A little on David and course costs

[Wayfarer64]

Darebak-

 

My first entry on these boards was an admonition to Ron J. that he should have his ass handed to him for the way he addressed people. I am a street-fighter and warrior on many levels I do not think of war as an abstract idea.

 

I understand what people who crave power over others are about. They come in many modes of being and types. They take advantage of people for their own advancement. That is all I have seen from the likes of Denty. I have known many like him, they will use every means at their disposal to coerce and cadjole and lure people into their self-serving webs. They find the group that wants what they can promote as theirs to give and then get what they can from the poor saps who buy into it.

 

Also, I do not think that the use of force or the threat there in/of is always out of bounds in our human interactions. It is the last resort always, but a needed recourse against the implacable. I admit that I can make enemies all too easily.

 

That many of us have been subjected to denty's BS and lies and general shilling of what he believes to be real, but in fact wastes our time, is a matter you don't get. You have bought into what he says. I see it as BS, empty promises and shilling.

 

Nothing I have seen on the foundation site has changed that. Selling words and methods of giving spiritual attainment or salvation is a scam.

 

We can only attain these things from within ourselves through the actions we choose and our practices and hard work. We can not buy them.

 

To hold out promises of secrets and methods of reaching what is ours-yes our very own- to begin with... is dispicable in the uttmost. The methods shown to glean power over us and lure us into this system should show us what to expect from this posse of spiritual posers. It is well researched and charmingly delivered by David Sham I am sure. But it is not his to sell. It is ours to discover for ourselves within ourselves.

 

Most of us here know that. We are on honest paths that lead towards the light of reason and better ways to be ourselves. That any scepticism from any of us towards what denty offers is met with such vitriolic rancor and personal attacks makes the point of itself. It is a bubble that he is desperate to protect from being pierced.

 

Yes I threaten retribution on those who attack me. And those who willfully try to harm those whom I can be of aid to. I feel that retribution has been accomplished by denty's own activities here. If you can still buy into his empty BS because you agree with what he has read and re-offered as his own truth then that should suffice for you to be happy. For myself I see it as regurjitation of ideas and facts with no heart no soul no honesty no originality no integrity and no humor though he claims to be sharing all of those attributes... ( for our benifit).

 

Learn to hear the ring of truth in what people say. It is there for us to hear. My warnings are just to be fair... I am easily provoked to violence when confronted with implacable dishonesty and what I see as the dangerous taking advantage of my fellow beings by greedy liars and con-men.

 

They are only offering to you what is yours already. You do not need them.

Edited May 11, 2007 by Wayfarer64

[Spectrum]

Often times adepts adopt various release valves for invaluable forms of communication/communion. It is not uncommon to find students of the various schools "acting out" in the form of martial or esoteric art because of the boundary provided by being "a student of the Art". It's important not to let emotional outlets get in the way of meditation. Emotions are closely related to the senses. Mental fixation / attachment on the outcome of any sensory engagement prevents the state of Sung from manifesting.

 

As the mind so shall be the body.

 

What

 

pace

 

are

 

you

 

sinking?

 

Engage, to neutralize and harmonize or cremate and be reborn. Personal boundaries defined is really asside ones self. Yes it's ego even to embody the perceptual proportions limit of ma; but its an ever widening event horizon cresting wave 100th monkey consciousness bringing barricades down around ideas claims that drown out dreams. Every time you crest and break it open and close it, leap high or stumble and fall the gathering tides wash the days destiny from your back. The circulation is the days, the water wheels pump, non-action & actions interactions w/ nonesense, move without moving, be still with movement, balance & store/absorb.

 

Tell it to another and gloat it, show it to another and lose it, only to find it on a journey to another land. Sow it and to Save it for later generations of yourself. We need about 300 years to live enough to get it, you need about 300 days to forget it, you need about 300 ways to physically express it, though the days way might say otherwise unworldly wisdom slips in sight unseen, seeming to be the seams of what we really dream as real.

 

 

 

Yet emotional engagement is not attachment. Transfiguring the arrangement isnt outside the engagement.

 

Like Bruce Lee said so nicely "Emotional Content; Not Anger!"

 

Intensity of movement is not violence. Responses to Violence need be Precise, no need for violence in kind.

 

Violence exists in a dimension outside of Conscious Movement. The ability to remain clear minded when single pointed consiousness is triggered spontaneously ensures a safe passage friends. Dont look into the water Frodo! Michi. Practice to fuse split mindedness. What is practice in something like Chan? Something like Taoism?

