illusion/#entry466076 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted August 13, 2013 Hmm ok I think we are on similar terms. No, I am fine with the conversation, as long as the language is understandable. What details do you wish to know, a PM may be more appropriate. I was reffering to above the head, but you mention a "chakra" inside the heart, is this the one going from behind the heart to in front of the heart sorta like a beam. If you think a PM is more appropriate, that is fine. Regarding the 8th chakra, sorry about the confusion... Yes, the 8th is above the head, but has a direct connection to the inner heart. It may be possible to perceive it like a connecting beam, but it would depend how the "mind" would translate the concept. Best, Jeff 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
teriyaki Posted August 14, 2013 If the mind realizes 'I am no one' than fear will come - but if the heart knows 'I am no one' fear is gone. Mooji 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 14, 2013 If the mind realizes 'I am no one' than fear will come - but if the heart knows 'I am no one' fear is gone. Mooji That might be worth thinking about. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
