A little on David and course costs

[Smile]

The idea that this description would be misused is pretty plausible. I'm sure there will be a few lost souls who hold on to this description regardless of what anybody says on the matter.

I was practicing this meditation all day today and now have a foamy urine. What do I do?

 

Seriously, I didn't realize how much you guys like drama and fighting.

Vortex, you are cool - I really like your posts.

But for the most of all, all of you guys are right with your descriptions of what the other people are. And that's why this thread have been so entertaining. I was trying get Plato to bring in a fresh breath of rudeness, but he was probably confused by someone trying to rape him when he "accidentally" droped a bar of soap in NY Sports Club, or his girfriend was giving him a blowjob in a local bar's bathroom and he still can't get over the fact he screamed "Brian!" in a moment of passion.

Either way, thanks everyone. Except for Cameron. He is still gay.

[Cameron]

If anyone is questioning if they are gay..

 

link

 

I passed on everything except that I like Coldplay. I can't lie they are awesome!

[DentyDao]

SHIT!!!

 

PAT, STOP WATCHING ME. I KNOW YOU ARE THERE. The watcher... he he he. Ignor list my ass.

 

This ignor list thing is the funniest thing ever. 'Your on my ignor list, but I am keeping a close eye on you.'

 

But for the most of all, all of you guys are right with your descriptions of what the other people are. And that's why this thread have been so entertaining.

 

Neutral bastard. Cameron here is your chance to unleash your fury.

Edited May 9, 2007 by seandenty

[Cameron]

hehe..I can't unleash on Max, he won't buy me dinner and a movie next time I see him in NY

 

*kidding*

 

Ime not much for internet verbal assault much more of an in person kind of guy.

 

I'll make sure to throw someone extra hard in Aikido tomorrow if it makes you feel better Sean

[DentyDao]

Ah well. Hey Pat, have a good night. Go sell that art so you can go to China

[Wayfarer64]

No Denty, I have had it with you. I concider these interactions as face to face on some levels. You have provoked me and I am serious. I am generally proud of my enemies. You would not be much of one. But If I ever do meet you I can guarantee you that you will be shitting yourself within five minutes. And I doubt I will even have to touch you. You are not above your actions and niether am I. We are what we do, and what we say. You have gone too far. You act as if you want a fight and then back off with more BS. Rest assured I hope to meet you one day. I advise an appology is offered to me before then.

 

I repeat - you may not insult me as you have been and not provoke my animosity. This is real. It is no threat. It is my reality. I concider your language a verbal attack on me and a challange to my martial arts lineage. I advise you to stop your provocations, as there will be a reply that you will not enjoy.

 

I think you are a liar, a shill, and a coward. Pimp is too cool a name for you. You have no street cred, fool. Do you really think that you can get away with such arrogance on a Taoist site, belittling Shaolin traditions?

 

I think that David Sham has to be a fool to allow you to represent him anywhere, in any fashion. My training is no game. There are no parlor tricks. We have a tradition of projecting qi with some affectiveness.

 

My Tradition of developing qi is martial. I do not seek anything but an apology from you. Get it done.

 

I am willing to see if Sham can protect himself from my Kung Fu and zap me with his magic crap. I do not take this shit lightly Denty, believe it punk. If you want to start something with real practitioners of ancient martial traditions, you are a fool many times over. Stop provoking people here. Period.

 

Come to what little senses you may have and appologize as if you were a man and then begin again trying to behave as one should on a public forum that has many points of view.

 

I do not concider the people on these threads to be expendable cartoons in some cyber void. These are real people who you have attacked as if there was no reality attached. I can change your mind about that.

This is real. You have provoked me and I am not going away just because you now want me to. I will only if and when you appologize. Otherwise I will continue to call you on your empty lies and general BS everytime I feel like it.

 

I have commended your erudition. Book learning is a nice thing to have, but you exhibit nothing but empty knowledge.NOTHING.

 

We all derserve this appology from you. I require it. You have insulted Shaolin tradition, I will defend it at every level.

Now wise up boy.