 

Break for a story:

 

'Of course, of course' said the unicorn, with good humor. It is a convention to call it "love". What word would you prefer?'

 

"Unicity", said the owl, 'not accurate - no word could be, in relativtity -- but that at least does not confuse the issue.'

 

'Certainly' said the unicorn, 'if you prefer "God is Unicity".

 

'I have no preferences' replied the owl 'but unicity makes sense at least.'

 

Indeed some sacred Scripture did say "The only proof of His existance is Union with Him" the unicorn agreed.

 

'An Upanishad, if I am not mistaken?' the owl suggested.

 

'No doubt, no doubt,' said the unicorn, 'or as a Christan sage put it "God is nearer to me than I am to myself".

 

'I am indeed,' the owl agreed.

 

------

 

To guide in act and action, word and deed, are the signs. The watercourse way never misleads, although subtle, she mysteriously guides her pilgrims progress. The dragons tail whiping where it will.

 

Better to be in Form then to flail aimlessly at Formless internet airespace.

 

Spectrum

Edited May 11, 2007 by Spectrum

[DentyDao]

You know after thinking about this, It's clear that Pat really knows how to push my buttons as well. His insults about my teacher from the beginning have really gotten the best of me, in the sense that I would like nothing more than to see him embarressed. Stupid I know.

 

Pat, you don't just insult me, but the 20 or so members of the foundation forum who will be training with David in Asia and Denmark this Summer, all of whom, or at least most, found David through my posts on this forum. I guess my point is they deserve better than your hate filled BS. Your insults also reach further to all of David's students and teachers, hundreds if not more. Your comments are ignorent and abusive.

 

You also insult David and his teachers who you know nothing about. Yes, my sarcastic humor is sometimes out of line, but your crap and this challenge to a dual are truly sick and I think you are sick person and dislike you as much or more as you do me.

 

I'm making a break here with the insults and will ignor your offensive, dumb ideas and continue to present David's work, letting it speak for itself and the truth of the matter be expressed by the many who will go and have their hopes and dreams confirmed as I have.

 

I just visited some of my very first posts on the topic and my posts only confirm this pattern. There were attacks and rude silly remarks from the begining and the people who have been drawn to David have been interested from the begining.

 

At some point I lost patience with you and I should know better.

Edited May 11, 2007 by seandenty

[Uncle Fester]

.

Edited September 19, 2021 by darebak

[spyrelx]

go spend time with your kids!! they love you!! we love you far, far less!! you mean the world to them!! but the world to you means posting on the internet!!

 

seriously - you claim this internet communication is unreal and yet all you do is sit in front of the screen... your kids need you, they wont be young for long... surely you must love your wife more than Pat! what the f#ck are you doing here?

 

you're addicted to this crap, and you're still reading the bull sh#t I've just written. STOP! take your kids to the playground or something... kiss your wife... at least drink a beer with a friend... if you're still reading this you're far less developed than I thought...

 

 

Good points. Sean's a mess. He's got this infantile need for attention, and he's obsessed with this place and being "controversial" and "provocative".

 

And we all feed into it. We all try to correct him, try to bring him toward maturity. He's basically a lot of bad energy and I haven't seen any evidence here that I or anyone else on this board can do anything else about it.

 

It's also wholly conceivable that half of what he says about himself, his history, his motives, david, etc. is complete fabrication. So you're not even interacting with anything real.

 

Time perhaps to just let him rant in a corner by himself.

Edited May 11, 2007 by spyrelx

[Leidee]

Perhaps we can all just stop trying to psycho-analyse each other's behaviour for a little bit?

 

It is impossible to get a full sense of a person or consider whether that person is emotionally, spiritually, mentally and physically sound from posts on a website. All anyone is doing is making a guess and such guesses are best left in the mind.

 

The other option is that we set up a topic where SeanD and Wayfarer can take their argument and not have it disrupt so many other topics.

 

L

[Lozen]

I'm with Leidee. I wish SeanO would either lock this thread or move it to the pit.

[DentyDao]

I'm with Leidee. I wish SeanO would either lock this thread or move it to the pit.

That would be fine. Really for my part I'm done with it. The whole thing is a waste of space, my part included. Just stupid pride on all sides.

 

Pat, spyrolex. Obviously we have strong differences. I don't think were are going to get anywhere with this and we just need to zip it and move on for the sake of the board

 

Sincerely, I do apologize for the sarcastic insults. It would have been much much better for all of to just let it go in the first place. We've all got bigger fish to fry here. Perhaps it would be better if none of us talks to each other as derek suggests.

