Jacob Boehme & Christian Theosophy

[stefos]

Hi everyone,

 

I own a black & white copy of William Law's "The works of Jacob Boehme."

 

I was struck by how different Christian Theosophy: Hermeticism, Alchemical thought, Kabbalah & Christianity are from Blavatsky's Thesophy & Rudolf Steiner's Theosophy/Anthroposophy.

 

I would what you, the reader, think about this.

 

Also, I wonder if any groups exist which teach Christian Theosophy as found in Boehme & in works like "Opus Magnum Cabbalisticum et Theosophicum" or whatever the title particularly is.

 

Stefos

[Seth Ananda]

Hi Stefos.

 

What are the major differences that stand out?

 

I know much Christian mysticism borrowed heavily from Plotinus and that has the same cosmological structures as the Hermetic world views...

 

I had thought Steiner at least would have similarities, but i find him very difficult to read. I still love his esoteric teachings though...

[RiverSnake]

Diggin the new pic Seth.

[stefos]

Hi Stefos.

 

What are the major differences that stand out?

 

I know much Christian mysticism borrowed heavily from Plotinus and that has the same cosmological structures as the Hermetic world views...

 

I had thought Steiner at least would have similarities, but i find him very difficult to read. I still love his esoteric teachings though...

Hi Seth,

 

Well, here's what I currently understand sir:

 

1. Boehme used the alchemical/hermetic understanding of his day to convey spiritual truth & truths. Steiner spoke plainly as it were.

 

2. Blavatsky's Theosophy was heavily Anti-Christian. Period. She didn't want Christianity but did talk about the "Christos" and even then extremely rarely.

Steiner's Theosophy acknowledges Christ & Jesus but distinguishes the "Christ" as being a spirit who was "separate" per se than Jesus. He didn't deny that Jesus was a spirit, only that the Christ being became one with Jesus.

Boehme embraces & expresses Jesus Christ, God/man, as the reconciler between God & man and that Jesus was & is God.

 

3. Boehme spoke by & large of Sophia or Wisdom as being integrally part of God's very fabric.

Steiner did also.

 

4. Boehme mentions a "virginic state" (I'm not quoting directly but this IS the intent) in which God thru Christ desires to bring man & the entire cosmos back to......A spiritual, psychological & physical state.

The analogy is that of Adam & Eve being virgins in the garden with a truly moral & upright mind, heart & spirit as well being unsullied by Sin & a sin based/"terror of God if I sin"based mindset.

 

In this last statement, Non-duality is hid.....Why "hid?" because God made Adam/Eve & Adam/Eve was called Adam and they, being, one & being identified as non-dual by the scripture: "He named/called Adam & Eve Adam" had a larger Non-duality which hid them: God & Humans being one & the cosmos being one in an unfallen state.

 

Steiner's viewpoint is different than Boehme's in this expression & terminology as well.

 

That's my insight & understanding for what it's worth.

 

It's interesting to note that in the Pre-Fall state of man, there was no 10 commandments, just 1 in the Garden/Orchard.

Even in Noah's life, there were no 10 commandments either!

Think about this.

 

Stefos

 

P.S. Jacob Boehme is not an "easy read" by any stretch of the imagination.....rough reading man, rougher than Steiner, if you ask me!

Edited August 20, 2013 by stefos

[Zhongyongdaoist]

Hi everyone,

 

I own a black & white copy of William Law's "The works of Jacob Boehme."

 

I was struck by how different Christian Theosophy: Hermeticism, Alchemical thought, Kabbalah & Christianity are from Blavatsky's Thesophy & Rudolf Steiner's Theosophy/Anthroposophy.

 

I would what you, the reader, think about this.

 

Also, I wonder if any groups exist which teach Christian Theosophy as found in Boehme & in works like "Opus Magnum Cabbalisticum et Theosophicum" or whatever the title particularly is.

 

Stefos

 

Stefos,

 

The movement to which you are referring as 'Christian Theosophy', I prefer to call 'Protestant Illuminism', because it is fundamentally Protestant and owes its whole impetus to the Reformation need to find an interpretive context for the Bible and thus a guide to Protestant thinking..

 

One of its inception points is surely Paracelsus, and its most influential form is undoubtedly the 'Rosicrucian' Manifestos. The general ideas is that Qabalah will provide an interpretation that ties in with the inner truth of the Bible and Alchemy will confirm it as the governing principle of nature. It included such luminaries as Robert Fludd, and such very Protestant members of the 'Scientific Revolution' as Newton and Boyle, whose vaunted chemical skepticism extended to Aristotle's four elements, but not to Paracelsus' Hermetic amulets to expel mice and for other purposes.

 

Probably its last significant public representative was Emanuel Swedenborg, about whom you can read here:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emanuel_Swedenborg

 

A Church founded on his teaching is still active and you can read about it here:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Church

 

They are perhaps the only group still interested in and practicing a more or less pure form of what you mention.

 

In the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries such ideas influenced many of the founding thinkers of German Romanticism and you may find this book:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Hegel-Hermetic-Tradition-Glenn-Alexander/dp/0801474507

 

An interesting read in that regard.