 

Learn not to step on a tigers' tail. I am no seeker of enlightenment at the cost of my inner animal nature. For me it is a complete package - Five animals are part of that package. You seem to want to provoke the snake in me. You do not really want to meet my snake, he plucks eyes. My tiger breaks bones. The dragon creates internal bleeding. Why do you insist on pissing us off? Are you really that stupid? Do you not understand martial tradition? You may not call me out and then act as if it means nothing. In my tradition it means something. It means you want me to be your enemy. If you do not want to be my enemy appologize.

Simple and direct.

[DentyDao]

No Denty, I have had it with you. I concider these interactions as face to face on some levels. You have provoked me and I am serious. I am generally proud of my enemies. You would not be much of one. But If I ever do meet you I can guarantee you that you will be shitting yourself within five minutes. And I doubt I will even have to touch you. You are not above your actions and niether am I. We are what we do, and what we say. You have gone too far. You act as if you want a fight and then back off with more BS. Rest assured I hope to meet you one day. I advise an appology is offered to me before then.

 

Pat I have to warn you, I am skilled in the art of fart-jitsu. You really wouldn't stand a chance.

 

 

The only one who provoked you is you. This sadly, is your undoing.

Edited May 9, 2007 by seandenty

[DentyDao]

No Denty, I have had it with you. I concider these interactions as face to face on some levels. You have provoked me and I am serious. I am generally proud of my enemies. You would not be much of one. But If I ever do meet you I can guarantee you that you will be shitting yourself within five minutes. And I doubt I will even have to touch you. You are not above your actions and niether am I. We are what we do, and what we say. You have gone too far. You act as if you want a fight and then back off with more BS. Rest assured I hope to meet you one day. I advise an appology is offered to me before then.

 

I repeat - you may not insult me as you have been and not provoke my animosity. This is real. It is no threat. It is my reality. I concider your language a verbal attack on me and a challange to my martial arts lineage. I advise you to stop your provocations, as there will be a reply that you will not enjoy.

 

I think you are a liar, a shill, and a coward. Pimp is too cool a name for you. You have no street cred, fool. Do you really think that you can get away with such arrogance on a Taoist site, belittling Shaolin traditions?

 

I think that David Sham has to be a fool to allow you to represent him anywhere, in any fashion. My training is no game. There are no parlor tricks. We have a tradition of projecting qi with some affectiveness.

 

My Tradition of developing qi is martial. I do not seek anything but an apology from you. Get it done.

 

I am willing to see if Sham can protect himself from my Kung Fu and zap me with his magic crap. I do not take this shit lightly Denty, believe it punk. If you want to start something with real practitioners of ancient martial traditions, you are a fool many times over. Stop provoking people here. Period.

 

Come to what little senses you may have and appologize as if you were a man and then begin again trying to behave as one should on a public forum that has many points of view.

 

I do not concider the people on these threads to be expendable cartoons in some cyber void. These are real people who you have attacked as if there was no reality attached. I can change your mind about that.

This is real. You have provoked me and I am not going away just because you now want me to. I will only if and when you appologize. Otherwise I will continue to call you on your empty lies and general BS everytime I feel like it.

 

I have commended your erudition. Book learning is a nice thing to have, but you exhibit nothing but empty knowledge.NOTHING.

 

We all derserve this appology from you. I require it. You have insulted Shaolin tradition, I will defend it at every level.

Now wise up boy.

 

Learn not to step on a tigers' tail. I am no seeker of enlightenment at the cost of my inner animal nature. For me it is a complete package - Five animals are part of that package. You seem to want to provoke the snake in me. You do not really want to meet my snake, he plucks eyes. My tiger breaks bones. The dragon creates internal bleeding. Why do you insist on pissing us off? Are you really that stupid? Do you not understand martial tradition? You may not call me out and then act as if it means nothing. In my tradition it means something. It means you want me to be your enemy. If you do not want to be my enemy appologize.

Simple and direct.

 

As I sit here waiting for your reply, it occurs to me that this little incident could very well be just the serious break through you need to motivate you to do something meaningful with your life. I happy to facilitate this rather embaressing (for you) moment. Anyway, please continue, I will respond in between grading my students school work.

Edited May 9, 2007 by seandenty

[spyrelx]

As I sit here waiting for your reply, it occurs to me that this little incident could very well be just the serious break through you need to motivate you to do something meaningful with your life. I happy to facilitate this rather embaressing (for you) moment. Anyway, please continue, I will respond in between grading my students school work.

