Families: Privilege for the rich?

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2393694/Is-marriage-rich-people-How-tying-knot-having-children-marker-middle-class-status.html

Non-college-educated and working-class Americans are now less likely to get or stay married, or have children.

According to a new study from the University of Virginia and Harvard University, titled Intimate Inequalities: Love and Work in a Post-Industrial Landscape, tying the knot is reserved for the wealthy.

'Marriage is becoming a distinctive social institution marking middle-class status,' said Sarah Corse, an associate professor of sociology in the University of Virginia's College of Arts & Sciences, and the study's lead author.

Ever since i was a young teenager, the financial atmosphere has been a fear of mine, and a mind-domninating concern.


Ever since i was 13 years old i have been trying to "solve" the puzzle that is life: "How do i grow up, take care of myself, raise a family, set a good example, and be a good person?"

The answer is pretty pathetic... the fact is, i can't. I cant afford it.

If i want to be a good person and set a good example, i have to be a/the Buddha.
So i can kiss my personal goals goodbye.

Or i can seek to reach my goals, but i will have to pay taxes and contribute to the "necessary evils" of society, so i cant set a good example, but maybe i can have the things i want.

Well some of them... like junkfood and pointless trinkets. if i want those things, they are within reach.

I might be able to take care of a spouse and children if i was lucky enough to meet someone who was comfortable living homeless in the street, or in a cardboard box.

Or if living with my parents/family wasnt a social stigma.

 

 

But let's face facts: No one wants to commit themselves to another person if that person is not evidently the sole proprietor of their own life and the means to maintain that life...

And in an economic arena, no one holds propriety over their own lives!

Therefore, only the rich and elite have any privilege to marry or breed. the rest of us are begging for scraps, praying that life wont be perpetual suffering.

[skydog]

yes i deleted a post

Edited August 16, 2013 by skydog

[Basher]

Or you could come over here to the UK, be unemployed, claim benefits & have as many kids as you like and let the "employed" (ie taxpayers) pay for them all !!!

 

If you want a bigger House, just have a few more kids & complain about the lack of room.

 

And Voila, you'll get given a bigger place to stay in.

 

Piece of Cake.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

oh yes, let me get right on my free passport and free visa, right?
And its not like that type of behavior is deplorable either - successful cargo cult is still not in ownership of its way of life.


Sounds like brittain and america are two sides of the same coin...

[Apech]

Or you could come over here to the UK, be unemployed, claim benefits & have as many kids as you like and let the "employed" (ie taxpayers) pay for them all !!!

 

If you want a bigger House, just have a few more kids & complain about the lack of room.

 

And Voila, you'll get given a bigger place to stay in.

 

Piece of Cake.

 

 

Have you renewed your Daily Mail subscription?

[Basher]

Have you renewed your Daily Mail subscription?

 

LOL - Good Point. You may have hit a nerve ! The Super Rich / Rich can take care of themselves. The Poor should be taken care of or given assistance by the state. The Lazy should be given a kick up the Bum But the majority of us, someplace in the middle are just taxed to within an inch of our lives & expected to not complain.

 

I don't mind paying taxes to pay for essential services, etc..or to help those less fortunate, and in genuine need / poverty.

Just don't see why working taxpayers cash is used to help immigrants "milking the system" or those that have never done a days work in their lives to produce offspring without any thought to how they're going to pay for them.

 

Those of us in work can rarely afford large families.

So isn't it "wrong" to reward those who don't contribute, every time they have another child ?

The Uk cannot afford to support all those wishing to dip their hands in the till.

 

(Gone to have a Cold Shower, think peaceful thoughts & calm down)

[i am]

Tell this to the poor in the trailer parks having child after child after child and having social services pay, and all the well educated financially stable couples having one, if any children.

 

 

But as with anything, there's a middle ground. All my 30-something friends are married and having kids. All make somewhere between 20,000-60,000 a year, which is not my definition of wealthy or elite, though its all the money I'd ever need.

Edited August 16, 2013 by i am

[skydog]

lol

[Apech]

LOL - Good Point. You may have hit a nerve ! The Super Rich / Rich can take care of themselves. The Poor should be taken care of or given assistance by the state. The Lazy should be given a kick up the Bum But the majority of us, someplace in the middle are just taxed to within an inch of our lives & expected to not complain.

 

I don't mind paying taxes to pay for essential services, etc..or to help those less fortunate, and in genuine need / poverty.

Just don't see why working taxpayers cash is used to help immigrants "milking the system" or those that have never done a days work in their lives to produce offspring without any thought to how they're going to pay for them.

 

Those of us in work can rarely afford large families.

