Who would you like to see go for Lei Shan Dao training in China?

[Cameron]

Sounds of my original 3 votes(Yoda, Sean O, Kieth(Trunk) Yoda and Trunk arent interested in going. So who would you be interested to see going. Let's all make a list of 3(You can include yourself of course if you think you would be a good canditate) and get an idea of who the TB's as a whole would like to see go. At this point, with Yoda and Kieth bowing out, my list would be either Sean O, Smile or myself(Cameron).

 

Let's also see what everyone would be willing to pitch in for whoever. Sean D has already offered to pitch in $1000.

 

I would be willing to pitch in $200 if they need the money this year. And up to $500 if they need it next year.

 

Cam

[spyrelx]

I nominate myself. Best man for the job, by far.

 

Humbly yours,

 

spyrelx

[Wayfarer64]

This has my interest. I have an idea that I am supposed to go to China to find a teacher, but am having trouble working it out. So I add myself to the list with Sean O and Cam as the other two candidates of my choice...

 

I meet with the man who has offered me a job in China tomorrow, so I shall know what my position is much better on Monday.

 

I am sceptical about Sean D.'s claims for David's system due to several factors that I have expressed on other threads. But with my past training and general open-minded approach I see this as a good thing. So I volunteer for this learning experience also.

 

If the many items I have for sale on my web site would sell, I could pay for much of the trip myself...as planned.

I would only require the added expences of the course itself. So pray for sales @ www.pdgart.com and I will be able to pay for the trip to lessen the burden of the efforts at hand... So help me help you help me to do this and maybe we can have two perspectives to glean info from about this remarkable sounding system. Seans' and mine as well. I look forward to all and any experiences ahead with an open mind.- Pat

[Matt]

FYI

 

I think that Sunshine, Darebak and myself are going. There may be a couple others from the TB that are going that I dont know about.

[Cameron]

Let me restate I think the idea is to have someone who was 'on the ropes' or even someone who had no intention of going to go and has been around this community for an extended period of time. Thats' why my first votes were for Yoda, Kieth(Trunk) or Sean O .Yoda nd Kieth arent interested so that leaves Sean O for my vote. If Spyrelx and Wayfarer are interested that's great.

 

I think what we should do is let this thread tell us-over the next several weeks or so-what type of interest there is for this and if people are actually interested in giving.

 

Originally I said it would take like 100 Tao Bums giving like 75-100 each but since Sean D has committed to giving $1000 that really means 100 TB's only need to give like $70 each. Obviously some might want to give more or less whatever.

 

So everyone give there vote and if you would be willing to put in the $ and let's see what comes up.

 

actually I think Spyrelx would probably be a good canditate also but if only ne eprson is going I have to vote for Sean O,Smile..or myself.

[Smile]

Look what you've done.

Now I'm thinking of going to Denmark, if it works out with job, money, and other little things.

I'm not asking for money, though... but won't reject any either.

[Wayfarer64]

After thinking about this for a little while - I would replace myself going for Darin H. going as he seems to actually be in need of such possible help.

What do ya say sky-jumper? Can ya do this thing?

[Cameron]

Let's just let everyone respond and give feedback for a couple weeks and the universe will decide who/if anyone should go on this important mission.

 

Cam

 

ps. Looking forward to all of you who are going this year's feedback also, Derek, Sunshine etc. possibly Max to Denmark.

[sean]

I was thinking about either doing this, or joining my local fundamentalist southern baptist revival. I can't decide. They both seem to have all the answers and a direct path to the truth.

[Eric23]

In no particular order...Cameron, Sean O, Spectrum

[DentyDao]

Since Yoda has declined with some lame excuse (I'm crushed btw), I would like to see Plato in the running. Just because I'm a personal fan and I know he has no bias; and of course he would have us laughing are asses off. Plus he is already a published author. My vote is for Plato, but of course who ever is chosen would make a fine canidate I'm sure.

 

One thought would be to randomly choose from a group of willing participants. Just pool a list of names and let fate choose the one to go.

 

Definitly, if this idea becomes a reality, there will be a book and we will have to ask David to authorize more disclosure regarding the practices and permission from the masters to speak with more depth about the training and the 'experiment.' they could just say no, but it couldn't hurt to ask either. The profits would of course go to create further opportunities for others, perferably the younger ones with legitmate financhel considerations.

 

Also, we want a serious student, but there is no obligation to go through with the full commitment. That would be unfair to ask of anybody; the practice has to be right for the person who goes and there is a chance that it won't be a good fit. Of course, it would be great to fall in love and go foward to be successful in the practice, but again, it's just not something we would impose on the canidate for this venture. I only mention it because someone mentioned a three year requirement. It has to be a mutual thing.

