The MCO is Taoist fundamentalism

[mjjbecker]

I sit in full lotus at the computer but even then it can take a couple hours just to recover from reading thetaobums

 

That has to be one of the all-time greatest lines on this forum.

 

Personally it will be Gift of the Tao then some Stillness Movement for me.

Edited October 9, 2013 by mjjbecker

[effilang]

*Master Nan and Bodri warn that the book is a "tantra" practice - based on visualizations (instead of just Emptiness) focus and so that means it is very fast but also dangerous.

 

*But anyway so as for visualizations - the MCO practice is visualization!

 

I think that there is a big difference between actively using the acquired mind to visualize an objective as a form of instruction and simply shifting the location of focused attention without aiming to achieve any particular outcome.

 

One method is Wu Wei and Zi Ran where the mind is Yin and the body can be Yin or Yang, while the visualization method has the mind Yang and the body Yin or Yang.

 

If the mind is Yang through visualization then you are using the lower and acquired-ego-mind and that is not the most effective method. Rippled water cannot reflect the moon perfectly.

 

The MCO does not need visualization to run. The Du and Ren meridians have been running since before birth.

 

Shifting focus is not the same as visualisation, and the former on it's own will do just fine.

One is empty of mind and the other is full of mind.

 

If one chooses to visualize it, they may, but that is akin to a person standing on a river bank and coaxing the water to flow faster by means of slapping it in the direction of it's flow in the aim to influence it's speed. Whether you do it or don't, the river will continue to flow.

 

I'm not saying that visualization doesn't have it's uses or that it can't be applied to leading Qi. It can.

But there is a clear distinction IMO between shifting focus from point to point for an action to take place and that of visualizing the action taking place in a manner subjective to the imagination of your self.

 

As for not ejaculating - it's required from the beginning - or else how do you "still the heart" which is the focus of chapter one?

 

There are so many methods to still the heart and pacify the mind of it's emotions and attachments and in thus doing to reach a Zen like state of mind and spirit and they have nothing to do with not ejaculating.

 

In fact I could go and beat one off right now and come back and guarantee you that the level to which I have cultivated my mind/heart, wisdom and non-attachment will not be diminished.

 

It is as though a monk who has been practising mindfulness and non-attachment for 10 years will all of a sudden lose all his enlightenments and wisdoms if he decides to go on a 1 month fapping spree. No.

 

Here we are talking distinctly about cultivating JING, cultivating QI and cultivating SHEN.

 

These can be cultivated interdependently of one another. That's not to say that they will not influence one another, because they are integrally connected, so they will, but to say that the heart/mind cannot be stilled or cultivated directly without accumulating JING first is completely nonsensical, since JING relates to the low vibrational, dense matter of the body and not the Qi-Shen interface of the mind and spirit.

 

You said that he is projecting his Western Materialist views on the book, yet you are directly correlating the lack of wisdom achieved through developing the clarity and stillness of the heart, so that one may perceive reality directly to ejaculation.

 

Ejaculation IS NOT tied to emotions, but we can add emotions to the process and bind though forms and concepts to the act of sexual stimulation and embed our own idiosyncratic programming into it, but you can easily ejaculate with a clear mind, even a still heart.

 

So I very strongly disagree.

 

I sit in full lotus at the computer but even then it can take a couple hours just to recover from reading thetaobums

 

 

You can not create the lower tan tien if you have bad thoughts.

 

Yes you can fill it and bad thoughts or any thoughts will not stop you from doing so.

 

Good and Bad thoughts reside within the domain of the acquired-ego-mind, amidst that function, both good and bad it is a dichotomy of the discriminative mind.

 

It is the awareness of this functional process that is required to attain the state of non-mind necessary for proper alchemy, but that has nothing to do with the nature of your thoughts, but your DETACHMENT from them. If you think it does then you are trying to use the ego to train the ego and that is like a hamster on a wheel chasing a piece of imaginary cheese.