So isn't it "wrong" to reward those who don't contribute, every time they have another child ?

The Uk cannot afford to support all those wishing to dip their hands in the till.

 

(Gone to have a Cold Shower, think peaceful thoughts & calm down)

 

You make a lot of good points I was only pulling your leg.

 

I used to a real wishy washy liberal but as I get older the more grumpy I get

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

LOL - Good Point. You may have hit a nerve ! The Super Rich / Rich can take care of themselves. The Poor should be taken care of or given assistance by the state. The Lazy should be given a kick up the Bum But the majority of us, someplace in the middle are just taxed to within an inch of our lives & expected to not complain.

 

 

I expect that if you DO pay your taxes, you have NO RIGHT to complain.

 

You're the only one putting your money into getting yourself screwed... and if you're being forced to, that's criminal... start a resistance.

 

If you dont resist, you cant complain.

 

 

 

By god, i am going to stop resisting and jsut fucking drown myself... it's been over 13 fucking years, god dammit. What good is talking about it going to do when no one is willing to act?

 

It's taken at least 8 years of bitching online to get THIS FAR! THIS FAR: People are actually starting to THINK about this crap. 5 years ago, and this same topic would have gotten me lam blasted into ridicule!

 

Its finally being taken seriously, but over THIRTEEN FUCKING YEARS of this shit, i've had to put up with!

 

 

I am NOT going to listen to tax payers bitch about the results of your taxed money. you let your money get taxed. granted, a lot of it is automatically deducted before you even ever see your paycheck, but the fact of the matter is: you could have and should have known to expect that before you were hired, but you went through with the hiring process anyways: you already contribute to the system. You have no right to complain.

 

 

I dont blame you for being part of the system; set up so thoroughly that there is nearly no means to survive without the system. I understand. Im looking for that system that exists off the grid. if i found that, i wouldnt have spent the last 14+ years on the internet, discussing the failures of economics, currency, civilization, and religion. I'd be enjoying life instead of fixing it!

 

 

But the problem remains that the civilized world is encroaching the surface of our planet, leaving scarcely any natural resources for even animals to thrive, let alone Human animals.

The most humane environments: paved over and sterilized, no longer habitable in any natural sense.

Your lives belong to other persons' profits, your descendants are already written off as collateral by big corporations, and you, yourself, are little more than a resource for either military, corporate, economic, or political agendas.

 

The topic is about the family unit, and the cost of supporting a family.

 

 

The "cost" no longer being natural by any measure is now controlled by deep pockets - you and your families are a result, not of nature, but of corporate planning.

 

How many middle-and-lower class individuals have families they can support?

How many middle class families have to bust their backs on a daily basis just to keep food on the table?

 

How many tribal families suffer in any comparison to civil families?

 

 

When ill circumstance befalls us:

 

Nature can be forgiven, for it operates to maintain balance and harmony

 

Civilization must be punished, for its existence is purely unnecessary and only serves to disrupt natural balance.

Edited August 16, 2013 by Northern Avid Judo Ant

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

i want to add that taxes should operate on a donation model: that way you KNOW your money is going to public services and not special interests.


My uncle argues that "if no one was forced to pay, no one would pay" but that defies the argument "not minding paying for emergency services".. so either he's lying about not minding to pay for essentials, or he's lying that he would pay for them at all if given a choice in the matter.



Much to my point:

If tax-based services no logner recieved mandatory taxed income, if you wanted to see those services, YOU would have to take PERSONAL responsibility to pay them.


They can still be a public service, but the quality of service would only reflect the quality of public donations.

A mutual existence.

[gendao]

I would agree that legal marriage is basically a costly expense to pay the State to control your relationship...and so it may run proportional to wealth, religious beliefs and other factors...

 

But with childbearing, there is actually more of an inverse relationship between birth rate and wealth. IOW, poor people tend to have many more kids earlier (regardless of whether they themselves can afford to raise them) - which also keeps them all poorer... E.g. - The poorest place in the world is in Sub-Saharan Africa - which also just "happens" to be where the highest birth rate is too.

 

Then again, even that could be constrained by lack of more wealth. Like when given more money:

JOHANNESBURG — Jacob Zuma, the president of South Africa, has 20 children, three wives and a fiancée

Edited August 16, 2013 by vortex

[thelerner]

1>But let's face facts: No one wants to commit themselves to another person if that person is not evidently the sole proprietor of their own life and the means to maintain that life...

 

2>And in an economic arena, no one holds propriety over their own lives!

 

3>Therefore, only the rich and elite have any privilege to marry or breed. the rest of us are begging for scraps, praying that life wont be perpetual suffering.