 

 

Sean,

 

I think you should take the guy seriously. I think you've crossed the line with him many times, and should make amends.

 

You can cop the attitude that it doesn't matter if you shit all over people in cybyerspace, that you don't have to respect anyone's version of propriety. Just like I can cop the attitude that it doesn't matter if I take David's teachings and distribute them all over cyberspace, that I don't have to respect his version of propriety. But both actions would be just what they sound like, a lack of respect for a fellow human being.

 

I think you should apologize and make amends. Maybe nothing will come of this. But if he hurts you I think it's wholly of your own making.

[DentyDao]

[DentyDao]

Sean,

 

I think you should take the guy seriously. I think you've crossed the line with him many times, and should make amends.

 

You can cop the attitude that it doesn't matter if you shit all over people in cybyerspace, that you don't have to respect anyone's version of propriety. Just like I can cop the attitude that it doesn't matter if I take David's teachings and distribute them all over cyberspace, that I don't have to respect his version of propriety. But both actions would be just what they sound like, a lack of respect for a fellow human being.

 

I think you should apologize and make amends. Maybe nothing will come of this. But if he hurts you I think it's wholly of your own making.

 

Hi Spyrodork,

 

I'm sure you have your own fantasy about what Pat would do to me if I don't apologize. What I would like to know is what exactly did I do to warrent a death threat. Sorry, but once again you demonstrate a lack of any real ability to think clearly. All I have done is respond to his dumb insults with a dumb insult.

 

Actually I do take his threat seriously; what Pat said is against the law and I have made copies of his threat in the event that Pat decides to foolishly act out his words. Infortunitly ther will be no way fro Pat to save face here.

 

It's lesson he needs dearly. If people here want disregard David's wishes about the description of the practice, I will be disapointed but I would never threaten anyone, it's just not smart.

[Lozen]

*yawn*

 

this argument is so boring

 

[DentyDao]

Just received David's thoughts on the matter of the practice revealed and Pietro's actions. David is always very telling about such matters and about people like Pietro who have, of course, a troubled history with David.

 

David related the whole story of his very limited relationship with Pietro. I will not repeat such embarressing details here. Definity Pietro has a motive to black mail David in this funny little charade. I will leave the rest to imagination out of respect for Peitro's reputation and emotional health.

 

David did write him and requested that the material be taken down and we shall see if he will make good on his promise.

 

As for Vidiami, David "understands that his actions are faultless and just asked that he contact Peitro to also request him to remove the description. Since Vidiami created the mess, he should have a part in cleaning it up." David sometimes tests his students, while he said it's up to Vidiami, if Vidiami values his relationship with David, it would be a nice gesture; that's just my feeling.

 

Sean

 

 

 

David's letter:

 

"Dear Sean

I wrote to Pietro so to cut the head of the problem directly.

 

this is the letter in italian

 

Pietro

sono anni che non ci sentiamo, mi spiace che debba essere a causa dell'incidente della lettera sul forum, un paio di amici mi hanno scritto in proposito, ti pregherei di cancellare le copie che hai fatto e altre note e referenze all'argomento, in rispetto di privacy e della volonta' dei maestri in proposito.

Una descrizione cosi' generale di un esercizio non puo' far altro che generare piu' confusione e gossips. D'altronde qualunque pratica se descritta a livello generale potrebbe essera asscociata a qualunque altra ed invece non e' decisamente il caso, ti pregherei di evitare di suggerire altrimenti.

 

grazie mille a buona fortuna

David

 

English version:

 

Pietro

Many years passed since we last communicated, it is regrettable that the reason is an "accident" cause by a forum letter.

A couple of friends wrote me in regard, please erase the copies and paste you made and also references and notes on the topic so to repect privacy and the masters will.

Such a general description of a practice will only create confusion and gossips, in fact any practic if described in such general terms can potentially be associated to any other, this is not definetly the case, please do not suggest it is so.

