Christian Mysticism

[Apech]

Since there is no other place for it on the board and because there is a branch of Hermetics which could be called 'Christian Hermetics' or 'Christian Mysticism' (Pico de Mirandola et al) I am starting this thread to discuss this tradition.

 

I am conscious that because this board is so US centric that we suffer from the the Christian right and the reaction to that which tries to rubbish anything which is Christian. I'm not interested in these arguments and please keep them away from this thread. As Steward of the Hermetic Sub I will be hiding and/or splitting off any attempt to steer discussion towards particular debate which gets a good airing elsewhere.

 

What I want to discuss is not mainstream Catholic, Protestant or Eastern Orthodox Christianity but the inner tradition of a mystical path within Christianity as expressed for instance in the Grail legends.

 

The reason I think it is important and interesting is because I think Christ can be seen as heir to an old lineage which I call the 'Lineage of the Wounded or Sacrificed King' and that the life of Christ embodied, not just the Hebraic Messianic theme but also the theme of Osiris and the core teachings of the ancient pagan world.

 

So for those that are interested let us begin.

 

[Zhongyongdaoist]

I applaud your initiative Apech. Good old Basil Wilby, who as you know wrote under the name Gareth Knight wisely said, somewhere, that Occultists compare childhood impressions of Christianity with adult impressions of Buddhism.

 

There is a great deal of interest even in orthodox opinion. The British occultists of the last century, I am thinking of some statements of Dion Fortune in particular, might have benefited from a closer examination of Roman Catholic doctrine of the Eucharist, it is staggeringly more profound than the Anglican one which they used for their Christian mysticism, and something which any alchemist, internal or external, might wish to contemplate, but like many Scholastic formulations a little understanding of Aristotle goes a long way to appreciating it.

 

It will be interesting to see what happens here. I hope that our happy friend 'Protector', who seems to been chomping at the bit to say something nice about Christian mysticism, will do so, from what I gather would be a Russian Orthodox perspective.

 

In so far as I am allowed by time and circumstance, I will try to add something here and there.

[Jeff]

...

There is a great deal of interest even in orthodox opinion. The British occultists of the last century, I am thinking of some statements of Dion Fortune in particular, might have benefited from a closer examination of Roman Catholic doctrine of the Eucharist, it is staggeringly more profound than the Anglican one which they used for their Christian mysticism, and something which any alchemist, internal or external, might wish to contemplate, but like many Scholastic formulations a little understanding of Aristotle goes a long way to appreciating it.

...

 

I would agree. True Communion is incredibly profound and deep practice.

[Apech]

I applaud your initiative Apech. Good old Basil Wilby, who as you know wrote under the name Gareth Knight wisely said, somewhere, that Occultists compare childhood impressions of Christianity with adult impressions of Buddhism.

 

<....>

 

 

Thank you Donald and I hope you will be contributing. That's an interesting quote and I think it reflects that no matter what it is hard to shake the culture into which you are born. I know some Buddhists who seem to me very Catholic and others who are definitely Church of England. the other thing I note is the use of Buddhism to kind of reinvent Christianity or perhaps rediscover perhaps. I think this is because often Buddhism states directly what Christianity says through parable ... in other words you have to do a lot hermeneutics to get at some plain truths from Christianity.

[Jeff]

Since there is no other place for it on the board and because there is a branch of Hermetics which could be called 'Christian Hermetics' or 'Christian Mysticism' (Pico de Mirandola et al) I am starting this thread to discuss this tradition.

...

So for those that are interested let us begin.

 

Why don't you start us off?

[Apech]

I would agree. True Communion is incredibly profound and deep practice.

 

 

Undoubtedly true Jeff and perhaps we could start be discussing what communion truly signifies in a mystical (or cultivation) sense ... but I am slightly scared you are going to go all Dzogchen on me

Edited August 19, 2013 by Apech

[Seth Ananda]

Let thine eye be single and thine whole body shall be filled with light...

 

Seek ye first the kingdom of heaven and all things shall be added unto thee...

 

Two of my favourite quotes.

 

Thanks for this thread by the way

[rene]

Apech, thanks for this thread. I've hungered to see something like this for a long time.

 

I would agree. True Communion is incredibly profound and deep practice.