 

The mind (Zhi Shen) must become like a blank canvas, awaiting the brush of the master painter (Yuan Shen).

 

It is not the function of the acquired-ego-mind and it's discriminative process such as good and bad thoughts that fill the LDT, but the detachment from that trap completely.

 

There are MANY exercises and techniques that will help focus the energy into the LDT when you practice daily and what you have in your head at the time of practice makes no difference, whether you want to visualize whole galaxies being sucked into your LDT like a black hole or whether you want to visualize young virgins massaging your LDT, its up to you. They are all legitimate Taoist practices, and the virgins massaging the LDT is actually part of an actual Taoist practice for filling the LDT!

 

Filling the LDT is concerned more with Qi Gong, food/drink, sexual regulation, physical exercise and ingestion of herbs, the accumulated energy of which is then focused through EMPTY attention on your LDT. At this point the nature of your thoughts have nothing to do with it.

 

You can have bad thoughts in your head and still perform all manner of Qi manipulation, the Qi of your body does not discriminate, but your acquired-ego-mind does.

Edited October 9, 2013 by effilang

[Neophyte]

Just to protect innocent: Stay away from Micro Cosmic Orbit meditation especially if you are trying to learn it from Mantak Chia or others books. It is dangerous. To make an analogy with electricity, you may easily let too much current pass through the cables of your nervous system such that these cables will burn.

 

If you don't mind my asking, do you happen to know what the symptoms are, when this happens?

[effilang]

Just to protect innocent: Stay away from Micro Cosmic Orbit meditation especially if you are trying to learn it from Mantak Chia or others books. It is dangerous. To make an analogy with electricity, you may easily let too much current pass through the cables of your nervous system such that these cables will burn.

 

Mr. please stop with the scare tactics. The Ren and Du meridians have Qi flowing through them constantly, they are the sea of Yang and Yin Qi through which energy is delegated to all other meridians in the body, the remaining 6 extraordinary and 12 regular mai.

 

Current is like flow and speed. Voltage is the energy.

 

If you fill your bladder to max with urine and then take a leak is it going to make your urethra explode? - No. The pressure of a larger quantity of urine will simply make the liquid flow faster. That sort of speed is what is required to break through blockages in the meridian network. Like high pressure heated water through a rock.

 

If you wanted to increase the quantity of the energy and still maintain the same speed you might have the pipe burst and that would be a problem, but that is not how alchemy works. The energy is transmuted up a step and becomes finer and not coarser, which means less dense and vibrating faster so MORE can flow through the same network and even faster, without needing for the meridian itself to change to accommodate it, or be upgraded.

 

This is the energy transmuted, but after that the transmuted energy is further refined and this can change its property and also that of the meridians making them larger.

 

It doesn't just happen like *snap* your fingers and that's it. It's a gradual process and the body is designed to prepare itself automatically to accommodate it. If you apply your acquired-ego-mind and try to override the design protocol THEN you can cause problems, but that's entirely the fault of the operator and not the machine.

 

Plus the LDT is connected to the Ren Mai, Du Mai and Chong Mai in the body, so as the capacity and property of the LDT energy increases it naturally overflows into those meridians, which will feed and develop the remaining 17 channels. So Ren and Du are more than ready and capable of channelling the LDT energy when the time comes.

 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2013 by effilang

[traveler]

Such a variety of views! I like them all. You don't need to run just the orbit, nor should you. I'll talk about the eight psychic channels. That's where running the orbit took me pretty quick back then. I recall the tongue to palate connection being a blockage for me until one day I suddenly felt an electric charge run through my tongue and the orbit opened up. The eight psychic channels, also called strange flows by the Jin-Shin-Do folks, connect with the regular twelve meridians acting as regulators of energy concentration. Running the orbit or, better yet, the eight psychic channels, opens them or clears them so they can function more effectively as regulators. I am speaking to the choir here, no doubt, but some will not know this.