 

Peace guys. Let's let sleeping dogs lie. Maybe in a few days we can just laugh at what a bunch og idiots we are

 

Time for a long meditation and a bath followed by a nice cigar. I still have 12 days of bachilorhood and need to make better use of my time. I'm going to take those twelve days to rest from the forum and give you guys your day.

Edited May 11, 2007 by seandenty

[Wayfarer64]

Well ladies I doubt if anyone is more tired of this than I am.

But this thread is about selling the trip/course that denty has been shilling for .

 

darebak-

 

you seem to be missing the point that I made. I threatened the fool to ground him.

denty as continualy insulted people and belittled any other sytem of thought than his own. Nothing anyone has tried worked to stop him behaving that way. I forced the issue and brought the situation down to one of warning him with a response that he would not like in order to get him to appologize and behave in a more useful manner. It worked for about an hour.

 

My whole point is that these things he and his teacher are claiming to offer only come from within ourselves. To try to sell them back to us is fooling those of us who are desperate to acchieve higher planes of consciousness. This thread is about the money. I am addressing the issue of truth in advertizing, shilling and the honesty integrity and honor of the shiller.

 

Each of us has our own path to find. That is the deal. What they offer is yours already, it can not be bought and sold. The realities of awakening our minds must be worked for and acchieved.

 

They are commoditizing the process, which I find repugnent. I will do what I can to undermine any such BS.

 

I am (too angerly) making my views on using peoples' spirtual needs to glean money from them.

 

I meant to insult everyone who would listen to this BS from denty, and have that reaction reflect on the whole situation.

If what is offered were real and being fairly offered without alterior motives none of this reactive BS between us could have accured. If it were real I would have been calmly laughed at and it would have gone no further.

 

The reaction proves the weakness inherent in the sytem being offered. The tactics used were desperate and I put no more values of evilness on them than I do any other willful and well-meaning fanatic.

 

I also disagree very strongly with the president of my country on most issues. I see him as mis-guided and dangerous. He sees himself as doing the work of godalmighty- whom he even claims to have conversations with.

 

When people say they have a direct channel to higher powers I get concerned for anyone who would listen to them. It is usually delusional. Until I see some evidence of anything but an effort to claim the higher ground such as an effective grasp of spirituality that looks like it may be real. I will call them on it. And expose them IF they are being false to the values that they claim. I have met people who are holy and they are different than most of us, they do profoundly change those people who get close to them in extraordinary ways. They do not allow themselves to be pimped out by fools.

 

You should have noticed that when denty took my warnings seriously he became another person altogether in his attitude. He changed to adapt and an hour later reverted to type.

This is the only person I have had any interaction with that claims to be behaving as a result of the teaching he has recieved and that he is now pimping to us on this thread.

 

As someone else noted denty is a mess. Is this not warning enough? I have no need nor wish to become involved in this thread as I have been. But I will be who I am at all times. Not change my personality to keep a false reality choogling along.

 

If I insulted people who believe in this system being touted on this thread that is a bi-product of my reaction to the salesmanship they have allowed to represent them here. Its like feeling sorry for Chuck Heston when Michael Moore asked him to appologize to the people of Columbine for going to their town a few days after the school shootings there -in order to promote the NRA and not blame guns for the tragedy. He set himself up as a shill for the NRA, they are selling a dangerous product. Many people found that abhorant.

Even long time NRA members were aghast at him doing such a thing.

 

I have been PM'd by a couple of Bums who are looking into DSV's system and I wished them well. I do hope it is really helpful for them. They said that they could get past denty and try to learn from DSV -I find that to be gullible. If there were other bums who had been involved and related to us in a meaningful and semi-sane manner I would not have these doubts, nor need to express them.

[Lozen]

[DentyDao]

Hey, I just got a pretty sincere PM from Pat,

 

Let's se if we can clear the air before bed here. Here's what I wrote back:

 

Pat, I think we have both over reacted. Let's stop. I will leave you be and the whole thing is regretable. We are better than this BS, Both of us. And I think once the testonsterone is out of our blood streams we could actually have a civil discussion without the retoric on both sides.

 

I'm an imperfect man, but I'm not an evil person. I do see peoples points, but I also like to challenge, I think it's healthy. Let's find a better way. I will be less abrasive and stop assuming and perhaps you can meet me half way.

 

What do you say? Maybe we could really surprise people and do something really funny to blow peoples mind's a bit and clear the air. I can start calling David a gerk and you can say you've signed up for his course Now that would throw people for a loop, ay.

 

Anyway, Your point about the Tao being from the heart and available to everyone of us is the one thing I definitly agree with here. David is a good man.

