Everything is illusion.

[rene]

.

Edited August 15, 2013 by rene

[Uroboros]

Confusing is like swimming in a whirlpool...round and round we go, up and down...in and out. Where we end up......pickles. hah!

[Uroboros]

On a more serious note- Effilang, I enjoyed your post. Thank you for taking the time to write out your thoughts/ experiences in as comprehensive manner as you can.

[zerostao]

But let's be honest, confusion is so much more fun.

marblehead, you are the taoist section steward, i think you have powers to move this thread or at least to bring that up for discussion the steward haven, or you could go with the buddhist concept of wu wei and let it sort itself out on its own.

or however you , as steward might think is best?

i really wasnt confused until it was pointed out to me that i must be...

[rene]

.

Edited August 15, 2013 by rene

[Uroboros]

I have little experience of the illusive nature of reality. What I mean is that I have not, that I am aware of, experienced the true nature of "things".

 

I have experienced things that do not fit within a limited, matter dominant, philosophy/ reality.

 

I can see how parts of my mind have grasped, attatched and classified things which limits my perception as to what is truly there.

 

It can change what is there, limit the potential of a "thing".

 

Especially when my mind thinks it knows what is happening when it really does not.

 

Seeing the moon shine in the lake, I dive in, expecting to grasp the moon...when all I find is water.

 

Somin like that. haha

[zerostao]

hehehe,

thanks for clarifying

anywho, i am fine with however the local steward chooses to go here,

me and my stick with withdraw

[effilang]

How did I miss that Marblehead is now a steward?

 

Congrats, MH!

 

Every one of Marblehead's posts accounts for one polish of his Marble Head.

 

It is now after many posts and much work, perfectly polished.

It can be polished no more.

 

The projection of the great Tao touches upon his Marble Head and reflects upon us all that ever was, is and ever will be. He is a living emanation of the luminous light of the eternal Tao.

 

And as the great light so bounces off his perfectly polished marble head.

So all those who are struck by its transforming rays must bow forth in the majesty of his splendour.

 

We must rejoice in his well earned title as Steward of the Tao : )

Edited August 13, 2013 by effilang

[Marblehead]

Having said that, It seems people are sensitive to these titles and I hadn't considered It.

Yeah, I love my labels, and I have many of them. Some even given to me by others. Some of those I did not accept. Hehehe.

 

Labelling oneself is simply ego food but some need that food else their ego will die.

[Marblehead]

marblehead, you are the taoist section steward, i think you have powers to move this thread or at least to bring that up for discussion the steward haven, or you could go with the buddhist concept of wu wei and let it sort itself out on its own.

or however you , as steward might think is best?

i really wasnt confused until it was pointed out to me that i must be...

Yeah, I'm just wu weiing right now.

[Marblehead]

How did I miss that Marblehead is now a steward?

 

Congrats, MH!

Thanks. But remember that I am also an Anarchist so ...

[Uroboros]

MH- if you are an Anarchist...does that not mean that you may be a more...loyal steward since you wont get stuck into ritual/ old ways?

 

More open to change? Less stagnation!

 

Or you could end up throwing it all out the window with a big, screw it! screw it right into the wall!

 

Peace.

[Marblehead]

I have little experience of the illusive nature of reality. What I mean is that I have not, that I am aware of, experienced the true nature of "things".

Well, if you will, consider that our brain evolved so that it sees things as we actually see them. Surely there was a good reason for that. If we try to see thing differently than what our brain can computer we are goinf to fuck up our brain. Examples of this can be seen all over the world.

[Marblehead]

Every one of Marblehead's posts accounts for one polish of his Marble Head.

 

It is now after many posts and much work, perfectly polished.

It can be polished no more.

 

The projection of the great Tao touches upon his Marble Head and reflects upon us all that ever was, is and ever will be. He is a living emanation of the luminous light of the eternal Tao.

 

And as the great light so bounces off his perfectly polished marble head.

So all those who are struck by its transforming rays must bow forth in the majesty of his splendour.

 

We must rejoice in his well earned title as Steward of the Tao : )

Hehehe. You stop buttering me up else I will send you to the Pit and then you will have only Vmarco to talk with.

[Marblehead]

MH- if you are an Anarchist...does that not mean that you may be a more...loyal steward since you wont get stuck into ritual/ old ways?

 

More open to change? Less stagnation!

 

Or you could end up throwing it all out the window with a big, screw it! screw it right into the wall!

 

Peace.

You just pinned the tail on the ass. Woops, that was supposed to be donkey.

[Uroboros]

MH- if my brain is designed to see things a certain way...what if I change how it sees? haha. I figure I could do that since I am capable of imagining it.

 

Or it will just fry me and I will be a walking popsicle.

 

Meh, both work.

[effilang]

Labelling oneself is simply ego food but some need that food else their ego will die.

 

God forbid.

Edited August 13, 2013 by effilang

[Uroboros]

MH- I pinned the tail on the ass?!

 

The donkey is fine for it was made for tail...pinning....

 

Yea...

 

Peace.

[Marblehead]

MH- if my brain is designed to see things a certain way...what if I change how it sees? haha. I figure I could do that since I am capable of imagining it.

 

Or it will just fry me and I will be a walking popsicle.

 

Meh, both work.

