article about Dao

[Vitalii]

Dao… Nowadays this term is quite widely used in the most diverse spheres of activities; and term “philosophy of Dao” is gaining in more and more popularity. However, unfortunately, very often we face distortion of its intrinsic meaning. To understand its meaning, one should, first of all, appeal to Daoist Tradition, as it is based on aspiration for comprehension of Dao and the true inwardness of reality.

 

Dao connotes first cause and source of all things existent. Dao is an Original True Reality that exists beyond our reality, space, time and any categories and forms in total, which we usually use to describe the world around us. This is what, in particular, the first line of Dao De Jing makes a good point on: Dao is not a path, which can be passed (named, described with common categories) – for more details about this see below.

 

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[Marblehead]

Nice.

 

And true, Tao is not the path. Te (virtue) is the path. We are in Tao while walking the path. Okay. Hehehe. We are always in Tao.

 

 

BTW I like the picture. There is a reality similar to that in North Georgia (Helen). A place I have enjoyed going to a number of times.

Edited August 17, 2013 by Marblehead

[rene]

Vitalii, hi,

 

Thanks for the link to the rest of the article. It's no small feat describing these things; well met.

[XiaoZi]

Hi Vitali. Thnx for the interesting info about Tao. Read with pleasure. I wanted to specify the etymology of the Tao character - 道. In the article it is said "...Hieroglyph consists from 2 parts: left and right. The right part may also be divided into two parts: upper and lower ones. The upper right part means “integrated Universe”; two titles on the top are symbolical of Yin and Yang. This means that the whole Universe consists from two polar powers and, meantime, stays being an integrated unit...." The character in ur article is modern one. So I 've looked in the internet for the oldest forms of Tao character (attaching it to the post) And the right upper part is not two lines, there are three lines. So could you please explain me how it corresponds with ur interpretation?

[Marblehead]

I'm watching with interest.

[ChiDragon]

There is no difference in interpretation because they are only differ in style of calligraphy. The styles change in time for simplification and less strokes for writing. That's all......!!!

The calligraphic styles change evolved with time

[Vitalii]

Hi Vitali. Thnx for the interesting info about Tao. Read with pleasure. I wanted to specify the etymology of the Tao character - 道. In the article it is said "...Hieroglyph consists from 2 parts: left and right. The right part may also be divided into two parts: upper and lower ones. The upper right part means “integrated Universe”; two titles on the top are symbolical of Yin and Yang. This means that the whole Universe consists from two polar powers and, meantime, stays being an integrated unit...." The character in ur article is modern one. So I 've looked in the internet for the oldest forms of Tao character (attaching it to the post) And the right upper part is not two lines, there are three lines. So could you please explain me how it corresponds with ur interpretation?

 

Hi XiaoZi,

 

I want to clarify that the article explains Daoist philosophical interpretation of a modern character.

With regards to the ancient character writing, there are several points of view on the ancient character of Dao and its right side:

1. Some believe that the three lines of it is character "巛" / "川" that means a "stream, river, creek, plain".

2. Others consider that character on the right is the "eyes with eyelashes/eyebrow."

3. It is also interpreted as a "head with hair." Together with the left side, it means a "walk on the main road", "follow the main path", as a hieroglyph "head" also means "chief, first, highest..."

4. Finally, some reckon that the three lines make a trigram "Qian - Heaven", and a character under them is translated as an "eye", and together it all means a "true vision."

_____________________________

Oldest forms of Dao character:

Edited September 29, 2013 by Vitalii

[XiaoZi]

Then what is it for - to give the interpratation of the mordern character form if the character originally had the different meaning?

[Vitalii]

Although characters' writing is different, their essential meanings are not contradictory, but complementary.

Characters' writing has changed, and its understanding and interpretation have changed as well.

The same thing happens with usual words: one and the same word can have different meanings at different times. This is a natural phenomenon for language of any culture.

Edited October 1, 2013 by Vitalii

[dawei]

 

1. Some believe that the three lines of it is character "巛" / "川" that means a "stream, river, creek, plain".

2. Others consider that character on the right is the "eyes with eyelashes/eyebrow."

3. It is also interpreted as a "head with hair." Together with the left side, it means a "walk on the main road", "follow the main path", as a hieroglyph "head" also means "chief, first, highest..."

4. Finally, some reckon that the three lines make a trigram "Qian - Heaven", and a character under them is translated as an "eye", and together it all means a "true vision."

 

5. Shaman headress of Deer antlers

[XiaoZi]

So from your words

 

Although characters' writing is different, their essential meanings are not contradictory, but complementary

 

it means "stream, river, creek, plain", "eyes with eyelashes/eyebrow", "head with hair", trigram "Qian - Heaven" and "two titles on the top are symbolical of yin and yang" are the same? hair is the same thing as yin-yang?