I started the Taoist practice of sublimating my sex energy every morning with my lover at the same time as I began opening the orbit. This was my way of going natural and not directing the energy. I directed my energy part of the time during meditation by running the orbit, then let the energy go where it wanted to during sublimative sex. The other half of my formula was to look upward; this is sex energy meeting prayer energy.

From my perspective, the point of this was to open up into deeper parts of my Self, passing through layers of consciousness until these two energies or parts of Self merged. When they did merge, my inner world ignited with fire for a couple months followed by months of feeling very quiet. One morning, my belly stirred and soon a new kind of energy began moving up my spine. It was a wide band of golden light and felt like spirit or bliss. I didn't direct this new energy. I tried but it had its own agenda. The light moved a short way up the spine and then stopped as if hitting a blockage. Then a moment later it tried again, and again - all day long. Over time, the light opened up the doors in my spine and reached my head, spreading out into the whole body from there.

Looking back, I wonder if I even needed to run the orbit to awaken this other light. I never ran the orbit after that time. It just does it on its own. As I am sitting here typing, I feel energy running through me, but not in the orbit or any particular channel; I feel it in every part of my body simultaneously. The Secret of the Golden Flower says that when the Master comes home, the servants follow orders. I was the servant running the orbit, then after this light awoke, I was the servant taking orders.

 

If I was to give a conclusion, I would say that you direct your energy at first and that is no longer is necessary when the golden light wakens. Or, you could use a more natural way which lets your energy move where it wishes to. Both seem to work, according to all the comments above. The English say that there is more than one way to skin a cat. The Hawaiians say that all knowledge is not taught in one school.

NOTE: Yikes! I go and type out a post and after publishing it I find that I was commenting on a different page of the thread.

 

So, I'll add a little bit more. My interpretation of Luk's book is that the tzu hour is the whole positive half of the day. The penis stands erect without provocation, without meditating on it as was mentioned somewhere above, but will not do this until you're ready for it. This, undoubtedly is related to the level of testosterone you have. I began to experience this at a certain point and not before. It would become erect without provocation several times a night, and as late as 11:30 AM the next morning, but never after the noon hour. I used a variety of techniques to shirk it down, from running the orbit to getting up and doing a sublimative breath/yoga posse. At first I didn't know what was happening and used it the way God intended, if she was awake. That didn't seem to hurt my efforts except that it took longer to move on.

Edited October 9, 2013 by traveler

[effilang]

I highly doubt that your efforts in running the orbit before the belly had stirred contributed to the belly stirring or the golden light shooting up the spine to break past the three gates.

 

Rather it was probably your sexual sublimation that helped compound the energy in the LDT until it began to vibrate and move, indicating it was time for it to travel up the spine.

 

This is the genuine spontaneous movement of the energy up the spine and it NEED not be directed by visualisation. It's automatic.

 

I feel so much joy reading your post to know that you have achieved this.

 

Much success on your path : )

Edited October 9, 2013 by effilang

[Isimsiz Biri]

Just to protect innocent: Stay away from Micro Cosmic Orbit meditation especially if you are trying to learn it from Mantak Chia or others books. It is dangerous. To make an analogy with electricity, you may easily let too much current pass through the cables of your nervous system such that these cables will burn.

 

If you don't mind my asking, do you happen to know what the symptoms are, when this happens?

 

Sirs,

 

I have known some people who had practiced Micro Cosmic Orbit Meditation from Mantak Chia books and then had nervous breakdowns and/or some indications similar to Kundalini syndrome.

 

I got into very unpleasant discussions about Mo Pai in this forum so I really have no intention to continue to post in this thread. I clearly made my warning. That is it, either buy it or neglect it, it is your free will.

 

 

Mr. please stop with the scare tactics. The Ren and Du meridians have Qi flowing through them constantly, they are the sea of Yang and Yin Qi through which energy is delegated to all other meridians in the body, the remaining 6 extraordinary and 12 regular mai.

Since when saying the truths did become scare tactics? Interesting.

