Questions on The Tao and Compassion

[BlueMonk91]

Is the Tao something that always functions whether we fight against it or not, if there is only the tao, then nothing we do can take us away from it?

 

So we still have free will, we can make our individual choices but they are still aligned with the tao because all actions/ possibilities are contained withing the tao?

 

...............And why does it seem humans take some joy in seeing others suffer or having a difficult time, of all the problems in the world it is the one I find most troubling and strange?

[voidisyinyang]

Is the Tao something that always functions whether we fight against it or not, if there is only the tao, then nothing we do can take us away from it?

 

So we still have free will, we can make our individual choices but they are still aligned with the tao because all actions/ possibilities are contained withing the tao?

 

...............And why does it seem humans take some joy in seeing others suffer or having a difficult time, of all the problems in the world it is the one I find most troubling and strange?

 

yep the tao always functions.

 

Free will is a paradox -- will power is the kidney energy but the less desires we have and the more we resonate with the Tao then the more freedom we have - with more will power. So real will power that is free is impersonal will power of the Tao. Individual will power is based on the false self and so will always hit limitations. We can do whatever we want but the Tao always gets the final decision.

 

So people get joy from suffering of others due to sadomasochism from male ejaculation addiction - you see the same thing in chimps but not in bonobos. Ejaculation causes a trigger of the male nervous system to the stress sympathetic system with a spike in cortisol. This creates a positive feedback cycle - the dopamine pleasure ended in stress pain - but more dopamine pleasure is sought which then creates more stress pain. So this internal process is then projected onto others as oppression based on the self-denial of what creates true happiness.

[BaguaKicksAss]

I think that usually it is folks who are suffering in some way themselves, they want to take it out on others. I have noticed the folks who are really nasty towards others are usually pretty miserable and have a LOT to work though.

 

Then you get the folks who think they are doing good, or don't realize they are being nasty, or what they are doing is wrong. I went and watched the news today, to get this realization. I've also seen it before though.

[ChiDragon]

Is the Tao something that always functions whether we fight against it or not, if there is only the tao, then nothing we do can take us away from it?

 

So we still have free will, we can make our individual choices but they are still aligned with the tao because all actions/ possibilities are contained withing the tao?

 

...............And why does it seem humans take some joy in seeing others suffer or having a difficult time, of all the problems in the world it is the one I find most troubling and strange?

 

Tao only has one natural path for humans to follow. However, humans may not choose to follow Tao's way but go off course..

[RiverSnake]

We project are internal reality outwards. If your a miserable person your naturally going to project that on others and enjoy seeing others suffer as you do. This is the reason why internal achemy is so important....it works to transform are internal reality into a purer and more balanced state and thus we are able to make ourselves and the world itself a better place.

 

IMO the TAO refers to the natural laws of existence and the "flow" of existence which we tap into and move with. A kind of cosmic "True Will" which exists in all of existence even if we are not aware of it and don't know how to "tap in" to it. When we learn to flow with it by creating an "Internal Environment" which is in harmony..... then existence tends to be smoother and the sudden cycles of life don't catch us of guard.

 

 

My 2 cents, Peace

Edited August 11, 2013 by OldChi

[voidisyinyang]

a person can have the best intentions by crapping in the toilet but in reality they are dirtying water that otherwise is potable and then using huge resources for some infrastructure to try to clean the water again -- meanwhile the crap is actually great humanure to be used to grow food.

 

So you have a waste of clean drinking water, a waste of energy to try to clean the water unsuccessfully, a waste of compost to grow food thereby requiring dependence on fossil fuel-based fertilizer.

 

Good intentions - you got trained to use a toilet - little did you know you were just part a vast machine destroying the planet.

[Marblehead]

Hi BlueMonk91,

 

The title of your thred is an important concept of Taoism. One of Lao Tzu's "Three Treasures" is compassion. But we also must remember that he states that Tao and the Sage treat the people like straw dogs (without compassion). The relativity of things must be considered here.

 

...............And why does it seem humans take some joy in seeing others suffer or having a difficult time, of all the problems in the world it is the one I find most troubling and strange?

Yes, this is a problem I have always had with many people. They have the need to see others fail. Is it because they think themselves to be failures and they want more people in the basket they have put themselves in?

[C T]

a person can have the best intentions by crapping in the toilet but in reality they are dirtying water that otherwise is potable and then using huge resources for some infrastructure to try to clean the water again -- meanwhile the crap is actually great humanure to be used to grow food.

 

So you have a waste of clean drinking water, a waste of energy to try to clean the water unsuccessfully, a waste of compost to grow food thereby requiring dependence on fossil fuel-based fertilizer.

 

Good intentions - you got trained to use a toilet - little did you know you were just part a vast machine destroying the planet.

Bring back the outhouses. Yay!

[voidisyinyang]

Bring back the outhouses. Yay!

 

I just go in a bucket using shredded leaves. Outhouses pollute the water supply. Composting is the same principle for qigong - Mantak Chia calls it composting the emotional energy....

 

So yeah last year I grew $1000 worth of food for $20 of seed cost.

 

Organic tomatoes - five a day - for a few months plus lots of other greens.....potatoes, etc.

 

yeah doing the same this year but got a new pumpkin patch - will post photos soon.

[C T]

Outhouses pollute the water supply.

Not in the good old days where the buckets are collected 3 times a week and the waste goes to au naturel composting yards.

[Jainarayan]

Yes, this is a problem I have always had with many people. They have the need to see others fail. Is it because they think themselves to be failures and they want more people in the basket they have put themselves in?

 

The old saying: "Misery loves company".

[voidisyinyang]

Not in the good old days where the buckets are collected 3 times a week and the waste goes to au naturel composting yards.

