if reincarnation is real do certain races require more

[三江源]

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Edited July 21, 2014 by cat

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Vortex, it's very interesting.. the author also says that we may not bring with us, to each incarnation, all that we have available. We may bring only a certain percentage into a certain lifetime, and leave a percentage elsewhere to rest , meditate, integrate and learn elsewhere.

 

So we may be a partial manifestation of something larger or deeper.

 

 

Relatively speaking, yes.

 

 

"We" are individuals. so... individually speaking, there is no "we" and yet it could be viewed as "we" are all contained within each other, and we are all, each and every one of us, those "percentages elsewhere to rest , meditate, integrate and learn (elsewhere)."

 

At rest within me, lies you.

[ChiForce]

Karma is the result of motives and intentions and deeds. Not because of your race. However, if you are so happened to be a white American and a member of the KKK and who regularly beats up black people, yeah, your karma is strong.

 

Another aspect that may influence karma is merit. Not the race merit considering the definition of race varies depending on the political climate of the time. Merit is still referring to the individual merit generated from their previous lives. Yes, you can be reincarnated into another race and culture.

[Rara]

i've felt for some time now that from a reincarnation standpoint some races require a higher lottery ticket, if you will, than others. this can quickly fall into some kind of strange strain of racism but the basic idea is that some races require a higher karmic level of sorts to reincarnate into than others.

 

is this at all possible or feasible according to people who know more than i?

 

hmm...

 

I've been thinking a lot about this lately...but for Karma to be real, it implies a greater force that is JUDGMENTAL! Also, if all is one, so how can it attach to any one individual? Plus, we all appear to be absolutely helpless when it comes to decision making anyway...did I chose to write this or was it going to happen anyway? At which point did I make the choice myself? How responsible am I for this action...this impulse?

 

I welcome any answers!

[xor]

I've been thinking a lot about this lately...but for Karma to be real, it implies a greater force that is JUDGMENTAL! Also, if all is one, so how can it attach to any one individual? Plus, we all appear to be absolutely helpless when it comes to decision making anyway...did I chose to write this or was it going to happen anyway? At which point did I make the choice myself? How responsible am I for this action...this impulse?

 

I welcome any answers!

 

Depends on what your definition of karma is. The western popular version is quite different from Jainism for example where it's considered to be something like dirt that is on your soul. Also there isn't good or bad karma. All karma is bad. Well that's how I understand their view. Here's a quote from wikipedia on Karma in Jainism:

 

"According to Indologist Robert J. Zydenbos, karma is a system of natural laws, where actions that carry moral significance are considered to cause certain consequences in the same way as physical actions. When one holds an apple and then lets it go, the apple will fall. There is no judge, and no moral judgment involved, since this is a mechanical consequence of the physical action.^[10] In the same manner, consequences occur naturally when one utters a lie, steals something, commits senseless violence or leads a life of debauchery. Rather than assume that these consequences—the moral rewards and retributions—are a work of some divine judge, Jains believe that there is an innate moral order in the cosmos, self-regulating through the workings of the law of karma. Morality and ethics are important in Jainism not because of a God, but because a life led in agreement with moral and ethical principles (mahavrata) is considered beneficial: it leads to a decrease—and finally to the total loss of—karma, which in turn leads to everlasting happiness.^[11] The Jain conception of karma takes away the responsibility for salvation from God and bestows it on man himself."

Edited August 23, 2013 by Guest

[yondaime109]

I've been thinking a lot about this lately...but for Karma to be real, it implies a greater force that is JUDGMENTAL! Also, if all is one, so how can it attach to any one individual? Plus, we all appear to be absolutely helpless when it comes to decision making anyway...did I chose to write this or was it going to happen anyway? At which point did I make the choice myself? How responsible am I for this action...this impulse?

 

I welcome any answers!

You reap what you sow, This is one the many laws of the universe.