The meridians you mentioned is not all the energy lines in the body. There are many others unkown by Traditional Chinese Medicine and/or Daoism.

 

 

Current is like flow and speed. Voltage is the energy.

If you want to make analogy between mechanical and electrical systems. Yes, current is analogous to flow and speed. Voltage is not analogous to energy but it is analogous to pressure or potential. For your information, I am an engineer.

 

 

If you fill your bladder to max with urine and then take a leak is it going to make your urethra explode? - No. The pressure of a larger quantity of urine will simply make the liquid flow faster. That sort of speed is what is required to break through blockages in the meridian network. Like high pressure heated water through a rock.

The urethra is a flexible tank. And also, urine cells are able to change its volumes such that they can be compressed to be fit in the same volume. If you have enough amount urine, you start to pee unwillingly. Let us say that some sadist medical personnel made an experiment on your body and they blocked the passage of urine. Then your urethra would explode definitely. Hydrostatic pressure is no joke.

 

Having said the above, yes you are right, higher the entrance pressure or voltage or potential, higher the flow rate or current.

The question is very simple: If you raise the pressure or voltage higher than the capacity of pipe or cable, what will happen?

Answer: The pipe will burst, the cable will burn.

 

If you wanted to increase the quantity of the energy and still maintain the same speed you might have the pipe burst and that would be a problem, but that is not how alchemy works. The energy is transmuted up a step and becomes finer and not coarser, which means less dense and vibrating faster so MORE can flow through the same network and even faster, without needing for the meridian itself to change to accommodate it, or be upgraded.

This is the energy transmuted, but after that the transmuted energy is further refined and this can change its property and also that of the meridians making them larger.

It doesn't just happen like *snap* your fingers and that's it. It's a gradual process and the body is designed to prepare itself automatically to accommodate it. If you apply your acquired-ego-mind and try to override the design protocol THEN you can cause problems, but that's entirely the fault of the operator and not the machine.

Plus the LDT is connected to the Ren Mai, Du Mai and Chong Mai in the body, so as the capacity and property of the LDT energy increases it naturally overflows into those meridians, which will feed and develop the remaining 17 channels. So Ren and Du are more than ready and capable of channelling the LDT energy when the time comes.

 

 

I totally disagree energy being transmuted. You are playing a very dangerous game here. It may not be harmful for everybody at the same degree, but for some of the people it is dangerous. Especially, if you do not have a master by you to supervise you. You are saying that alchemy does not work like this. Pardon me, do you have an ability to follow Qi or energy within one's body? How do you be certain about your statements? How do you know the working principles of Alchemy? You read in Mantak Chia or similar authors books?

Edited October 10, 2013 by Isimsiz Biri

[effilang]

Stay away from Micro Cosmic Orbit meditation especially if you are trying to learn it from Mantak Chia or others books. It is dangerous.

 

If you think that then you do not understand Taoist alchemy and should not be advising others on what to practice and what not to practice.

 

I have known some people who had practiced Micro Cosmic Orbit Meditation from Mantak Chia books and then had nervous breakdowns and/or some indications similar to Kundalini syndrome.

 

Can you invite these people here to talk about their experiences?

 

Since when saying the truths did become scare tactics? Interesting.

 

Since telling someone in a Taoist forum frequented by many enthusiastic novices, that the foundational practices of spiritual Taoist alchemy are dangerous and should not be practised.

 

The meridians you mentioned is not all the energy lines in the body. There are many others unkown by Traditional Chinese Medicine and/or Daoism.

 

They are in the Micro and Macro CO, and that's what this thread and your reply are about.

 

If you want to make analogy between mechanical and electrical systems. Yes, current is analogous to flow and speed. Voltage is not analogous to energy but it is analogous to pressure or potential. For your information, I am an engineer.

 

I am relating the terms to Qi in a meridian and not an electrical circuit. For your information, I am not an engineer.