 

yeah usually an outhouse is a latrine -- a pit in the ground - no good.

 

Sweden ecology institute is promoting Ecosan - "ecological sanitation" which is exactly that throw back to composting.

 

You need a 30 to 1 Carbon to Nitrogen ratio. There's carbon pretty much in everything - manure, etc. - so just cover up with carbon until the smell goes away....

 

Shredded leaves.

 

I used biochar the first time - charcoal I made from wood - it words great since there are nanopores which house the aerobic bacteria and also the black color soaks up the heat.... faster composting and also faster growth rates for plants....

 

ummm but too much work for me - I didn't make a real biochar unit without pollution....

 

So....

 

 

it's highly ironic this is promoted in "developing countries" that were destroyed by Western colonialism but Western societies still put their manure in potable water - crazy!! Such a loss of good compost.

 

anyway....

 

yeah wood ash - people freak like it's too much potassium -- but whatever.

 

I use wood ash and it's got all these micronutrients that are lacking in oil-based fertilizers.....

[voidisyinyang]

Hi BlueMonk91,

 

The title of your thred is an important concept of Taoism. One of Lao Tzu's "Three Treasures" is compassion. But we also must remember that he states that Tao and the Sage treat the people like straw dogs (without compassion). The relativity of things must be considered here.

 

Yes, this is a problem I have always had with many people. They have the need to see others fail. Is it because they think themselves to be failures and they want more people in the basket they have put themselves in?

 

 

I remember a whole thread devoted to that "straw dogs" term -- lots of interpretations....

 

But "the need to see others fail" - this is because a lot of people define reality in a win-lose scenario - it's drilled into people through sports and preps them for war mind control society.

 

So if a person doesn't win that means they lose but to win the person has to make sure the other people loses!

 

So instead of focusing on winning a lot of people just focusing on making sure the other person loses - then they win automatically. Much easier to lower the standards then to increase your own standards.

 

ummm....

 

So.....

 

Of course reality is a win-win situation do to infinite consciousness but modern mentality is based on materialist reality defined by irrational magnitude in mathematics, etc. consumer culture, etc.

[Marblehead]

But "the need to see others fail" - this is because a lot of people define reality in a win-lose scenario - it's drilled into people through sports and preps them for war mind control society.

 

So if a person doesn't win that means they lose but to win the person has to make sure the other people loses!

 

So instead of focusing on winning a lot of people just focusing on making sure the other person loses - then they win automatically. Much easier to lower the standards then to increase your own standards.

Ain't that the freakin' truth. Sad.

[Marblehead]

I remember a whole thread devoted to that "straw dogs" term -- lots of interpretations....

True. I doubt there will ever be agreement on interpretation of this. Me? I'm just passing through.

[Aaron]

Is the Tao something that always functions whether we fight against it or not, if there is only the tao, then nothing we do can take us away from it?

 

So we still have free will, we can make our individual choices but they are still aligned with the tao because all actions/ possibilities are contained withing the tao?

 

...............And why does it seem humans take some joy in seeing others suffer or having a difficult time, of all the problems in the world it is the one I find most troubling and strange?

 

Hello Bluemonk91,

 

Tao can be a little confusing, for one, there is the Tao that we cannot talk about (with the big T) and then there is the tao we can talk about (with the little t). If you start there you can alleviate the confusion a bit, because the first, the Tao, is unnameable, unfathomable, un-describable, and essentially unknowable in the physical sense. The little t is the tao most people are talking about when they talk about tao and that is essentially the way, or as Chi-Dragon was alluding to, nature. In essence when you think of it it's really the only one you can think about, because, as I mentioned, the first one isn't something that can be put into words,

 

Is tao compassion? Absolutely not, in fact it's the absence of compassion or cruelty, it's the natural way of things. Just as a lion isn't cruel when it kills the fawn, nature isn't cruel when something occurs to cause you harm, it's just nature. The branch breaking as you walk across it, sending you into the chasm below, isn't nature conspiring against you, but rather the force of nature at work. I hope that helps to clarify that part of it.

 

As for people seeming to take satisfaction in the suffering of others, it's nothing as incredulous as sex addiction, the effects of masturbation, or "war-mind", but rather it's something people learn subtly as children, which is, when other people aren't doing well, that means there's a good chance we are, so the joy isn't necessarily in the suffering of others at all, but rather in the underlying belief that it indicates our own success. Think of it in terms of "The Lottery" by Shirley Jackson. People aren't necessarily happy because someone else got the lottery ticket, but rather that it means they didn't. Now there are those who are sadomasochists, but they make up a very small percentage of the population, less than half a percent in fact, so using them as evidence for any kind of example seems a bit irresponsible.

 

Now for the big revelation, the Tao Te Ching does encourage us to practice compassion, in fact there are so many passages that talk about it, I really couldn't mention them all here. What I can tell you is that Lao Tzu said that if we put others first, then we put ourselves first and that the sage feeds the hungry, gives alms to the poor, and sacrifices his own well being for the sake of others, it's what makes him a sage. The naysayers that will come after me will tell you this isn't so, but I encourage them to do so, because I can prove it is so. Now if you want to see the proof, all you have to do is read the Tao Te Ching. It takes the average man less than two hours, so there really isn't much stopping you. I'd recommend John C. H. Wu, but you can read any reliable translation.

 

Good luck to you and I hope this helped to explain it in a way that's a bit easier to understand.

 

Aaron

 

edit- People consistently misinterpret the "straw dogs" passage to indicate that the sage doesn't have compassion for others, but that's not what it means at all, it just means he has no attachments to others, he treats everything, people and nature, equally, so he is just as apt to help the fox trapped in the snare as he is the boy trapped in the well.

Edited August 12, 2013 by Aaron