 

thanks a lot and good luck

David"

 

 

 

*yawn*

 

this argument is so boring

 

 

Indeed, way past my bed time. This fat happy lad is going to beddy by. Sorry Pat it's 10pm here time for all good little punks to dream of cotton candy and lemon drops. I suggest you do the same. Things may look different in the morning.

[Wayfarer64]

Denty-

You are a vapid liar and a fool Denty. You have tried very hard to provoke me because I have shown you to be a liar and a fool. From the start I have called you on your lies and bull shit. If you choose to believe that I have threatened you then add that to your other misconceptions -I have warned you that in life there are consiquences to ones provocations. Wise up fool. You are selling to a crowd that has now seen through you-that a few lost seekers are buying into your sale of snake oil is sad for them - the money would be better spent on charity work.

 

I have taken on Guliani and he backed down . The high lords of Latin Kings had a hit out on me -I am still here they are in jail, the KKK left me for dead in'83. Still here. I have fought real fights against lies and liars all my life. You are a fraud representing a fraud. You have shown us nothing but empty book- learning smoke and broken mirrors trying to sell your mentors' lies and empty promises.

 

At this time my activities for tenants rights has brought one of the states' highest profile law firms in to represent the largest landlord in the Nation-AIMCO, my landlord- this in an effort to evict me and "undo" me - many have tried -least of all you punk... liars are a dime a dozen and that is all you are - well read perhaps but nothing but a fraud.

 

You have shown us nothing but an arrogant disregard for the practices of any other traditions - this is foolish.

We know better now than to listen to your smug lies and snake oil salesmanship. So -run along boy - your greatest accomplishment in life may be provoking me. At least you have made an enemy worthy of the name -As I concider you as a faximily of a man- you are not worthy to be my enemy pipsqueek- you are pure bull shit wrapped in erudition and smug arrogance. No more

[Leidee]

I'm with Lozen on this.

 

SeanD and Wayfarer - Just let it go, both of you.

 

I don't know why it is so hard to just accept that you don't like each other and/or don't communicate well with each other and just let it be. We don't all have to enjoy each other's company. I am getting frustrated to keep seeing this cycle repeat itself over again with no resolution.

 

All I am saying

 

Is give peace a chance

 

Or, if not peace...

 

SHUT UP ALREADY! Which, if nothing else, would be peaceful!

 

[Pietro]

Pietro

sono anni che non ci sentiamo, mi spiace che debba essere a causa dell'incidente della lettera sul forum, un paio di amici mi hanno scritto in proposito, ti pregherei di cancellare le copie che hai fatto e altre note e referenze all'argomento, in rispetto di privacy e della volonta' dei maestri in proposito.

Una descrizione cosi' generale di un esercizio non puo' far altro che generare piu' confusione e gossips. D'altronde qualunque pratica se descritta a livello generale potrebbe essera asscociata a qualunque altra ed invece non e' decisamente il caso, ti pregherei di evitare di suggerire altrimenti.

 

grazie mille a buona fortuna

David

Post deleted.

(I actually read this mail later, when I already had deleted the post after receiving Vidiami's message).

 

Best of luck to all of you,

Pietro

 

Just received David's thoughts on the matter of the practice revealed and Pietro's actions. David is always very telling about such matters and about people like Pietro who have, of course, a troubled history with David.

 

David related the whole story of his very limited relationship with Pietro. I will not repeat such embarressing details here. Definity Pietro has a motive to black mail David in this funny little charade.

 

 

Pietro has a motive to black mail David?

 

Uh?

[Wayfarer64]

Pietro has a motive to black mail David?

 

Uh?

 

Interesting..

Is there some knowledge David S and Sean D have of knowledge - that would be dangerous for David, that Pietro doesn't seem to remember? oooh- more mystery and hidden agendas...or just another opportunity to sell tickets to the snake-oil show?.

Black-mail can only work if there is somethng to hide.

 

It is pretty obvious that David has poor judgement - just by his setting Denty up as his mouth-piece. It shows a clear lack of ability to see what a person's correct path may be. Why would anyone trust a teacher who makes such a choice?

This is his own face to the cyber-world and he chooses an arrogant, ignorant shill. Even if there was some truth to David's abilities who could believe it when promoted thusly...

 

Buyer beware. If black-mail is a real, and self-admitted - threat, then there is something to hide.