 

The urethra is a flexible tank. And also, urine cells are able to change its volumes such that they can be compressed to be fit in the same volume. If you have enough amount urine, you start to pee unwillingly. Let us say that some sadist medical personnel made an experiment on your body and they blocked the passage of urine. Then your urethra will explode definitely. Hydrostatic pressure is no joke.

 

In my illustration the bladder is the LDT, the urethra is the Du Mai and the urine is the Jing before transmutation.

 

The question is very simple: If you raise the pressure or voltage higher than the capacity of pipe or cable, what will happen? Answer: The pipe will burst, the cable will burn.

 

The pipe doesn't burst in Taoist alchemy. The Jing is transmuted through mind-celibacy into a substance which vibrates faster. is lighter and has less density.

 

I totally disagree energy being transmuted. You are playing a very dangerous game here. It may not be harmful for everybody at the same degree, but for some of the people it is dangerous. Especially, if you do not have a master by you to supervise you. You are saying that alchemy does not work like this. Pardon me, do you have an ability to follow Qi or energy within one's body? How do you be certain about your statements? How do you know the working principles of Alchemy? You read in Mantak Chia or similar authors books?

 

Yes I have the ability to lead Qi in my body and in the body of others and have developed a sensitivity to it through meditation.

 

I am certain because I have used my body as a laboratory and have derived factual data through numerous experiments: The results are the same as with anyone who practices alchemy in a Wu Wei and Zi Ran state of body and mind; only good things happen.

 

We are not dealing with dead energy in alchemy. It is intelligent energy that exists in different forms. There are careful timings which must be respected and followed during alchemy. Timings of the heavenly bodies, timings of the man's body and timings of the earth in order to know whether the mind should be active or inactive, the breath still or moving, the force exerted or pacified.

 

If the mind is Yang and visualizing when it should be Yin to facilitate an automatic process, then you can cause problems. But this is in no way exclusive to alchemy. The same goes for any operation under the sun. If the user is incompetent or poorly trained, the odds of a negative outcome increase.

 

Being an engineer doesn't mean you will understand alchemy. They are not analogous practices. Otherwise spiritual cultivation would have been in your textbooks considering it's significance.

 

The energy does not stay the same. Through appropriate practice, the vibration of the energy constantly rises and it's density decreases, until it gradually pierces through the 3rd dimension and into the 4th and 5th.

 

I totally disagree energy being transmuted.

 

Transmutation is the basis of Taoist alchemy. If you do not agree with this, then you do not understand it and you should not be advising people on the topic.

 

If the JING didn't transmute to QI through the appropriate practices then you would simply ejaculate involuntarily when the LDT filled up, as does everyone.

Edited October 10, 2013 by effilang

[xor]

 

I got into very unpleasant discussions about Mo Pai in this forum so I really have no intention to continue to post in this thread. I clearly made my warning. That is it, either buy it or neglect it, it is your free will.

 

That unpleasantness could have been avoided if you provided your source or proof besides allegory and unsubstantiable gossip for your warnings on the "mo pai". You seem to be warning people about lots of things. Have you heard of the boy who cried wolf?

[Isimsiz Biri]

If you think that then you do not understand Taoist alchemy and should not be advising others on what to practice and what not to practice.

The problem is you are the one who does not understand Taoist alchemy and you are not aware of this point.

 

Can you invite these people here to talk about their experiences?

20 years has passed since I read Mantak Chia books. I have lost contact with them. I sincerely wish I could.

 

Since telling someone in a Taoist forum frequented by many enthusiastic novices, that the foundational practices of spiritual Taoist alchemy are dangerous and should not be practised.

Again, you did not get my point. I told that if you learn these "foundational" practices from Mantak Chia books, you are in danger. If you are able to find a real master, practice with him/her.

 

They are in the Micro and Macro CO, and that's what this thread and your reply are about.

This thread is about MCO but my reply is not about MCO, it is advanced than MCO.

 

I am relating the terms to Qi in a meridian and not an electrical circuit. For your information, I am not an engineer.

