Has anyone else worked with these magic squares?

[BaguaKicksAss]

http://thetaobums.com/topic/15794-laozi-and-the-magic-square/

 

Wikipedia also has a good article on the Lo Shu square.

 

Also this page: http://www.taliscope.com/Collection_en.html

 

I have worked with the same square, but from another tradition, pretty neat stuff, and much crossover

[Friend]

Edited August 17, 2013 by Friend

[BaguaKicksAss]

Personally I do not use it as a Saturn square (though it can be used for that) and wonder if that is a newer (after 1600 sort of thing) correspondence for the square. I was taught to walk it years back for balance, prosperity and so forth. More along the lines of the Taoist stuff now that I look at it. Now that I practice Bagua, and have read about star stepping this square seems to have so many new possibilities!

 

On a side note I've also worked with some of the other squares as well. (but not in a Western match them up with planets sense).

[Zhongyongdaoist]

Following an adolescent interest in expanding the type of mathematics used in esotericism, which I was later to put under the general topic 'Mathematical Philosophy' following the categories of occult philosophy of Cornelius Agrippa, I did a lot of work with magic squares which I have characterized as 'sacred linear algebra' in the following post:

 

 

Since you specifically mentioned Daoist/Yi Jing, I am surprised no one mentioned The Astrology of I Ching translated by W. K. Chu and edited by W. A. Sherrill. This is a translation of the 河洛理書 (Hé Luò Lǐ Shū). Which title they rather clumsily translate as the "Ho Map Lo Map Rational Number Manuscript", and which might be better rendered as "A Treatise on the Inner Essence of the Hé Map and Luò Document". The keyword here being 理 (lǐ), translated as "inner essence", and often rendered as reason, thus Chu and Sherrill's “rational”, which in this case is slightly misleading because the numbers involved are just integers and not “rational numbers” at all.

Basically the “inner essence” of the he and luo is a natal Hexagram derived from the “Eight Pillars of Wisdom”, the combination of Heavenly Stems and Earthly Branches ruling the year, month, day and hour of ones birth, for example Fire Dog, Earth Rat, Metal Rooster and Water Dragon. The technique is simple and I have found the results interesting.

Otherwise for Chinese astrology in general check out the works of Derek Walters.

Now for another one of my, I hope at least, fascinating digressions. Sometime ago I made the following post in a thread about the Lou Shu or “magic square of three”:

 

. . . the applicability of a formal system to life is seldom obvious and the magic square of 3 is a formal system. Among other things is has a formal analogy to the matrices used to solve linear equations, but I am sure that I am only pointing out the obvious to you. It is also unique among the families of 'magic squares' in being the only one with one member and if I recall correctly also being symmetrical in all transformations. Now symmetry is important, for example:

'Some of the most basic aspects of physics follow from looking at symmetries. The symmetry under translations in space implies the conservation of momentum, while symmetry under translation in time implies the conservation of energy. The relation between these conservation laws and the symmetry transformation is much more direct in quantum theory than it is is classical mechanics.' Peter Woit, Not Even Wrong, p. 36

and more interestingly:

'The SU(2) transformation properties of a particle have become known as a particle's spin. This term comes from the idea that one could think of a particle as a spinning particle, spinning on some axis and thus carrying some angular momentum. This idea is inherently inconsistent for a number of reasons. While the spin is a quantized version of the angular momentum, there is no well defined axis or speed of rotation. Spin is an inherently quantum-mechanical notion, one that fits in precisely with the representation theory of the symmetry group SU(2), but has no consistent interpretation terms of classical physics.' ibid. p. 46

In other words formal mathematical systems could be seen to determine such macro properties as why tops spin, and such necessary phenomena as the conservation of energy and motion. Particle spin even explains why we have 'matter' and 'energy'.

The magic square of 3 could be just such a formal mathematical system whose importance was discovered 2000 plus years ago and whose area of applicability happens to be to spiritual cultivation and a description of humanity's spiritual potential.

The applicability of such systems to life is determined by their 'fruitfulness' and generations of Daoist practice could be used as an argument that this system is very fruitful indeed.

I was replying to one of our members who is fond of asking questions, some very good and others, such as the ones he was asking in this case, not very edifying. The thread ended at this point and I have not had time to return to the topic until now, and the reason why I bring it up now is that, had I continued with the above thread, I would have cited this Yi Jing astrology as just such an example of the application of the formal system embodied in the he/luo diagrams. The technique of the astrology is hardly the type used to solve a set of linear equations, being simple arithmetic, but it does show that interesting and useful information lies in the most unexpected places and only waits for the right analytic system to bring it shining forth.

Occasionally there is talk on the Tao Bums about Sacred Geometry, Sacred Linear Algebra anyone?

 

Since you had relocate the thread which I reference in the above quote, I thought pulling this up would be useful and interesting as illustrating one application.