 

And it is not generally available. Speaking as Canadian/Yank - though the perception of here is of being "Christian right", take comfort that for most people... involvement is for socialization reasons only. Those who don't attend, choose that because there was too much depth for them, or in my case, not enough. I look forward to reading what you (all) share on this subject. I have nothing to offer but deep interest and respect. You may hide this post if you wish. (-:

 

warm regards

[RiverSnake]

Kyriacos Markides, the author of the Magus of Strovolos does some digging into esoteric Christianity: http://www.amazon.com/The-Mountain-Silence-Orthodox-Spirituality/dp/0385500920/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

 

My 2 cents, Peace

[Jeff]

Undoubtedly true Jeff and perhaps we could start be discussing what communion truly signifies in a mystical (or cultivation) sense ... but I am slightly scared you are going to go all Dzogchen on me

 

Hi Apech,

 

I will do my best to stay away from Dzogchen comparisons and try to stay focused on the Primordial path presented by Jesus as the High Priest of the Order of Melchizedek...

 

Best,

Jeff

Edited August 19, 2013 by Jeff

[Apech]

26 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.”

27 Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28 This is my blood of the[a] covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29 I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.”

30 When they had sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.

 

Just to kick off .... what's it all about?

[Jeff]

Just to kick off .... what's it all about?

 

The words are describing in symbolic terms the meaning of true communion. Jesus is describing an advanced form of light transmission (or shared oneness/presence), similar to guru/divinity yoga. Historically, there have been two main different types of transmission. First, earth or Mother energy often called Shakipat (leading to Kundalini). And second, sharing of presence (or knowledge) which momentarily create a state of "clarity of mind".

 

In communion, the "body" represent body/mother energy or "Kundalini". The "blood" represents spirit energy or "state of knowledge". In Christian terms, the state of knowledge is often also called "the peace that passes all human understanding". Bringing together both components greatly accelerates overall human development because you have the "kundalini" force pushing ongoing "clarity" rapidly forward, while the guru/master provides an ongoing "sharing" of peace (mental clarity) to help protect from the normal issues that can come from kundalini. This shared clarity or peace is also why many Christian's will describe a "top down" rather than a "bottom up" feeling to energy/kundalini.

 

In more esoteric gnostic christian texts, it is often call things like the "bridal or marriage chamber". As in the Gospel of Thomas...

 

 

75. Jesus said, "There are many standing at the door, but those who are alone will enter the bridal suite."

 

Also, from the Secret Gospel of Mary...

 

12. Disciples of Mary said to her, “We are going on a pilgrimage to the holy land so we might see where you and the Lord lived.” Mary said to them, “The holy land is wherever a child of Light goes, and it is where the child of Light abides. The holy land is where the Anointed and the soul are joined, it is the bridal chamber.”

 

23. Mary spoke, and said, “There is baptism, chrism and wedding feast, and there is the ransom and bridal chamber. Baptism is water, chrism is fire and the ransom is earth. The wedding feast is the air, for in the Spirit we shall meet the Anointed on the Day of Joy, and then the element of the bridal chamber shall be fully revealed. Everything the Lord accomplished he accomplished in a mystery, and the Anointed Bride is the mystery.”

 

48. Mary taught her disciples, saying, “The Aeons of Light are the handmaids of the Bride at the wedding feast, and the best man is the Son of Adam at the wedding; in the bridal chamber the soul acquires intimate acquaintance with the Anointed and becomes the Anointed. Until that time, sing and dance and rejoice, for it is to those who abide in joy that the Shekinah comes, and it is through her that you will enter the bridal chamber.”

 

Best wishes,

Jeff

 

(edit - couple of word fixes)

Edited August 19, 2013 by Jeff

[Apech]

Excellent Jeff ... I was going to say that many mistake the 'blood' as meaning the blood line (as in genetics) but it is actually the spirit transmission because he says he will not drink of it again until in heaven.

[Apech]

Just to extend our meditations on the communion. I am seeing the transmission of the lineage occurring in two ways at once, hence the bread and the wine.