Edited May 6, 2007 by seandenty

[DentyDao]

I was thinking about either doing this, or joining my local fundamentalist southern baptist revival. I can't decide. They both seem to have all the answers and a direct path to the truth.

 

Sean, you should take a look at the foundation forum. I'm sorry I have given this impression; I have tried my best to present my limited experiences and understanding. Obviously, my style and delivery has it's flaws; one of them is being bullheaded. If I won the lottery tomorrow, I would send 100 taobums to China if it meant people would gain a broader picture of the rich diversity of China and a greater depth of understanding traditional Daoism. David and his teachers are anything but dogmatic. certainly no one is claiming to have all the answers.

 

S

[Cameron]

I was thinking about either doing this, or joining my local fundamentalist southern baptist revival. I can't decide. They both seem to have all the answers and a direct path to the truth.

 

 

Actually, this attitude I think makes Sean an excellent canditate. We could be sure he would put his integrity and attention to truth above anything else. Not to mention his deep connection to the forum itself(he runs it) would mean we would have our own trustworthy, accessible, long term feedback on this matter.

 

Also, taking into consideration what Sean D said..this does no imply one must make a 3 year committment before giving feedback. That would be ridiculous .What we are looking for is someone we all trust giving us an honest account of what's up with this Lei Shan Dao stuff.

 

So my first vote would be for Sean to go. Obviously if he doesn't want to for some reason I would be willing to go. But we all need to give feedback, discuss it, meditate on it etc.

 

Let's try to have some idea of who will go(and if even enough people are committed to giving $) by the end of May.

[sunshine]

Possible requirements for the candidate to go to be sure about in order not to have to ask for a money back guarantee :

 

a) already able to do 3-4 hours practice each and every day (and actually doing it!)

b)absolutely willing to give up all former practice so far, be it for 3 years or just one year... (I assume Sean can give an idea what might be the minimum requirement for proper evaluation of the training) and stay committed to just this one practice for the time being

c) willing to stay celibate for at least 4 monthes (probably for some of us less difficult than the above requirements)

d) emotionally stable enough to not break under the "heavy weight" of responsibility if taking this offer (maybe this requirement can be omitted)

e) truly an open mind

 

I am sure there are some more...

 

Now girls and guys: if you think you truly fulfill these requirements then raise your hands...

Edited May 6, 2007 by sunshine

[sean]

How long is the trip for? What will a typical day look like? Can I have some more details?

 

It would be cool to make a documentary out of this trip actually. Would the teachers be up for some filming? I think I could give an objective report if I went, but it's a time issue. I run a business that I can't leave for large blocks of time just yet.

 

Sean

[Cameron]

It's not until next year and if the board supports it I say Sean is the one to go. I don't think any of the requirmentes Sunshine mentioned are necissary before training arent those after you learn the foundation training?

 

In any case Ime sure Sean wouldn't have any problem with the meditation I can't say about 4 months celibacy and don't think Sean D mentioned anything like that.

[Pietro]

I nominate myself. Best man for the job, by far.

 

Humbly yours,

 

spyrelx

 

I stand by Spyrelx. I think he has both the historical experience to evaluate what happens, and is not proficient (by his own admission) to the point that any result in him would come quite strictly from the new training (no offence meant Spyrelx).

By speaking of historical experience I mean, he has been with us for a number of years. And this can ease the passing of information. He can rapidly say: ok so they do microcosmic but then connect to the ming men, while using DrLin to ... or whatever.

 

I would like to see Wayfarer to go. But I think he is too proficient for the job. It would then be difficult to disentangle what of the result comes from his own practice and what from the training. Also I suspect he would mix some buddhist material or share back using too much a buddhist p.o.v.

 

I would like to see a real taoist go. Not a Taoist-Buddhist. Taomeaw would fit the job.

 

For the same reason I would put as a requirement to have

 

:3-4 hours a day timewise.

 

But if he is already practicing 3 or 4 hours a day then, again, he would be so far on the path that most tao bums would be unable to start. So to have the time available.

 

I was thinking about either doing this, or joining my local fundamentalist southern baptist revival. I can't decide. They both seem to have all the answers and a direct path to the truth. wink.gif

 

With this quote, which made me crack up, btw, for me, Sean has shown to be a really good candidate for the job. I wouldn't finance him, though. Sorry, Sean, personal issues.

 

So, for me so far I put 100 euro for Spyrelx or Wayfarer (or Taomeaw) or Plato.