I made the electrical analogy for the lack of a better example. From your sentence, "Voltage is energy", we already understood that you are not an engineer, additionally, I see that physics was not your favorite lesson in high school.

 

In my illustration the bladder is the LDT, the urethra is the Du Mai and the urine is the Jing before transmutation.

I perfectly understood that the terms of analogy (not illustration). Jing, Qi and Shen has many many types. It is not Jing only. Jing is the general name of a category. It is not Qi either. Qi is the name of a general category too.

 

The pipe doesn't burst in Taoist alchemy. The Jing is transmuted through mind-celibacy into a substance which vibrates faster. is lighter and has less density.

Yes that pipe can burst, did burst for somebody and may burst for some others if they practice from the Mantak Chia books. It does not burst if you are working with a real Shifu from a real lineage.

 

Yes I have the ability to lead Qi in my body and in the body of others and have developed a sensitivity to it through meditation.

How do you understand that you lead Qi in your body? You sense some heat, some tingling or some cold? Or could you make telekinesis for instance?

 

 

I am certain because I have used my body as a laboratory and have derived factual data through numerous experiments: The results are the same as with anyone who practices alchemy in a Wu Wei and Zi Ran state of body and mind; only good things happen.

What kind of "experiments" are these? Could you describe?

How do you define "Wu Wei" state? How do you understand that you or somebody else reach that state?

How do you define "Zi Ran" state? How do you understand that you or somebody else reach that state?

What kind of good things happen? For instance, does cancer heal? Does open wounds heal instantaneously? Or Do you see some angels? What kind of good things?

 

 

We are not dealing with dead energy in alchemy. It is intelligent energy that exists in different forms. There are careful timings which must be respected and followed during alchemy. Timings of the heavenly bodies, timings of the man's body and timings of the earth in order to know whether the mind should be active or inactive, the breath still or moving, the force exerted or pacified.

If the mind is Yang and visualizing when it should be Yin to facilitate an automatic process, then you can cause problems. But this is in no way exclusive to alchemy. The same goes for any operation under the sun. If the user is incompetent or poorly trained, the odds of a negative outcome increase.

Being an engineer doesn't mean you will understand alchemy. They are not analogous practices. Otherwise spiritual cultivation would have been in your textbooks considering it's significance.

The energy does not stay the same. Through appropriate practice, the vibration of the energy constantly rises and it's density decreases, until it gradually pierces through the 3rd dimension and into the 4th and 5th.

Transmutation is the basis of Taoist alchemy. If you do not agree with this, then you do not understand it and you should not be advising people on the topic.

If the JING didn't transmute to QI through the appropriate practices then you would simply ejaculate involuntarily when the LDT filled up, as does everyone.

 

 

What is dead energy?

 

What is Yang and Yin according to you?

 

I know "Daoist" practices as much as you do, I am not speaking as an engineer here.

 

How do you define 3rd, 4th, and 5th dimensions? Have you observed that 5th dimension? Could you please describe us this 5th dimension so everybody can learn?

 

Transmutation is of course basis of Alchemy. The problem is are you doing transmutation? Or are you just thinking you are doing transmutation? How do you understand?

 

Loss of Jing through ejaculation is also a "Daoist" myth.

 

Anyway, my point is very simple. If you are practicing MCO from Mantak Chia books, you are in risk. Full Stop.

[effilang]

Good luck with your practise Mr.

[Isimsiz Biri]

Good luck with your practise Mr.

 

I wish exactly the same for you Mr.

[traveler]

effilang, I took the liberty to read some of your posts from over this summer. It appears that we have something in common: we're both chasing the promise of Immortality. I too have read and reread Taoist Yoga, Inner Alchemy and Immortality, along with numerous other texts on the subject. I invite you to participate in a thread with me on the subject and we will kick this topic around.