[Marblehead]

... hair is the same thing as yin-yang?

Well, if we view yin-yang as shades of grey instead of black and white then, yes, that would be my hair.

 

 

 

Edit to add:

 

Or how about instead of hair it is emitted Chi (wisdom)?

Edited October 3, 2013 by Marblehead

[XiaoZi]

Well, if we view yin-yang as shades of grey instead of black and white then, yes, that would be my hair.

Edit to add:

Or how about instead of hair it is emitted Chi (wisdom)?

 

1. And if I have red hair - will it be Yin-Yang from the point of red?

2. Chi (Wisdom) you meant this character: "智 zhì"?

[Vitalii]

So from your words

 

it means "stream, river, creek, plain", "eyes with eyelashes/eyebrow", "head with hair", trigram "Qian - Heaven" and "two titles on the top are symbolical of yin and yang" are the same? hair is the same thing as yin-yang?

 

You just don't understand my words.

 

I didn't say that it is one and the same.

I said: "Although characters' writing is different, their essential meanings are not contradictory, but complementary."

 

it means "stream, river, creek, plain", "eyes with eyelashes/eyebrow", "head with hair", trigram "Qian - Heaven" and "two titles on the top are symbolical of yin and yang" are the same?

 

No,

I said: "There are several points of view on the ancient character of Dao and its right side";

"Characters' writing has changed, and its understanding and interpretation have changed as well".

 

 

hair is the same thing as yin-yang?

 

No, you are wrong.

 

 

P.S.

I can't continue this discussion, because I am holding a retreat in Nepal at the moment.

I'm leaving with my students in the monastery tomorrow.

[Marblehead]

1. And if I have red hair - will it be Yin-Yang from the point of red?

Sure, red is a good color for yang; when you age the grey will be yin.

 

2. Chi (Wisdom) you meant this character: "智 zhì"?

I don't know. I don't do the Chinese characters. But if you think it fits that would be fine.

[XiaoZi]

I said: "There are several points of view on the ancient character of Dao and its right side";

"Characters' writing has changed, and its understanding and interpretation have changed as well".

 

How can the meaning of Tao be changed?

Once written by creators the definite meaning is put in the character. This meaning cannot be changed later. How can meaning of the one definite written chacter can be changed? I'm not saying about understanding and interpretations. We are talking about the old form of TAO.

 

My second question - why don't you give the meaning of the old form of TAO in the article instead of modern interptratation that is far away from the old form meaning??

 

 

Sure, red is a good color for yang; when you age the grey will be yin.

I don't know. I don't do the Chinese characters. But if you think it fits that would be fine.

 

Such interesting method for Yin-Yang theory

No I think it will not fit. Better to search and to decribe the oldest forms from the point of Chinese itselves. And they are saying that three strokes in the right part int's not Yin-Yang, it's - defenite thing.

[Vitalii]

How can the meaning of Tao be changed?

Once written by creators the definite meaning is put in the character. This meaning cannot be changed later.

 

Dao itself is unchangeable, but the character's writing and its understanding and interpretation have changed. see my attachment in the post above.

 

 

How can meaning of the one definite written chacter can be changed? I'm not saying about understanding and interpretations. We are talking about the old form of TAO.

 

 

1. There are a few ancient character writings. I gave a picture with various ancient forms of writing in the post above.

2. There are several points of view on the ancient character of Dao [and its right side] and its understanding and interpretation. [see above]

3. There are many different Daoist Schools, with own interpretation of different terms, methodologies, practice, philosophical notions about the world, human being etc.

4. That is why all the Traditional Schools emphasize the importance of an alive Master, who would be able to shed a light on all the nuances of theory and philosophy, and how they both are conceived in a certain School.

 

 

My second question - why don't you give the meaning of the old form of TAO in the article instead of modern interptratation that is far away from the old form meaning??

 

True meaning and interpretation of old and modern characters' writing are not far away from each other and their essential meanings are complementary.

Probably the description of the ancient character of Dao should be added into the article.

[ChiDragon]

True meaning and interpretation of old and modern characters' writing are not far away from each other and their essential meanings are complementary.

 

What do you mean by "their.......are complementary".....???

 

 

If the "True meaning and interpretation of old and modern characters' writing are not far away from each other", then why "Probably the description of the ancient character of Dao should be added into the article."...???

 

Edited October 15, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Vitalii]

 

What do you mean by "their.......are complementary".....??? If the "True meaning and interpretation of old and modern characters' writing are not far away from each other", then why "Probably the description of the ancient character of Dao should be added into the article."...???

 

They complement each other, because, as modern and old characters have different writing [for example, right side], their interpretation covers different aspects of understanding of the character "Dao". That is why the description of the ancient character should be added into the article, to demonstrate how exactly they complement each other.

[ChiDragon]

Okay, thank you. I guess I got hung up on the definition of "complement".