[sean]

OMG! Has someone invoked reference to ... the pit?! *sudden thunder and lightning* It's been years since we've resorted to such grave measures! Only God knows what horrors occur there.

 

 

Really, Leidee is so right. We are only getting a tiny sliver of information about each other in this context to form our impressions. Furthermore, I truly believe that what we notice and continually emphasize in each other we actually help to activate.

 

In this spirit I propose a group exercise!

 

Three nice things!

 

I think we have an opportunity here to turn this around, at least ever so slightly. Looks like SeanD and Wayfarer64 are already on their way. Even if it's just a tiny ripple in a better direction, let's do it.

 

In any case, this thread is now getting the "100% positivity or else" smackdown. I am going to either lock this thread or move it to the pit if there is there is anything but 100% positive regard written in this thread from here on out. This thread already has enough garbage in it, it's starting to smell up other rooms.

 

Sean

[Pero]

This thread already has enough garbage in it, it's starting to smell up other rooms.

 

Sean

 

LOL, indeed...

Harry`s reminder on "what you resist persists" was quite right. I wanted to post a few times here, but always changed my mind, since I wasn`t sure of my motivations...

So, I`ll just leave a quote.

 

"There is no vice like hatred, and there is no austerity like patience. Therefore, one should earnestly cultivate patience in various ways."

 

Something more to read:

Perfection of Patience

[freeform]

Time for a long meditation and a bath followed by a nice cigar. I still have 12 days of bachilorhood and need to make better use of my time. I'm going to take those twelve days to rest from the forum and give you guys your day.

 

you know what - when I wrote my post about getting back into the real world, I felt I was indirectly reffering to myself as well as the others reading this thread... I think you're really lucky, Denty - seriously - you have kids, a wife, a job, a teacher and access to authentic taoist masters... you thought I said 'get a life' but I meant that you already have a life and a good one at that, but posting on these boards might be distracting you from these.

 

I think the quote above is a great idea. enjoy!

[Wayfarer64]

Attention all (cosmic)-shoppers!

 

Peace has sprung out in cyber-space today.

 

Behind the scenes PM's have settled the differences between our two loud-mouthed(typists) and fellow Bums who have shown themselves to be two most annoying adversaries.

 

They will try once again for a pax between them.

__________________________________________________________________________________________!!

 

For my part hence-forth...

 

I shall respond to any personal BS on these threads via PM only... when ever possible, and not waste the time of you'se guys...

 

Sorry to deprive the many of you who have spectated this thread so religiously... The hit count amazes me...

 

And that is the oddest thing about this slam-fest -just how popular a thread it has been... Like TV ratings the drama got the eyes...- What is wrong with that picture? Maybe the issue of what we want from these threads should be asked.

None of us could stop ourselves at some point. As annoying to all of us as it was; it fed on itself. I hope that that in itself shows us something about the strength of our all too animalistic natures, when our higher selves can be swept aside when the animal is threatened.

It may be we can each learn from that. Beware -The power of the dark-side... as it were.

 

If indeed we can look at what happened here and learn from it then we can go forward a little wiser.

[thelerner]

Here's my happy quote of the day:

 

In this world there are only Lovers and Teachers

Only that

anything else

is due

to limited understanding.

 

Michael

[gendao]

Is it possible to separate practice from personality conflicts?

 

I think the former quickly became a convenient proxy to hash out underlying disputes about the latter.

 

That's fine, maybe it was even therapeutic and sorely needed!

 

But, there's no need to confuse apples with oranges, then.

 

In short: Don't claim to be debating apples when you are really debating oranges.

 

This thread really could have been split up into 2:

1) Debating the LSD practice and protocol itself.

2) Airing out personal gripes between various posters in this thread.

 

Anyhow, I guess real life tends to get messier than that...but I'm glad people were able to get some stuff off their chests and reach some sort of conciliation in the end.

 

And hey, let's be honest - who doesn't love watching a trainwreck? Certainly not the >4000 views this flame war got!

Edited May 11, 2007 by vortex

[Pietro]

In any case, this thread is now getting the "100% positivity or else" smackdown. I am going to either lock this thread or move it to the pit if there is there is anything but 100% positive regard written in this thread from here on out. This thread already has enough garbage in it, it's starting to smell up other rooms.

 

Sean

 

Can we move this thread to the pit while keeping it open.

It would be nice toward Ron to show that he is not the only there.

If the old taobum.com was alive I would have invited all to bring it on there.

 

Pietro

[Wayfarer64]

all ya need is love...