Calling Out All Taoists

[ShinRa]

To start off, I mean no offense to anyone,their practice(s),goals and beliefs. I'm simply interested in why so many here on TTB will practice a system but then mainly dwell on the theoretical and philosophical aspects of Taoism, while not truly "diving in" on the actual qi gong/nei gong aspects which has enormous potential for so many things. For example, I see alot of people on here speaking in riddles and cryptic language and showing how intelligent they are regarding Taoist practices but never discussing how we can achieve great "things" called myths by modern man, miracles by the religious man and spiritual power by ancient man... What I'm truly questioning is... what are you all doing it for? I'm sure the ancients didn't become Taoists to philosophy and have intellectual debates, they wanted to understand nature...master it...and then overcome it..to no longer be bound to "cycles" and natural/universal laws but instead be outside of these "cycles" and above these laws...to be immortal! To defy aging and death(biologically and consciousness-wise) is to defy nature itself.

 

So again, what are you all REALLY doing it for?

[Uroboros]

Those are all wonderful goals/ things to experience. I do feel that they can be done.

 

Since I have little real understanding or experience in regards to them, I leave them alone.

 

My intent now is just to become healthy. With the intent to "see" what those "things" are about and how to go about them.

 

So for now, what am I doing? What I can and what seems best for my current state. Building a solid foundation, transforming the basics- breath, body, mind, eating, etc.

 

I do know what you mean, though. We are capable of so much...how often do we become that? Not often, it seems...

 

Maybe some cannot achieve it, yet their nature has its own full expression and that is what they should go for, I feel..

 

Peace

[ShinRa]

Those are all wonderful goals/ things to experience. I do feel that they can be done.

 

Since I have little real understanding or experience in regards to them, I leave them alone.

 

My intent now is just to become healthy. With the intent to "see" what those "things" are about and how to go about them.

 

So for now, what am I doing? What I can and what seems best for my current state. Building a solid foundation, transforming the basics- breath, body, mind, eating, etc.

 

I do know what you mean, though. We are capable of so much...how often do we become that? Not often, it seems...

 

Maybe some cannot achieve it, yet their nature has its own full expression and that is what they should go for, I feel..

 

Peace

Seems like you're the type of person who goes with the flow which is respectable and I feel like that "path" has its own benefits.. It may actually work better for you than others.. It's true everyone's nature has its own full expression and we should all flow with it, although, IMO we should guide it at times too

[Flolfolil]

you mention experiencing oneness in your interests list

 

my interest in powers greatly decreased (though it is still there, just not a dominating force in my life) when i experienced oneness and realized that all of the powers i was experiencing were just manifestations of that truth

 

its like a magician telling you their secrets and then suddenly you don't care about the magic show

[ChiDragon]

I'm simply interested in why so many here on TTB will practice a system but then mainly dwell on the theoretical and philosophical aspects of Taoism, while not truly "diving in" on the actual qi gong/nei gong aspects which has enormous potential for so many things.

 

For example, I see alot of people on here speaking in riddles and cryptic language and showing how intelligent they are regarding Taoist practices but never discussing how we can achieve great "things" called myths by modern man, miracles by the religious man and spiritual power by ancient man...

 

What I'm truly questioning is... what are you all doing it for? I'm sure the ancients didn't become Taoists to philosophy and have intellectual debates, they wanted to understand nature...master it...and then overcome it..to no longer be bound to "cycles" and natural/universal laws but instead be outside of these "cycles" and above these laws...to be immortal! To defy aging and death(biologically and consciousness-wise) is to defy nature itself.

 

So again, what are you all REALLY doing it for?

 

Taoist mainly dwell on the theoretical and philosophical aspects of Taoism is to have a fully understanding of their beliefs. Having a better understanding, to begin with, will be more meaningful and appreciative to perform the practice.

 

Understanding nature is not to master it nor overcome it but integrated with it. There are lots of people are practicing qigong/neigong by absorbing the source of energy from the universe as part of integrating with Nature.

[Uroboros]

Seems like you're the type of person who goes with the flow which is respectable and I feel like that "path" has its own benefits.. It may actually work better for you than others.. It's true everyone's nature has its own full expression and we should all flow with it, although, IMO we should guide it at times too

 

Yes and No. I "listen" to what is in my experience at the moment. I also "listen" to my heart. What I feel is the truest expression of who I am. I move with my "true" heart expression. I work with the environment around me.

 

So I do both. I go with the flowing river and I walk on the land.

 

Sometimes I will do what has been presented to me if it feels "right". Other times I wont. It depends on what my internal sense "feels".

 

Often times that is just to wait, to enjoy what already is here.

 

Sometimes its to move, to create.

 

Peace.

[Marblehead]

...to be immortal! To defy aging and death(biologically and consciousness-wise) is to defy nature itself.