 

Bread is of course an ancient type of offering ... which from the very beginnings of our settled life as arable farmers would be the staple food in Egypt and Mediterranean Europe. In Egyptian bread is 'T' which means the female and the substantial. So the bread offering is of body. Jesus was born of a virgin. So although his father is pure spirit his mother is human and of a genetic line. We know that all humans have a common ancestor (Mitochondrial Eve) from maybe 180,000 years ago and if we consider that this comprises the successful genetic code which we all share. Then the Christ is the product of generations of striving towards a kind of perfection ... as in 'be ye perfect as your father in heaven is perfect' ... that is the ability to perfectly reflect the divine but in flesh 'word made flesh'. So in eating Christ's body (the bread) we are saying that we too are partaking in this 'project' of the historical process of working towards union with God. I don't mean this as an abstract thing but as a real recognition of this drive within us. And the way in which this expresses itself is as Christ the King. That is the evolutionary journey is encapsulated in the story of those who lead ... those who take on the needs of the many and sacrifice themselves for the good of others ... their struggle and their suffering. This theme appears time and time again in western culture ... particularly in medieval literature ... the Grail Knights and Shakespeares plays on Kingship for instance, these are all meditations on what this process truly is. In ourselves it is also the struggle to self-rule ... In eating Christ's body we recognise and accept this as our lineage also.

 

The wine is about the other lineage, that of the immediacy of the Holy Spirit, nothing to do with time or history or intent. But the eternal nowness of spirit, the epokhē or suspension of thought and judgement in the immediate but timeless recognition of the presence of Spirit. Being open and accepting of this and drinking Christs blood/spirit and being one with Him.

 

 

[Bubbles]

Just a quick post to say that I am very happy that Apech has decided to start this thread. I will follow the contributions and if I find something meaningful to add, I will.

[Jeff]

Hi Apech,

 

I would agree with much of your post around the aspect of human evolution. The Holy Spirit (or God in creation) is always driving expansion. The pure desire to grow and expand, like with a flower growing in the Sun.

 

I would describe it as that humans (and human potential) have been expanding in God/Tao. Before the coming of Jesus, masters in the world would reach a level of "nearness of God" and share the resulting light/nearness with their students. Very similar to the old computing paradigm of a mainframe with computers connected directly to it. Growing in God was mostly dependent on this master/student direct connection. The more one would surrender to/thru the master, the stronger the connection.

 

With the coming of Jesus and his higher (or greater nearness to God) revelation, human potential (or local computer processing power) had expanded. Expanding the model from the past, Jesus cleared a layer of obstructions from God. In computer terms, not only was he a more powerful mainframe, but he also established peer to peer networking (person to person). This new community in Christ was available to help anyone who wanted to join the network (faith in Christ). Rather than just the lone person striving to connect to the mainframe, it was now possible for Christians to also work and grow together (network computer processing).

 

Also, the cool thing is that there has recently been a new level of expansion in human potential.

 

Best,

Jeff

[Apech]

Hi Apech,

 

I would agree with much of your post around the aspect of human evolution. The Holy Spirit (or God in creation) is always driving expansion. The pure desire to grow and expand, like with a flower growing in the Sun.

 

...

 

I see human evolution as a much broader thing in that we will evolve in a Darwinian sense as a result of struggle and this can be quite unspiritual. The Christ lineage is a particular and to a degree a self selecting thing ... and sometimes runs counter to evolution as in survival because of course the Christ sacrifices himself. (Maybe some would see this as a higher evolution). I think we all have the potential to unlock this particular strand but most would not chose to ... even or perhaps especially church goers ... it has nothing to do, of course with the comforting side of dogma. I feel the true communion to be a secret/sacred and initiatory thing which needs to be unlocked, found, puzzles solved and so on ... hence the sense of hidden secrets which you get from the history of the Knights Templar and so on. Grail Knights (mostly) fail, even Sir Lancelot falls asleep and misses the vision. I don't mean this in an elitist sense but more in the 'many are called but few are chosen' sense. And ironically you can invert this saying ... many or in fact all are called by God to God but only the self selecting i.e. those who take up the difficult mantle of being 'true' are chosen ... or actually chose themselves.

 

Just my thoughts of course.

[三江源]

.

Edited July 21, 2014 by cat

[Apech]

Why does Launcelot get so very sleepy and go to sleep?

 

 

 

A hermit explains to Lancelot the significance of his failure to see the Grail, and the meaning of the voice that called him "harder than stone, more bitter than wood, more barren and bare than the fig tree," p. 86

 

http://faculty.arts.ubc.ca/sechard/344quest.htm

 

... why indeed? have to work it out!

[SonOfTheGods]

Melchizedek is introduced as the king of Salem, and priest of El Elyon ("God most high").
Genesis 14:18-20

Abram/Abraham makes a covenant with El Elyon, who is NOT Yahweh.