 

Pietro -do you remember such a thing? Or is it just that the whole set-up leads nowhere?

[thaddeus]

I was practicing this meditation all day today and now have a foamy urine. What do I do?

Hilarious!!

I'm still practicing it, I'll be ready to report results in a week or so.

But I found that maca powder (sans frog) plus fish oil, really enhances the meditation, so I added that part.

T

[Wayfarer64]

Liedee and Lozen-

 

I am sorry that you think this is a personal macho-duel. It is not so for me. I see Denty as someone who is trying to sell something that he is promoting in a very dangerous way. If what he offers were really available through master to student transmissions it could not be sold nor offered for sale at any price. To do so puts the lie to the process from the get-go.

 

This is about respect for lineage and ability to show something real- not just promises of magic tricks and pie in the sky ideas of immortality that can not in truth, ever be offered for sale.

 

One does not gain anything of true spiritual value through the buying of it. This was so in Martin Luther's day when he liberated Germany from the tyrany of the Roman Church's selling indulgences. It is true today for seekers of eastern- born knowledge and abilities...

 

This is not as personal as it may seem written here in cyber-space . For me it is about truth and lies. I read lies and challenge them. Someone calls me names and disparages my traditions, family, person and whatever else he can imagine to make it personal .

 

This takes the burden of proof off of the original statements and attitudes and lies that were challanged. I respond as my tradition dictates and things escalate...-taking the focus away from the original lies and sale of snake-oil.

 

You are right in being annoyed at the tone and the rancor - but the subject at hand is not our personalities but the truth in what we are expressing here.

 

Anyone selling immortality is not to be trusted, they could not be trusted when other cults and religions offered it under different names, and never should be trusted. It is an ancient evil and needs to be brought to light when ever it raises its ugly little head.

 

You can not buy and sell immortality. Period.

 

Anyone offering such a thing is below contempt, because the search for this possible human experience is precious and many souls have lived very hard lives to help others find the peace of mind that such knowledge of eternal being represents. There are MANY paths to it, never just one, and to sell one as such is a dispicable notion and a travesty.

 

In fact we each have a path that makes such knowledge possible. Internal / eternal peace of mind IS available to everyone of us. Most here sense that. To prey on those who would seek such knowledge with empty promises for lots of money is nothing new.

But sticking one of these silly happy faces on the sale of such does not make it right, nor real. -

Namaste- PDG

[vidiami]

Pheeeeeww! This has been an interesting experience, an experience which I would NOT like to have again ...

 

I would like to thank both Vortex and Pietro for removing my infamous description. I am most grateful!

 

I've contacted David personally and made an apology for my inappropriate post, and the apology has been accepted. I hope the matter has been resolved once and for all now. Again, I'm sorry.

 

It was simply poor judgement on my part to think it would be ok to write what I did. I crossed the line and I regret doing so.

 

I started this thread to resolve the cost issues. Michael Winn wrote a post which says it would cost $7500 for a 2-3 course with David in Denmark. If these figures weren't accurate then someone should definetely make people aware of that fact as I'm sure Michael has his share of followers who will take his word for it as the truth of the matter. For info on course costs in Denmark, please read Sean D's post on the matter.

 

Whenever people attack an idea they actually make it stronger and whatever you strengthen you will keep. This discussion has been blown out of proportions and could have been resolved much swifter and with far less attention without the public insults and such. Of that I'm sure. I also did not appreciate the fact that my private conversation was posted on this forum and used in the heated debate. What is private should be kept private.

 

I would still encourage anyone who is interested in studying with David to go for it. I thoroughly loved the course I took and would recommend a thousand times over to study with David.

 

So - be at peace now. I'll now return to writing my essay on the differencies between ASP.Net and Servlets/JSP. I would have been happier if I had done so in the first place. Never run from your assignments!

 

(Also: Zhineng's Xing Shen Zhuang is not the same as given by David or Prof. Wang even though the movements are mostly similar.)

 

Sincerely,

Vidiami

Edited May 10, 2007 by vidiami

[DentyDao]

My reply is simple. Pat has never met David or his teachers and knows nothing of our tradition. He just doesn't like me. This was as clear to me from his very first post as it is today and it's why I can't take it seriously.