Hehehe. At this point I will not even make a suggestion. Just be careful when you walk out the door; you have to open it first.

[Marblehead]

VMarco's shares about his travels have been enjoyable.

Yes they have. And those posts show the 'real' side of Vmarco, IMO.

[Marblehead]

 

LOL you're just tryin to poke a stick in it now...

 

"Wu Wei is a Taoist concept adopted by Ch'an (Zen) Buddhism, meaning action without attachment."

 

Glossary_of_Buddhist_Terms

 

 

edit: FYI...that's not the Taoist meaning of Wu Wei - but it's probably as close to the idea Buddhism could come, under their lingo & concepts.

Okay, I get to poke fun. The Japanese adopted Buddhism but found too many holes in it. All the holes were filled with Taoist thought.

 

Yeah, Chidragon spoke well to wu wei a while back. Something like action (or inaction) without alterior motive. Actually, action (or inaction) within the natural flow of things.

 

Anyhow, as you read this imagine it is not an illusion.

[skydog]

hmm, I like this post, and I actually quoted to it.

 

It got me thinking a bit, sometimes "doing" is what an "enlightened" being would do.

 

Is there such a difference between doing and non doing.

 

Sometimes there is a time to be spontaneous, sometimes there is a time to take action.

 

Both are part of the universe and self from my understanding whichever words wants to use, although usually most of the time people are skewed too far towards doing.

 

I may have misunderstand the intent here however.

[Uroboros]

MH- Feel free to always make suggestions. I do enjoy options to expand my mind space.

 

hehe, open the door first?! What insanity is this? I am hulk! Hulk smash door! rawr!

 

On a different note- I have experienced some strange doors in the mind opening. A real pain to close without any damage/ being the same.

 

Like humpty dumpty. Once you break apart, can you come back into teh same thing? My experience, no.

 

I do understand your warnings. Some things should not be opened/ entered all willy nilly like.

[Uroboros]

Malikshreds- In the Shurangama Sutra, as far as I have gotten, he does seem to stay away from absolutes concerning emptiness and the nature of form.

 

In many ways he does say this is true yet its not as black and white...The true/ absolute is less to do with form and is inclusive.

 

Something like that. hehe, here I am, a baby, trying to speak of rocket science!!!

 

haha. Boom.

 

I think in the Dhammapada there is a line where it says, form is emptiness....Hmm...Not sure where, been awhile...

 

I have heard it before.

 

In the Shurangama they say that too..They expand on it, though. Why it is empty, and so on.

[Aaron]

Aaron, I appreciate that you've taken the time to "qualify" my thoughts, but I couldn't care less about what you've posted.

 

I'm not interested in what people want to call it, so long as it helps them practice and in doing so leads them to their own experience of my...well experience.

 

Honestly, the last thing I expected was for someone to reply to the thread in address of such superficiality.

 

But I suppose you did it with good intentions.

I'm afraid I do not see them at all, but I am not saying they are bad either. Maybe I am just blind to your wisdom.

 

I just do not see the benefit of it to anyone else, but yourself.

 

I've never been interested in what people call something, but rather what that thing achieves.

 

If you removed every mention of the word Taoism, Taoist or Buddhism, Buddhist from the context of my post, it would still be an effective post. This is the essence of my learning and teaching.

 

Having said that, It seems people are sensitive to these titles and I hadn't considered It.

I apologize in advance If I have offended anyone's beliefs by using any names inappropriately.

 

I would advise everyone however to remember that provocation is the root of all wisdom.

If something I have said has provoked you. Perhaps you should take the opportunity to ask yourselves why?

 

I will do the same.

 

 

 

There wasn't any offense, I just thought it was inappropriate to present this as Taoism, when it clearly wasn't. A lot of people come here and read these threads to learn more about a specific philosophy, if you present to them ideas that aren't part of that school as being foundations of the philosophy, that really misleads them and they fail to learn what they set out to. If you want to justify it and turn the blame on me, I accept it, no misgivings, but I don't think I'm the one at fault here.

 

And another thing to keep in mind, I'm not particularly against the mishmashing of philosophies, I do it with Zen and Tao, but what I am mindful of is explaining what is what in clear and honest terms, so that people don't misconstrue what I'm saying. If you asked the vast majority of Chinese if they are Taoist, Buddhist, or Confucianist, they would claim to be all three.

 

Taoism teaches us that we don't have to believe something just because we've been told it is so. Also there are (literally) thousands of different sects of Taoism, and not all are strictly Taoist in practice, some are heavily influenced by Ch'an, others by Confucianism, others by traditional Chinese practices, and others by all of these combined. I wouldn't tell them they aren't Taoists if they came here and said something that wasn't taught in the Tao Te Ching or Chuang Tzu, but I would mention that it isn't what Lao Tzu or Chuang Tzu taught.

 

In my opinion, whether good or bad, I think Lao Tzu had the clearest understanding of Taoism, with Chuang Tzu running a close second. It is because of this opinion that I tend to come around to these discussions and point these things out. So feel free to come along and say what you want, even call it Taoism, but when you do, you must understand that, as a student of Lao Tzu, I feel the necessity to clarify the relationship it holds to Lao Tzu's teaching.

 

Aaron

Edited August 14, 2013 by Aaron