 

However ideas such as this:

 

Baptists emphasize that the Bible is the sole written authority for Christian faith and practice and deny that other writings such as creeds, confessions of faith, traditions, the teachings of theologians and the statements by founders of denominations have such authority. Although Baptists may gain insight from and express appreciation for some of these documents, they refuse to accept them as authoritative. (http://baptistdistinctives.org/articles/the-authority-of-the-bible/)

 

It hardly need be mentioned that if long established creeds and confessions of faith, were not acceptable, then Qabalah and Alchemy were hardly to be considered.

 

Together with this:

 

Some of these basic convictions relate in a special way to how Baptists view and interpret the Bible. For example, belief in soul competency and the priesthood of all believers leads Baptists to insist that each believer-priest is competent to read and understand the Bible and that the opportunity and responsibility of each believer priest for reading and interpreting the Bible ought not be delegated to others. Similarly, Baptists insist that no other person or group of persons ought to attempt to assume the right to dictate to others what to believe. (http://baptistdistinctives.org/articles/the-authority-of-the-bible/)

 

Were to eventually make any form of Protestant esotericism extremely suspect in the eyes of the average believer and the shepherds who tend them.

 

Thus the 'Christian Theosophy' in which you are interested became became more or less extinct in the general population, while at the same time becoming the intellectual inspiration for the occult revival of the Nineteenth Century. However, it became more and more irrelevant in the eyes of occultist in the late Nineteenth Century and as the Twentieth Century developed. As you have noted, Steiner's Anthroposophy is certainly not in the tradition which interests you and the post Blavatsky attempt by Annie Besant and 'Bishop' Leadbeater to coopt Christianity by a Theosophical interpretation in the form of the Liberal Catholic Church, is hardly relevant to your concerns either.

 

I wish I had better news, but I hope this is helpful anyway.

[Apech]

Now hear a plain fact: Swedenborg has not written one new truth:

Now hear another: he has written all the old falshoods.

 

And now hear the reason. He conversed with Angels who are all religious, & conversed not with Devils who all hate religion, for he was incapable thro' his conceited notions.

 

Thus Swedenborgs writings are a recapitulation of all superficial, opinions, and an analysis of the more sublime, but no further.

 

Have now another plain fact: Any man of mechanical talents may from the writings of Paracelsus or Jacob Behmen, produce ten thousand volumes of equal value with Swedenborgs, and from those of Dante or Shakespear, an infinite number.

 

But when he has done this, let him not say that he knows better than his master, for he only holds a candle in sunshine.

 

William Blake , A Memorable Fancy

[Zhongyongdaoist]

I came not to praise Sedenborg, but to bury him.

 

Blake is well known for burning tigers at both ends.

[stefos]

 

Stefos,

 

The movement to which you are referring as 'Christian Theosophy', I prefer to call 'Protestant Illuminism', because it is fundamentally Protestant and owes its whole impetus to the Reformation need to find an interpretive context for the Bible and thus a guide to Protestant thinking..

 

One of its inception points is surely Paracelsus, and its most influential form is undoubtedly the 'Rosicrucian' Manifestos. The general ideas is that Qabalah will provide an interpretation that ties in with the inner truth of the Bible and Alchemy will confirm it as the governing principle of nature. It included such luminaries as Robert Fludd, and such very Protestant members of the 'Scientific Revolution' as Newton and Boyle, whose vaunted chemical skepticism extended to Aristotle's four elements, but not to Paracelsus' Hermetic amulets to expel mice and for other purposes.

 

Probably its last significant public representative was Emanuel Swedenborg, about whom you can read here:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emanuel_Swedenborg

 

A Church founded on his teaching is still active and you can read about it here:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Church

 

They are perhaps the only group still interested in and practicing a more or less pure form of what you mention.

 

In the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries such ideas influenced many of the founding thinkers of German Romanticism and you may find this book:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Hegel-Hermetic-Tradition-Glenn-Alexander/dp/0801474507

 

An interesting read in that regard.

 

However ideas such as this:

 

 

It hardly need be mentioned that if long established creeds and confessions of faith, were not acceptable, then Qabalah and Alchemy were hardly to be considered.

 

Together with this:

 

 

Were to eventually make any form of Protestant esotericism extremely suspect in the eyes of the average believer and the shepherds who tend them.

 

Thus the 'Christian Theosophy' in which you are interested became became more or less extinct in the general population, while at the same time becoming the intellectual inspiration for the occult revival of the Nineteenth Century. However, it became more and more irrelevant in the eyes of occultist in the late Nineteenth Century and as the Twentieth Century developed. As you have noted, Steiner's Anthroposophy is certainly not in the tradition which interests you and the post Blavatsky attempt by Annie Besant and 'Bishop' Leadbeater to coopt Christianity by a Theosophical interpretation in the form of the Liberal Catholic Church, is hardly relevant to your concerns either.

 

I wish I had better news, but I hope this is helpful anyway.

 

Hi,

 

Thanks for posting!

 

I appreciate it.

 

Hmmm...I think that by & large you are right in regards to Boehme & Georg Weller's worldviews per se.

 

I DO believe that Rosicrucian groups with legitimate ties exist but they are very secretive & probably selective as well!

 

Your thoughts?

Stefos

 

P.S. What Boehme saw, he said, everyone could see/experience. It wasn't a closed phenomenon!