 

Tobias (Vidiami), my suggestion, if you don't like your privacy voilated, be a little more mindful. Lesson learned. My best to you.

 

As for the 'black mail' David's words not mine. What Pietro did was a power play. Plan and simple really and not the first such behavior from him toward David. Makes sense to me.

Edited May 9, 2007 by seandenty

[Wayfarer64]

My reply is simple. Pat has never met David or his teachers and knows nothing of our tradition. He just doesn't like me. This was as clear to me from his very first post as it is today and it's why I can't take it seriously.

 

Tobias (Vidiami), my suggestion, if you don't like your privacy voilated, be a little more mindful. Lesson learned. My best to you.

 

As for the 'black mail' David's words not mine. What Pietro did was a power play. Plan and simple really and not the first such behavior from him toward David. Makes sense to me.

 

Wrong again as usual, Denty.

Our interaction began with a question I had about your statements concerning the oneness of all Buddhist practice being essentially one united way. I disagreed and in what I later found to be your typical response mechanism you attacked me personally, as to my level of knowledge etc...

 

You are the one who makes the arguments personal in weak-minded efforts to change the subject when you are called on lies and mis-information.

 

I have only annoyance at you and believe that you are wrong about many things that you state as fact.

Personally -nothing you are nothing but a narrow-minded fool who I have no more patience for. If you challange me as to the validity of my traditions it is within my tradition to take these slurs as asking for a fight, as it is in many cultures around the world. I have never backed down from a fight about truth as I see it. You have done this several times,so I do assume you want me to prove that I can project my qi into you and make you believe that what I know is real. That is my tradition at these levels of claims of internal power.

So I see you as a liar and a coward with arrogance that can not be backed up with anything more than fart-jokes. Your lack of seriousness about the reality of our interactions is very foolish.

 

That you promolgate a system that promises the gain of important human attributes for large sums of money is the issue.

You are lieing if you claim to be able to sell immortality.

 

If David says he feels as if is being black-mailed my point is made -He has something to hide. Power- play !? As if the powers David claims can be threatened, if he had them they could not be threatened.

 

This is not personal until you attack on a personal level. You have done this with me, many others - and not taken my response seriously.

 

So far you have only shown yourself to be a very silly- as in not to be taken seriously -sort of book-worm.

I have let you know what I expect of you boy. You have made this personal as you usually do with most here. I am letting you know , with fair warning that you have gone too far with me.

 

That you, and yr ilk choose to play around with important human attributes that take many years to achieve and then try to sell them for huge profit... will of itself give you yr come-upence -I do not think I will be the vehicle for that come-upence ...but it could be.

 

You are a shill for the corruption of what should remain sacred. And you have the nerve to do this with arrogance, rudeness and ignorant lies. I will always appose such miscreant behaviors.

 

It is nothing personal Denty - I oppose what you say, and do and how you do it, true... BUT it is the content of your BS more than anything else that I challange - as have several others here - these issues you never address-you make it personal as if it were so. It is not. It is the content of your schpiel that I question. You NEVER answer any of us in an honest way when your posted beliefs are questioned.

 

Any thinking person will understand you to be false in your stated beliefs if you need to avoid answering simple questions as to their validity.

You have made this personal and then refused to face the fact that you have created an enemy. That is foolish sonny boy ...I will stay on yr lame ass as long as I breath to expose the BS you are trying to sell a needful community of seekers.

 

And yes, once that kind of money is spent most people will claim rewards -just not to appear foolish to others. its a pretty good racket Denty. I just hope there is at least one honest practitioner that goes to yr shangrala and lets us know the truth of it. It would in fact make me much happier to be wrong than right in this.

People need good teachers, it is very hard to believe that you represent one , much less are one.

You have no ability to get personal with me. You have not been allowed in the door.

[DentyDao]

Thanks for clearing that up Pat. Best of luck.

[Wayfarer64]

Denty- That was not an appology. Fool. This is not over til I say it is over. You have called me out as to the value my traditions and knowledge. I have told you I expect an appology or an acceptance of my challange. Which is it boy?

[DentyDao]

Up to you. Do what you will:)

Edited May 9, 2007 by seandenty