[Rara]

So really, we're just talking "cause and effect" ... the stuff we can actually see to be true. Reincarnation karma is simply dogma...

[Marblehead]

So really, we're just talking "cause and effect" ... the stuff we can actually see to be true. Reincarnation karma is simply dogma...

You said that better than I normally do.

[Flolfolil]

You reap what you sow, This is one the many laws of the universe.

Sometimes other people receive the benefit of your actions while you receive the negative effects of their actions

 

So, i would personally reword your statement to say "What is sewn shall be reaped"

[xor]

Basically, if you have life you will have causality/karma dictate it. If you accept the above definition of karma(the quote from Zybendos), then minimizing it is reasonable. Not because someone tells you what's right but because you want the end goal of freedom.

Edited August 23, 2013 by Guest

[ChiForce]

So really, we're just talking "cause and effect" ... the stuff we can actually see to be true. Reincarnation karma is simply dogma...

Except no one can predict or know the cause or the effect. They are often played out over several life times. Many seem to have neglected the social aspect of it. ALL of us are born under a particular social class (rich or poor) or cultural groups or political circumstances. That would often dictate the path of our karma.

[Rara]

 

Except no one can predict or know the cause or the effect. They are often played out over several life times. Many seem to have neglected the social aspect of it. ALL of us are born under a particular social class (rich or poor) or cultural groups or political circumstances. That would often dictate the path of our karma.

I see what you're saying...but if I decide to do something, then that causes some "effect". A "butterfly effect" even...so therefore, our karma is down to us regardless. But that's not to say an external power will control that outcome...it would be a natural effect of our own actions.

 

Feel free to disagree, I'm still learning in my own head

Edited August 23, 2013 by Rara

[Rara]

I'm seeing a paradox in what I just said. I know what I mean lol

[Marblehead]

I see what you're saying...but if I decide to do something, then that causes some "effect". A "butterfly effect" even...so therefore, our karma is down to us regardless. But that's not to say an external power will control that outcome...it would be a natural effect of our own actions.

 

Feel free to disagree, I'm still learning in my own head

Well, if you don't change your mind you have at least one person who agrees with you - me.

[gendao]

Statistically speaking, there seem to be more Indian and Asian adepts, today and in history, but that has nothing to do with race and everything with culture, religion, politics. I can currently name only two African adepts, the ascended master Afra and Jim Nancy of SFQ, but maybe I'm poorly informed.

Or might it? A lot of the most powerful, spiritual, naturalist energy healers in the world appear to exhibit a similar "Asianesque" heritage. Like the continental Asians, Native Americans and also the San Bushmen of the Kalahari...

Aside from the obvious physical resemblances, they also speak in a "tonal click" language, perhaps remotely similar to how Chinese is also multi-tonal?

 

Were these perhaps prototypical Asians, who later interbred with Neanderthals and diverged further into other "races"...?

 

In Africa, the Bushmen hunter-gatherers are now considered "trespassing nuisances" who are often variously bullied by both White & Black landowners..

The Bushmen have lived for decades as southern Africa's underclass -- despised as an inferior race by both whites and blacks, once hunted as cattle-killing vermin, now disdained and brutalized.

And because they were never warlike, they and their ancient spiritual "n/umgong" culture are in danger of extinction now...

Of prime importance in all San groups is a ritual dance that serves to heal the group. The great 'medicine or healing dance' and the rain dance were rituals in which everyone participated. During these dances, the women usually sat around a central fire as they sang and clapped their hands.

 

The men then first danced around the women in a clockwise direction and then vice versa. As the dance increased in intensity, the dancers reached trance-like, altered, states of consciousness and were transported into the spirit realm where they could plead for the souls of the sick.

 

These trance dances are depicted in the rock art left behind by the San. The shamanic figures are often painted in strange 'bending forward' postures. Shamans or 'medicine men' explained later that they adopted this posture during their trance dances because they experienced a great deal of pain when the 'potency' started boiling in their stomachs and their stomach muscles started contracting.