1. Yes

2. Yes.

3. Disagree, you don't have to be rich and elite, but you do need to get a job /earn money. Its not the rich and elite that keep you 'begging for scraps', its imo the fact you won't participate in 'necessary evil' of earning a paycheck.

 

Plus, marriage is not for everyone. There's many level of hook ups. From dating to living together. Lack will hinder you though.

 

You'll have to be elected dictator before taxes become voluntary.

Edited August 16, 2013 by thelerner

[zerostao]

i like maps too

 

http://twistedsifter.com/2013/08/maps-that-will-help-you-make-sense-of-the-world/?utm_source=Surthrival+List&utm_campaign=8742d715fd-15_off_Pine_Pollen_Products8_15_2013&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_6721a8f9f4-8742d715fd-412584789

[gendao]

i like maps too

 

http://twistedsifter.com/2013/08/maps-that-will-help-you-make-sense-of-the-world/?utm_source=Surthrival+List&utm_campaign=8742d715fd-15_off_Pine_Pollen_Products8_15_2013&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_6721a8f9f4-8742d715fd-412584789

3. The Only 22 Countries in the World Britain Has Not Invaded (not shown: Sao Tome and Principe)

So, the British Empire is the basis for the NW0? And anyone who resists their metastatic culture/control is a "terori5t rogue enemy of the Superstate?"

Edited August 16, 2013 by vortex

[Chang]

We come into the world alone and that is how we leave it.

 

Whilst we are here we can interact with our fellows as we see fit and/or as we are able.

 

Many spend their time here alone. Many spend their time here wishing they were alone.

[Chang]

3. The Only 22 Countries in the World Britain Has Not Invaded (not shown: Sao Tome and Principe)

So, the British Empire is the basis for the NW0? And anyone who resists their metastatic culture/control is a "terori5t rogue enemy of the Superstate?"

 

As an Anglo Saxon I take full responsibility for my forefathers warlike ways and would like to take this opportunity to apologies without reserve to everyone except the damned French.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

3. Disagree, you don't have to be rich and elite, but you do need to get a job /earn money. Its not the rich and elite that keep you 'begging for scraps', its imo the fact you won't participate in 'necessary evil' of earning a paycheck.

 

 

 

that's the shared opinion, and that sharing of opinion is a problem in and of itself, not a solution by any measure.

So long as a paycheck and work are tied to someone eles's profits, yes, it is, in fact, the rich and elite who are suppressing others.

 

I refuse to work because the very act thereof will only make SOMEONE ELSE more wealthy, while barely being able to take half a step closer to my own goals.

 

So long as the work that needs to be done is tied to someone else making a profit from it, everything you can do will belong to that "someone else". including starting a family - which you cannot do without that "someone else" giving you a paycheck.

 

 

Your opinion argues nothing.

[Apech]

As an Anglo Saxon I take full responsibility for my forefathers warlike ways and would like to take this opportunity to apologies without reserve to everyone except the damned French.

 

Yep ... agreed ... we need to reclaim Calais at the earliest opportunity.

[SonOfTheGods]

[i am]

Sounds like you'd like to start a revolution.

 

That's cool.

 

I can understand hating the way modern society is set up.

 

And so long as you remain living with your parents, you can afford to be so idealistic.

 

There are off grid communities, communes, eco villages and other groups of people trying to escape the same stuff as you (I am too, to a point, though I'll admit I'd rather waste my precious energy enjoying life rather than hating the time and society I live in, so yes, im part of the problem), have you checked them out?

 

The system you hate is so complicated, and the population now so large that with every problem you solve, you bring up six more, and your solution will be something someone else hates as much as you hate the current system.

 

It's a tough time for anarchists! The world has become so overpopulated and complex, that revolutionary change is pretty tough.

 

And we see, in places like Cuba, how it can turn out. One corrupt system replaced by another, no matter how well intentioned and burning with passion those revolutionaries were...

 

Or Egypt...

Edited August 16, 2013 by i am

[Basher]

If you don't pay your taxes, you get put in jail. Try supporting your family from there ...

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

If you don't pay your taxes, you get put in jail. Try supporting your family from there ...

 

That's terrorism. you allow that kind of terrorist behavior?

 

 

You are OKAY with being a victim of taxterrorists?

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

And so long as you remain living with your parents, you can afford to be so idealistic.

 

 

>.> So basically, what you are saying, is i am delusional.

 

Thanks.

[i am]

 

Not delusional. Able to be idealistic. No, not BE idealistic, many of us are that...but to LIVE by those ideals. Even if you ARE being supported by people who are living within the system you're attempting to live outside of. It's tricky...