[effilang]

Yes. There should be some good posts in the Taoist Yoga thread. We had lengthy discussions there on alchemy. Not sure where it is though

 

Looks like someone started another one recently: http://thetaobums.com/topic/31556-unraveling-taoist-yoga/

Edited October 10, 2013 by effilang

[traveler]

Yes, I see the new thread. I dislike arguments such as what took place directly above. I don't see how that is useful. Everyone's point of view has validity.

Edited October 10, 2013 by traveler

[effilang]

it is useful, because doubt and fear kills more dreams than failure ever will and due to some posters on this forum which I consider to be inexperienced, impressionable novices whom come here to learn end up reading discouraging warnings like the below.

 

Just to protect innocent: Stay away from Micro Cosmic Orbit meditation especially if you are trying to learn it from Mantak Chia or others books. It is dangerous.

 

And then try to backpedal their way out of their own bullshit by claiming they never said it.

 

I told that if you learn these "foundational" practices from Mantak Chia books, you are in danger. If you are able to find a real master, practice with him/her.

 

Yes, I think it's not only useful, but an imperative service to uphold the reality of the truth while eliminating false statements. Especially in an educational environment. It's not just about standing up for what you believe in, but for what others have a right to experience without fear.

 

Why do you think I didn't bother replying to all the questions in his last post?

 

He claims to have been practising for 20 years, yet is asking me kindergarten type questions regarding alchemy and making completely anti-Taoist statements about spiritual cultivation, such as staying away from MCO and negating the transmutation of energy.

 

When someone says that on a forum like this, their credibility goes right out the window. Yet, they want to instruct people...

 

If the engineer wants his questions answered, he need only search for my posts on this forum. I have answered them all before, including cancer treatment which is standard practice in Qi Gong healing.

 

Traveler, if you'd like you can add me to Skype: effilang

Perhaps we can exchange some reading material?

 

Everyone's point of view has validity.

 

Indeed. Because our view is dependent on our experience. Our view is always valid, but that does not make it right nor does it apply to everyone en masse.

 

Edited October 10, 2013 by effilang

[traveler]

Thank you for responding. Everyone has their own style of teaching and learning. I tend toward what the Breema folks call sharing existence. Nirod once said, "Don't teach God, share God." That is my style. The beginner is hopelessly lost here due to all the variance of opinion. Following their own inner guidance is the only way to see what will be useful for them. I will hang out in this forum for a while and see what I can learn.

 

My computer is having issues with skype, but help is on its way.

Edited October 10, 2013 by traveler

[Isimsiz Biri]

it is useful, because doubt and fear kills more dreams than failure ever will and due to some posters on this forum which I consider to be inexperienced, impressionable novices whom come here to learn end up reading discouraging warnings like the below.

And then try to backpedal their way out of their own bullshit by claiming they never said it.

Yes, I think it's not only useful, but an imperative service to uphold the reality of the truth while eliminating false statements. Especially in an educational environment. It's not just about standing up for what you believe in, but for what others have a right to experience without fear.

Why do you think I didn't bother replying to all the questions in his last post?

He claims to have been practising for 20 years, yet is asking me kindergarten type questions regarding alchemy and making completely anti-Taoist statements about spiritual cultivation, such as staying away from MCO and negating the transmutation of energy.

When someone says that on a forum like this, their credibility goes right out the window. Yet, they want to instruct people...

If the engineer wants his questions answered, he need only search for my posts on this forum. I have answered them all before, including cancer treatment which is standard practice in Qi Gong healing.

Traveler, if you'd like you can add me to Skype: effilang

Perhaps we can exchange some reading material?

Indeed. Because our view is dependent on our experience. Our view is always valid, but that does not make it right nor does it apply everyone en masse.

Now we receive answers from the mysterious 5th dimension. I asked you questions and you could not reply them as you do not know the answers.

 

And you started crying like a baby who lost his toy. Either reply my questions like a gentleman or stop splattering your bullshit.