 

They also often experienced spontaneous nosebleeds at this time. These nosebleeds are depicted in the many rock paintings of trance dances. As other groups invaded the territory of the San and influenced their way of life, the pictures of soldiers, wagons and horses served to record historical events.

 

These trance dances are depicted in the rock art left behind by the San. The shamanic figures are often painted in strange 'bending forward' postures. Shamans or 'medicine men' explained later that they adopted this posture during their trance dances because they experienced a great deal of pain when the 'potency' started boiling in their stomachs and their stomach muscles started contracting.

 

The San are a friendly, creative, and peaceful people, who never developed any weapons of war, and have lived in harmony with their natural environment for at least 20 000 years. Properly restored to their ancestral lands, and reintegrated into the game reserves of southern Africa, San communities could become self-sustaining.

 

Due to absorption but mostly extinction, the San may soon cease to exist as a separate people. Unfortunately, they may soon only be viewed in national museums. Their traditions, beliefs and culture may soon only be found in historical journals.

Edited August 23, 2013 by vortex

[Rara]

Aha! Found the thread.

 

Just watched this from Alan Watts and felt it to be quite relevant:

 

 

I find the part about "cheating karma" or "cheating the devil" particularly interesting. Reason being is that, I constantly find myself thinking that I need to do certain things to undo bad karma (even though I don't want to believe it, I'm still figuring out a way) I often find that I'm never successful in any attempt and I jut get stressed with it all.

 

TRYING to do certain good deeds and TRYING to ignore the impulses to do bad ones (like subtly deceiving people to get their custom - I mean hell, I find it difficult to sell my service because my honest belief is that no one NEEDS anything so to speak...so I'm forcing myself to try and believe they need my service!) - for the record, I have an erratic career or a musician/actor and have to make up my shortfalls with freelance marketing jobs.

 

So eventually I end up having to, in my mind, lie a bit to put food on the table. But this is just something that I have a problem with - I just have a belief system that money is a load of crap and who am I to try and sell my service to someone because there's very few services that I really appreciate in the world? lol

 

Does that mean I still carry bad karma? Should I be ridding myself of my business life because the back of my mind sees selling as bad? Probably not. Other people wont see a problem with what I do...so therefore, in someone else's eyes, I'm not doing anything wrong.

 

But this is the sort of complicated thinking that Watts describes in the video and on the other hand to all of this, maybe I should just forget everything and just get on with it. Day by day, task by task. maybe my belief system is the problem and I have a guilty conscience for absolutely no reason at all! Perhaps my brain just needs to switch off!

 

Just thinking this might have been better in a new thread. Oh well, see what people think hehe.

[ion]

Race and karma have some strickengly equivalent similarities; the most notable of which is that niether exists by their own accord, but the human condition as it is continues their existance.

 

Karma, as something bad to get rid ofor unddo, is something that will create more karma. The idea is to discontinue any entaglements to the durrent reality, so , you want to first stop believing in bad or good, then you can start to see what karma really is, because even though there is no bad or good, and no god or anything delivering justice bases on morality, there still really is the issue of Karma for a follower of Tao to deal with,

 

So what is it? Cut and dry, plain and simple, Karma, he immutable force that the liberated are unsubject to is symmetry.

 

Just like a leaf has two identical sides, and everything else in nature, so do events, phenomenon and happenings have symmetric reflections, though in the immaterial, they are less discernible by the average eye.

 

One reason they are not as discernable, is because of the way we as people label things, or judge them within our spectrum of like and dislike, or good or bad. When "karma is visable, the good recieve good and the bad recieve bad; when it is invisable except to the evolved eye where good and bad are equal, then it is seen that the exact elements are on both sides, where some times the good recieve the bad, and the bad recieve good, the elements are all the same but we prioritize them differently. This is why the "evolved" or discerning eye percieves karma as symmetry, the vehicle of time and creation, not Karma, the delivereer of moraly based justice.