 

Most of my work would take us well outside the area of purely Daoist Magic and is highly technical anyway, but basically it is possible to create magic squares of just about any size and to represent just about any complex magical system on them.

Regarding uses within Daoist Magic, years ago I took the material in Saso and Lagerway (a less well known academic authority on Daoist ritual who covers much the same ground) and let my fingers do the walking, creating a basis for Daoist ritual in which one has 'the whole world', if not exactly in one's hand, at least on one's fingers. While I was reading some of Jerry Alan Johnson's material years later, I was amused to discover that this is a Maoshan Thunder Magic technique.

[BaguaKicksAss]

This square is as I am aware is the Saturn Square in the West but there is somewhere even a formular

that there is a greater amount of combination how the numbers can be put in with only 9 numbers

somewhere in my notes from the past study about mathematics, I forgot where I put it..

 

In the Book by Michael Saso Taoist Master Chang is a part of the Thunder Magic "Dance of the Hotu"

and the arrangement of a Bagua Diagramm with the Seal of Saturn on knows in the West, dancing this to

gain immortality and preservance. (In the west this Seal has circles at the edges which is to placed Lights).

This chapter is interesting to read and is maybe interesting for people know well in Saturn Rituals.

 

I'm definitely going to read that one!

[BaguaKicksAss]

Following an adolescent interest in expanding the type of mathematics used in esotericism, which I was later to put under the general topic 'Mathematical Philosophy' following the categories of occult philosophy of Cornelius Agrippa, I did a lot of work with magic squares which I have characterized as 'sacred linear algebra' in the following post:

 

 

Since you had relocate the thread which I reference in the above quote, I thought pulling this up would be useful and interesting as illustrating one application.

 

Most of my work would take us well outside the area of purely Daoist Magic and is highly technical anyway, but basically it is possible to create magic squares of just about any size and to represent just about any complex magical system on them.

 

Regarding uses within Daoist Magic, years ago I took the material in Saso and Lagerway (a less well known academic authority on Daoist ritual who covers much the same ground) and let my fingers do the walking, creating a basis for Daoist ritual in which one has 'the whole world', if not exactly in one's hand, at least on one's fingers. While I was reading some of Jerry Alan Johnson's material years later, I was amused to discover that this is a Maoshan Thunder Magic technique.

 

Hmmm, I could not find anything by Lagerway at amazon or abebooks?

 

I am sort of curious as to why the 3x3 is much much more commonly used than the others? Well aside from the Bagua and being on the back of the turtle aspects...

 

Are you by any chance referring to the trigrams (iching hexagrams) being within the parts of the fingers? I found that pretty fascinating.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

Hmmm, I could not find anything by Lagerway at amazon or abebooks?

 

I am sort of curious as to why the 3x3 is much much more commonly used than the others? Well aside from the Bagua and being on the back of the turtle aspects...

 

Are you by any chance referring to the trigrams (iching hexagrams) being within the parts of the fingers? I found that pretty fascinating.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Taoist-Ritual-Chinese-Society-History/dp/0028964802

 

Actually the nine stars, though the trigrams are an important aspect of the star's symbolism and also the twelve earthly branches. I used a description of a practice of Master Chuang in Saso's book and material from Lagerway's and came up with a ritual of my own which turns out to be a close relative of a Maoshan Thunder Magic technique Jerry Alan Johnson describes in Daoist Magical Incantations, Hand Seals, and Star Stepping on pgs. of 136-137 the 2006 edition and pgs. 268-269 of the 2012 final edition.

 

I adapted the material so that my version is close to, but not exactly the same as that given by Professor Johnson. I had a version for personal use and one that could be used for cleansing and exorcising people, places and things. I did a lot of creative adaptation of material from Saso, Lagerway and Livia Kohn. They seemed to work quite well.

 

The 3 X 3 magic square is the core of Doaist Meditation and Magic. I don't believe that they use the other squares in their practices, though they may. They were certainly aware of them in mathematics.

 

The rest of my exploration of magic squares was in the context of Western magic, or higher levels of Mathematical magic that are not part of any tradition, but part of the potential for magic that exists in many types of mathematics.

 

 

 

Edit: Corrected spelling of exactly in 'but not exactly' above.

Edited August 8, 2014 by Zhongyongdaoist

[BaguaKicksAss]

I find that pretty interesting that certain stepping orders call about or bring about different things . I was taught more about each square and how to activate them. That is pretty awesome you figured out how to make it work well.

 

I had some dreams where I was walking the 5x5 square when I was working with the squares a lot, and they were quite intense. The walking it while awake was also quite strong, but nothing like the dreams.

 

Btw, just a note for anyone reading this when I say walking the squares, I was not doing it in the same way with the specific stepping style as in the Taoist traditions.

 

It was funny though when I started Bagua, and my teacher told me I had already been walking the Bagua, then laughed.. :>.