 

So again, what are you all REALLY doing it for?

You, I, nor anyone else will ever defy nature. You will not become physically or spiritually immortal. That is not the way the universe works. Learning how to live within nature (all inclusive) is the true goal of Taoism. To live this physical life in a manner that is worthy of the Heavens is what adds significance to the physical life.

 

Why am I doing it? I have learned how to lessen the conflicts I have in my 'real' life. I think that's a pretty good reason.

[3bob]

MH,

In one way you are right since one does not exactly become immortal because the quintessential Self already is and has always been so, (although veiled over) thus the most real life is when that veil is removed!

 

TTC 16

...To be one with the Tao is to abide forever.

Such a one will be safe and whole

Even after the dissolution of his body.

[zerostao]

shinra, while we do have alot of philosophic dialogue here that sometimes goes to a ancient greek meets tao approach,

there are also many fine cultivation threads where members have shared experiences.

you have to dig a little deeper around here to find them perhaps, how are your archeological skilz?

on the cultivation threads you will find alot of book speak there too, but you will also find posts based on personal experience.

[Protector]

http://thetaobums.com/topic/31189-we-should-no-longer-see-aid-as-an-active-livestyle-rather-a-natural-byproduct-of-our-own-spiritual-evolution/

 

Qi gong is another way to poke the bottle

[Marblehead]

MH,

In one way you are right since one does not exactly become immortal because the quintessential Self already is and has always been so, (although veiled over) thus the most real life is when that veil is removed!

Yeah. We have a few different opinions and understanding regarding this. Hehehe. No problem, we have been through it all before.

 

I'm just trying to point out that we are elements of the universe and we operate within the boundries of the universe.

 

It would sadden me if others put too much attention on this aspect of Taoism.

 

And even people who live their whole life with only healthy habits end up in the hospital dying from nothing.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

To start off, I mean no offense to anyone,their practice(s),goals and beliefs. I'm simply interested in why so many here on TTB will practice a system but then mainly dwell on the theoretical and philosophical aspects of Taoism, while not truly "diving in" on the actual qi gong/nei gong aspects which has enormous potential for so many things. ...

...

So again, what are you all REALLY doing it for?

 

 

1. America. it gets in the way of reality and holds you short of gunpoint expecting you to do things its way.

 

2. we're all here on TTB because we have literally nothing better to do with ourtime than be on the forum.

 

We probably cant afford to do better than this, or lack the proper guidance to go someplace where we can accomplish better.

 

 

Maybe we just plain lack knowledge of where else we even CAN bother to spend an effort learning...

 

 

But most of all, americans are here to show off their intellectual elitism and "out philosophize" each other.

 

 

I'm here because i hope to find a pointer of the way... a sign, a marker, a person, anything or anyone that can guide me to a tribal community that i dont have to think about the outside world ever again, ever have to worry about fraud, injustice, taxation, murder, or theft. never have to immerse myself in the sickness of civility...

 

 

I am here in pursuit of a delusional hope that i could ever find contentment in this world, or a path to lead me there so i can engage myself on the proper path, rather than everything i've experienced thus far.

 

 

 

 

Edit: added "or a path to lead me there so i can engage myself on the proper path, rather than everything i've experienced thus far"

Edited August 20, 2013 by Northern Avid Judo Ant

[hydrogen]

To start off, I mean no offense to anyone,their practice(s),goals and beliefs. I'm simply interested in why so many here on TTB will practice a system but then mainly dwell on the theoretical and philosophical aspects of Taoism, while not truly "diving in" on the actual qi gong/nei gong aspects which has enormous potential for so many things.

 

Sry, I didn't find your post about how you "diving in" on the actual qi qong aspects. Where is it?

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

its like a magician telling you their secrets and then suddenly you don't care about the magic show

I've always been MORE fascinated by magic once i understood how it worked!

[3bob]

Mh,

It saddens me not to know certain things,

 

Btw, knowing certain things did not sadden the author of the Tao Teh Ching:

 

"...It is said that he who knows well how to live meets
no tigers or wild buffaloes on his road, and comes out
from the battle-ground untouched by the weapons of
war. For, in him, a buffalo would find no butt for his
horns, a tiger nothing to lay his claws upon, and a
weapon of war no place to admit its point. How is this?
Because there is no room for Death in him". From Chapter 50

 

Explain away the last line above if you prefer but such can not be done without leaving a core teaching given by Lao Tzu. (or as found in the TTC)

Edited August 20, 2013 by 3bob

[thelerner]

Going for myths, miracles & powers. Not any more. Maybe its a Buddhist thing, but the longer I'm in the game, the more my goal is inner peace, some longevity, feeling oneness. For me, Taoism is about being closer to true nature; following its rules. Immortality and strangeness's like psychic powers aren't on the list, though dream work..lucidity/astral travel is.. so I guess I have a little of the bug in me after all.