 

Better to not influence your fate in chance happening by believing in concepts like good or bad, better to serve others and aim for the middle path, then symmetry serves you.

 

Now, with that said, there is "good" and "bad" karma, good karma would be a lack of entanglements, allowing you to peacably return to a state of non0being, identifying with nothing; bad karma would be extranuous entaglements causing you to dwell in longer states of being identifying with th egotistical state; a state where in you have to practice way to get out of with out accumulating more busyness percieved from an egotistical state.

 

The best and onlyway for a person to avoid karma regarless of race, is to cultivate an identityless state, meditate much if not most of the time, and to keep ones activities centered around the serviv=ce of others.

 

All activities generate a symmetry/karmic necessity to happen, so pure meditation is the absolute best way to serve others and accumulate NO karma.

 

In order for that to be true in its purest form, a psycholigcal state, or level of understanding has to be reached, not taught, that all efforts in serving humanity are futile and counter intuitive because of the nature of Samsara and ignorance/illusion. When this understanding is reached, one understands there is nothing more progressive/productive towards the salvation of humanity, other then to sit in meditation and to make NO false moves.

[ion]

If there is no "Karma" then where does it/symmetry come from. It comes fom our collective understanding of morality and justice...more realisticly, it is influenced by those things, but what it really is, (symmetry in events) has its birth as a force of nature, long before time.

 

Its birth into objectivity happens when the yin gave birth to yang. As soon as yang is, symmetry between yin and yang was, so symmetry has been an eternal law since beginingless time. And like the rest of Tao, it diversified from utter formlessness and elaborated as it issued forth with time space materiel and form into the socially influenced force that it is for many today.

[Meroe]

You serious? I thought we're just tribal savages that did nothing for 100,000 years straight. Elaborate please?

This mindset to me, is incredibly sad. Our people had a glorious past in antiquity. I believe we have as much merit as the next "race" just different circumstances. This is a self defeating mindset that can spread & infect other parts of your life negatively. Combat this with knowledge. Admittedly the Eurocentric form of history has painted us in a negative light,with a huge lack of interest in the many kingdoms that once reigned in Africa. My advice is to do your own research. enough educating materials are out there to defeat this. You'd be suprised, especially from a spiritual perspective.

 

In response to the topic, it's interesting because I've been contemplating this very concept myself. What conclusion I've came to is that melanin is a very "yin" sort of chemical, to allow certain people's to deal with the sun on full capacity with no harm whatsoever, compared to others. I personally believe this has an application esoterically in some form or fashion.... I do feel like where you're living as opposed to what racial construct has a much greater effect, but there's so many variables, who can truly know save for God?

[Rara]

@ion I like your post a lot. So are you saying that any "misfortunes" would be down to our own perceptions of good and bad, and if one is to experience "bad karma", it's down to their own particular attachment to that particular guilt?

 

If so, then we should kill karma in our practice...forget about it. Without it there, we can't drag ourselves down...

[Marblehead]

If so, then we should kill karma in our practice...forget about it. Without it there, we can't drag ourselves down...

I just felt like repeating this.

 

(But don't forget "cause and effect".)

[Rara]

I just felt like repeating this.

 

(But don't forget "cause and effect".)

 

Lol yes.

 

My brain feels like it's digesting an engine right now!

[Apech]

I just felt like repeating this.

 

(But don't forget "cause and effect".)

 

 

cause and effect = karma

[silent thunder]

To me, race is a separating, violent concept and is ingrained with built-in one-ups-manship and inferiority complex derivatives.

 

Karma is the generation of conditions through action/non-action in the now.

Conditions are the river of cause and effect in which our lives play out.

 

Of far more interest to me than what race I may be born into, I'm much more concerned about the nature of the family unit and the culture in which I'd find myself manifesting. Assuming of course, I'll be human, or even planetary.

[Rara]

cause and effect = karma

 

Noooooooooooooo *bangs head against wall*