 

So you had said that you can treat cancer with your Qigong which John Chang can not treat? Have you won Nobel prize in medicine? I think you should

Edited October 10, 2013 by Isimsiz Biri

[effilang]

If the engineer wants his questions answered, he need only search for my posts on this forum. I have answered them all before, including cancer treatment which is standard practice in Qi Gong healing.

 

John Chang? Really?....

 

I rest my case.

[joeblast]

Now we receive answers from the mysterious 5th dimension. I asked you questions and you could not reply them as you do not know the answers.

 

And you started crying like a baby who lost his toy. Either reply my questions like a gentleman or stop splattering your bullshit.

 

So you had said that you can treat cancer with your Qigong which John Chang can not treat? Have you won Nobel prize in medicine? I think you should

Are you adding to this thread or are you just going to keep heckling?

[traveler]

Are you adding to this thread or are you just going to keep heckling?

Ditto.

 

So, back to the topic. Here is a good question: What is the difference between the Orbit and the Four-fold Orbit?

Edited October 10, 2013 by traveler

[Isimsiz Biri]

John Chang? Really?....

 

I rest my case.

 

 

Nobody is obliged to look for your old bullshit. You already have plenty of them here. If you can not win Nobel Prize in medicine, try Nobel Prize in physics. After all, you know the 4th and 5th dimensions. How does it happen? During meditation, suddenly you shake with energy and you see the image of numeral "5" and you say "Aha, I am in the 5th dimension!"?

[effilang]

Ditto.

 

So, back to the topic. Here is a good question: What is the difference between the Orbit and the Four-fold Orbit?

 

Do you know of another name for this Four-Fold Orbit? - I'm not familiar with the expression.

 

Are you adding to this thread or are you just going to keep heckling?

 

Obviously just heckling, as you can see below. He is on the wrong forum TBH.

Nobody is obliged to look for your old bullshit. You already have plenty of them here. If you can not win Nobel Prize in medicine, try Nobel Prize in physics. After all, you know the 4th and 5th dimensions. How does it happen? During meditation, suddenly you shake with energy and you see the image of numeral "5" and you say "Aha, I am in the 5th dimension!"?

Edited October 11, 2013 by effilang

[traveler]

Ah, I see I made a mistake. Taoist Yoga calls this "fourfold immortal breathing" not an orbit. Because it moves energy up the spine and down the frontline, I call it a type of microcosmic orbit. But there are wonderful differences. "Wheel of the Law" is another term the book uses to describe this. I have my take on "fourfold immortal breathing", but first, what is yours?

[effilang]

I see what you mean now!

 

Yes, but you have:

 

- The Wheel of Law (Manual)

- The Wheel of Law (Automatic)

 

The manual circulation I understand is by breathing first from the heels up the Yin Channels of the legs to the Hui Yin and into the Du Mai to the Bai Hui and from there exhaling to drop the Postnatal Qi down the Ren Mai past the Xia Dan Tien and to the Hui Yin. - For this process the manual external respiration is used through the opening and closing mechanism.

 

The manual circulation then triggers the automatic internal respiration, in all accomplishing 4 events:

 

Two. manual and two automatic, namely:

 

1. The ascent of Postnatal Qi from the heels to the brain via the yin leg channels and governing vessel.

2. The descent of Postnatal Qi from the brain to the hui yin via the control vessel

 

Intermediary event: The vibration of Prenatal Qi in the Xia Dan Tien as a result of manual circulation.

.

3. The ascent of Prenatal Qi from the Xia Dan Tien via the hui yin and up the governing vessel to the brain.

4. The descent of Prenatal Qi from the brain to the hui yin via the control vessel.

 

From what I understand this then causes the Prenatal Qi to circulate automatically.

 

Although I am not sure if this process refers to the standard MCO or is a different configuration that must include the yin leg channels in order to cause a second vibration in the Xia Dan Tien, different from the fist vibration encountered during the initial stages of JING conservation and transmutation prior to opening the orbit.

 

Maybe Drew will chime in on this one if he has time.

Edited October 11, 2013 by effilang