In Christianity, according to the Letter to the Hebrews, Jesus Christ is identified as a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek, and so Jesus assumes the role of High Priest once and for all.

 

jeruSALEM

So, according to the myth, Jesus is the son of a Canaanite diety.

Some scholars provide a theophoric association on the latter part of the name, Ṣedeq ("righteousness") as an epithet of a Canaanite god, translating to "Sedeq is my king/lord"



Therefore, jesus would be a Pagan diety, relating to the Canaanite pantheon.

 

So, in Hermetiic Mysticism, this is one of the Biggest secrets.

Below are some scriptures that present my case, further.

___________


"El has taken his place in the assembly of EL, in the midst of the elohim He holds judgment."

Psalm 82:1:

"Ascribe to Yahweh, O sons of EL, ascribe to Yahweh glory and strength."

Psalm 29:1:

"For who in the skies can be compared to Yahweh, who among the sons of EL is like Yahweh,"

Psalm 89:6:

--------------

This is based on the traditional Hebrew text, otherwise known as the Masoretic text (MT). Now look at a much older version of this text that was found in the Dead Sea Scrolls and matches the Greek Septuagint text:

"When El Elyon gave to the nations their inheritance,
when he separated the sons of men,
he fixed the bounds of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God.
For Yahweh's portion is his people,
Jacob his allotted inheritance."

The older text clearly shows that El Elyon is the father of all the gods, and Yahweh is simply one of his sons.

El Elyon divides up the various nations and allocates a portion to Yahweh. The later version of the text simply merged these two gods into a single being.

-----------------

There are other clues that there were originally multiple gods, take Psalm 82 for example, where Yahweh stands in the council of the gods.


1. Psalm of Asaph. God stands in the council of the gods; he judges among the gods.
2. How long will you judge unjustly, and show preference to the wicked? Selah.
3. Judge the poor and the orphans; do righteousness to the afflicted and dispossessed.
4. Deliver the poor and oppressed; save them from the hand of the evil.
5. They do not know and they have no understanding; they walk about in darkness. All the foundations of the earth are shaken.
6. I said, “You are gods, and children of Elyon, every one of you.”
7. But you will die like mortals, and fall like one of the princes.
8. Rise up, O God, and judge the earth, for you have inherited all the nations.

Edited August 20, 2013 by SonOfTheGods

[Jeff]

I see human evolution as a much broader thing in that we will evolve in a Darwinian sense as a result of struggle and this can be quite unspiritual. The Christ lineage is a particular and to a degree a self selecting thing ... and sometimes runs counter to evolution as in survival because of course the Christ sacrifices himself. (Maybe some would see this as a higher evolution). I think we all have the potential to unlock this particular strand but most would not chose to ... even or perhaps especially church goers ... it has nothing to do, of course with the comforting side of dogma. I feel the true communion to be a secret/sacred and initiatory thing which needs to be unlocked, found, puzzles solved and so on ... hence the sense of hidden secrets which you get from the history of the Knights Templar and so on. Grail Knights (mostly) fail, even Sir Lancelot falls asleep and misses the vision. I don't mean this in an elitist sense but more in the 'many are called but few are chosen' sense. And ironically you can invert this saying ... many or in fact all are called by God to God but only the self selecting i.e. those who take up the difficult mantle of being 'true' are chosen ... or actually chose themselves.

 

Just my thoughts of course.

 

I would agree with you that human evolution and development is a very uneven kind of thing. I have found that as one spiritually progresses there is corresponding shift at a cellular and DNA level (part of the kundalini process). This expansion creates a greater potential for energy/light to be "held" in the human form/body. When there are children, this expanded potential is passed on. As you said, ultimately it is up to the person to unlock the potential, but not all bodies/forms have the same starting potential.

 

Regarding the concept of the "Holy Grail", I have found it more common in gnostic Christian traditions to represent the "Shekinah of the Messiah". The completion (or consort) of a Man (or Woman) as the primordial Adam. In the concept of Christian enlightenment, primordial Adam is beyond male and female separation (or contains both sexes). It is very similar to other traditions where gods are alway seen as having a consort or sometimes having both male and female sexual organs. The Gospel of Thomas describes it as follows...

 

 

22. Jesus saw some babies nursing. He said to his disciples, "These nursing babies are like those who enter the (Father's) kingdom." They said to him, "Then shall we enter the (Father's) kingdom as babies?" Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]."