 

I strongly discourage Max, for I think he is not in the point in life to have the right objectivity for this job. Again, it might work too good for him. And if he is already convinced what good would it be. I mean for us. And for him too the discourse about wanting a pure Taoist, and not a Tao-Buddhist would hold.

 

 

Sean, you should take a look at the foundation forum.

There is no need to look at what you guys do in a secret forum. The tree is judged by its fruit. And its fruit posts here as well.

 

I have tried my best to present my limited experiences and understanding. Obviously, my style and delivery has it's flaws; one of them is being bullheaded. If I won the lottery tomorrow, I would send 100 taobums to China if it meant people would gain a broader picture of the rich diversity of China and a greater depth of understanding traditional Daoism. David and his teachers are anything but dogmatic. certainly no one is claiming to have all the answers.

 

The issue is not to have all the answers. The issue is to believe there is only one path. Of which you incidentally claim to know a part.

[sunshine]

It's not until next year and if the board supports it I say Sean is the one to go. I don't think any of the requirmentes Sunshine mentioned are necissary before training arent those after you learn the foundation training?

In any case Ime sure Sean wouldn't have any problem with the meditation I can't say about 4 months celibacy and don't think Sean D mentioned anything like that.

 

Cameron. I have tried to follow the forum from its start as good as I could... so if nothing changed so far the requirements are as is. Foundation: first 4 monthes celibacy! Afterwards it is different if all goes fine... no mixture of techniques if not approved by David himself! Further: 3 hours a day is required minimum during foundation!

 

with smiles

 

Harry

[sunshine]

By the way. If you are interested in where the foundation training actually leads and if it is a congruent experience, then take the 10000 and help 2 to 3 genuinely interested to get to the Denmark training. Then you'd get cross-reference

[DentyDao]

[spyrelx]

I stand by Spyrelx. I think he has both the historical experience to evaluate what happens, and is not proficient (by his own admission) to the point that any result in him would come quite strictly from the new training (no offence meant Spyrelx).

By speaking of historical experience I mean, he has been with us for a number of years. And this can ease the passing of information. He can rapidly say: ok so they do microcosmic but then connect to the ming men, while using DrLin to ... or whatever.

 

 

Thanks Pietro, I appreciate the vote. And I think you're description of me is pretty accurate. I've been around since the HT forum and know most of you (by internet) pretty well. Like some of the heavy contributors on this board, I have good familiarity with Chia's system, Winn's system, Bodri's system, Lin's system and also general concepts and practices of zen -- though I couldn't claim master level or even advanced level in any of them. I'm also a pretty good writer, observer and analytical thinker. And I tend to be consistent without, I think, being rigid. And if I went, I'd put in the requisite practice.

 

Also, if David would allow, I have both audio and video equipment to provide a record of the experience (and could do at least as good a job -- for lower final cost -- with respect to editing and production values as the Lei Shen Dao video Sean's group is selling).

 

Finally, if this is really going to happen and I'm NOT the pick, I'd throw in to send the lucky tao bum overseas.

 

spyrelx

[Smile]

I strongly discourage Max, for I think he is not in the point in life to have the right objectivity for this job. Again, it might work too good for him. And if he is already convinced what good would it be. I mean for us. And for him too the discourse about wanting a pure Taoist, and not a Tao-Buddhist would hold.

I love you too.

i agree with you that I shouldn't qualify because I most likely go to Denmark.

If we go by your "pure taoist" approach, Cam, Yoda or Sean shouldn't be on the list either.

So the choice should be made based on age, amount of time of personal practice right now, the amount of wordly baggage (read: responsibilities) to deal with, and desire to go, plus willing to meet the requirenments.

 

I think the experiment will fail even if we send someone. Those who capable are either going or planning to anyway.

Max

[Cameron]

Pietro's views towards Max are silly. His own teacher BK Frantzis was heavily in Zen before going to Taoist arts. This prerequisite to be a 'pure' Taoist is nonsense.

 

I put my final vote in for Sean to go. That's all I have to say. Let's see what everyone else thinks.

[thelerner]

The person we sponsor should be the best at reporting to us. The person who'd give us the best taste of actually experiencing it. To that point I'd say Yoda, who is our most prolific writer. Then I'd consider Spyrelix who wants the job and says he'd do a great job recording it for us. To that extent Trunk would be a good choice too.

 

If people are really serious, we should make it into a real vote, with Sean O, to get the final decision with regards to honest and fair counting. If we're serious someone should put it into a poll.

 

 

Michael

[Cameron]

Michael,

 

Trunk and Yoda have already stated they arent interested. They were both my first choices along with sean. Spyrelx would be objective but I think Sean would be able to give us the best overall picture.

 

But if more people get behind Spyrelx or someone else it would still be a good thing.