[Jeff]

Melchizedek is introduced as the king of Salem, and priest of El Elyon ("God most high").

Genesis 14:18-20

...

 

In Christianity, according to the Letter to the Hebrews, Jesus Christ is identified as a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek, and so Jesus assumes the role of High Priest once and for all.

...

 

Hi SonOfTheGods,

 

Thanks for highlighting Jesus's connection to Melchizedek. I think it is a meaningful point relevant to the difference (and nearness to God/Tao) that he brought. A few words from The Gospel of Thomas that would seem to relate...

 

28. Jesus said, "I took my stand in the midst of the world, and in flesh I appeared to them. I found them all drunk, and I did not find any of them thirsty. My soul ached for the children of humanity, because they are blind in their hearts and do not see, for they came into the world empty, and they also seek to depart from the world empty. But meanwhile they are drunk. When they shake off their wine, then they will change their ways."

 

 

16. Jesus said, "Perhaps people think that I have come to cast peace upon the world. They do not know that I have come to cast conflicts upon the earth: fire, sword, war. For there will be five in a house: there'll be three against two and two against three, father against son and son against father, and they will stand alone."

 

10. Jesus said, "I have cast fire upon the world, and look, I'm guarding it until it blazes."

[ॐDominicusॐ]

I just want to speak from experience. When I was in early 20's, I got deep into Christianity and eventually got baptized. Quickly after the Baptizm, I was indwelled by a conscious Spirit being that killed off my ego and replaced it with Divine Love of all beings, nonjudgment, bliss, inner channels flowing, it was basically activated grace.

 

Eventually I reached Dark night of the Soul. The only thing that remained was awareness and heart, as well as dipping in and out of the No-I state.

 

So Christ was a purveyor, I believe, of Enlightenment through Grace. Of course in the NT he was basically dumbing everything down to the jews stuck in 800-some-odd rules they were trying to follow where no one was reaching enlightenment. Judaism is a dead school, unless you work on the Kabbalah.

 

Also I thing the OT/NT is for the simple minded average joes, but the nag hamadi, gospel of thomas, etc, is for those who have Grace activated and need deeper teachings. Even in the NT it says that once you get the Holy Spirit (Grace Activated) that no man can teach any more, because you are learning from direct mystical experiences which are transcendent and can only be know from direct experience.

 

That was roughly 12-15 years ago, and since then I have had/been in a constant Now, timelessness, transcendence, detachment from all labels, direct mystical experiences.

 

I don't think Christ came to start a religion, but to destroy all religions which eventually get corrupted and become exoteric shells of what they are supposed to be originally.

 

Technically, the term "Christian" was given to those who followed Christs blueprint, by outsiders looking in. The original Christians called themselves the Followers of "The Way."

 

"The Way" ...is a way of no labels, no church, no religions, detachment, enlightenment, Tao/God, Grace, Love, acceptance of all, and much much more.

 

What we see in the US is a massive exoteric shell that came here based off Catholicism and the majority of is watered down.

[Apech]

@sonofthegods

 

I see a continuity between Christ and the pagan traditions. Some of the late Neo-Platonics were still pagan (Proclus is it?) and the pagan world held great wisdom. Even the Church Fathers cited Hermes Trismegistus and other ante-diluvian masters as understanding the trinity … so you make a good point here I think.

 

@Jeff

 

yes Adam as Father-mother … well just reverse the letters and you get Ma - Da which is pretty clear really! On the evolution thing I think we need to make a distinction between what would occur passively through evolution as a kind of automatic effect and what happens through spiritual work - which is something greater and more significant.

 

@Dominicus

 

thanks for sharing your experience(s) and I think the nature of Grace is something we should discuss further, perhaps you could tell us more. I remember that hermit who lives above St. Anthony's church in the Egyptian desert said that 'beyond peace lies grace' or something to that effect.

[Jeff]

@Jeff

 

yes Adam as Father-mother … well just reverse the letters and you get Ma - Da which is pretty clear really! On the evolution thing I think we need to make a distinction between what would occur passively through evolution as a kind of automatic effect and what happens through spiritual work - which is something greater and more significant.

 

On your evolution point... I guess it depends on where one thinks evolution is naturally "taking" the human form. What do you think "happens through spiritual work - which is something greater and more significant"?