Edited August 20, 2013 by thelerner

[LCH]

How can anyone know who is "diving in" or not? An online forum is inherently intellectual in its means of expression.

 

I know what you are saying, and I have asked the same question, but becoming fixated on an answer to that question tends to limit the "diving in" potential to me.

 

Just from my own experience.

 

Most of my genuine "Taoist" responses to posts on the forum, are never expressed :-)

[ShinRa]

you mention experiencing oneness in your interests list

 

my interest in powers greatly decreased (though it is still there, just not a dominating force in my life) when i experienced oneness and realized that all of the powers i was experiencing were just manifestations of that truth

 

its like a magician telling you their secrets and then suddenly you don't care about the magic show

I agree, my interest in powers decreased as well after experiencing oneness...but then that truth lead to the realization of many other things like for example, what we consider "death" or for better clarification, "cause of death", is extremely subjective...

 

 

 

Taoist mainly dwell on the theoretical and philosophical aspects of Taoism is to have a fully understanding of their beliefs. Having a better understanding, to begin with, will be more meaningful and appreciative to perform the practice.

 

Understanding nature is not to master it nor overcome it but integrated with it. There are lots of people are practicing qigong/neigong by absorbing the source of energy from the universe as part of integrating with Nature.

Of course the theoretical and philosophical aspects of Taoism allows one to have an understanding of their beliefs, IMO it's fundamental. What I'm mainly getting at is how some will get caught up in those aspects and sit around arguing and debating what is what instead of actually performing the practice itself and taking something so simple and making it unnecessarily complex...

 

To be integrated with nature is like gently floating in a river,going wherever it takes you...to overcome nature is to change the river you're floating in. (What I mean by overcoming/defying nature is very subjective!)

 

 

Yes and No. I "listen" to what is in my experience at the moment. I also "listen" to my heart. What I feel is the truest expression of who I am. I move with my "true" heart expression. I work with the environment around me.

 

So I do both. I go with the flowing river and I walk on the land.

 

Sometimes I will do what has been presented to me if it feels "right". Other times I wont. It depends on what my internal sense "feels".

 

Often times that is just to wait, to enjoy what already is here.

 

Sometimes its to move, to create.

 

Peace.

 

Awesome my friend. I guess the simplest way to describe what you're saying is with the words "intuition" and "balance"..

 

 

You, I, nor anyone else will ever defy nature. You will not become physically or spiritually immortal. That is not the way the universe works. Learning how to live within nature (all inclusive) is the true goal of Taoism. To live this physical life in a manner that is worthy of the Heavens is what adds significance to the physical life.

 

Why am I doing it? I have learned how to lessen the conflicts I have in my 'real' life. I think that's a pretty good reason.

What I meant by "defy nature" is extremely subjective and is just my way of saying to "break the cycle(s)" or Samsara as others call it. To say someone won't become physically or spiritually immortal is saying the universe is limited and that it's impossible therefore making the universe finite... IME with -oneness-, I "felt" that the universe is infinite in potential therefore infinite in possibility. Nobody knows everything about the universe, I definitely don't but I do know there is infinitely more to learn and no way anyone can say "how it works" so I must question and learn what "death" actually is and not just accept the dictionary definition for it.

 

I agree living within nature is a goal of Taoism although there are lineages out there that would say living within nature is only the beginning... Your reason for doing it is shared by many and it's a wonderful thing how Taoism has released so many from the bondage of which we call "modern living"..

 

 

shinra, while we do have alot of philosophic dialogue here that sometimes goes to a ancient greek meets tao approach,

there are also many fine cultivation threads where members have shared experiences.

you have to dig a little deeper around here to find them perhaps, how are your archeological skilz?

on the cultivation threads you will find alot of book speak there too, but you will also find posts based on personal experience.

You're absolutely right, I haven't dug deep enough here to find the treasures of personal experiences on the cultivation threads so my archeological skills must suck lol. Thanks for the reminder, I'll definitely be reading up on alot tonight!

[Marblehead]

Ah, 3bob, so you want another discussion, do you> Hehehe.

 

Mh,

It saddens me not to know certain things,

There is more knowledge than your or my brain could ever come close to consuming. At some point we need to say, "Stop! That's enough."

 

Btw, knowing certain things did not sadden the author of the Tao Teh Ching:

 

"...It is said that he who knows well how to live meets
no tigers or wild buffaloes on his road, and comes out
from the battle-ground untouched by the weapons of
war. For, in him, a buffalo would find no butt for his
horns, a tiger nothing to lay his claws upon, and a
weapon of war no place to admit its point. How is this?
Because there is no room for Death in him". From Chapter 50

Yep. That is from the TTC. Do you really believe the way it is translated? I suggest that would not be good.

 

Expose yourself to a tiger in the wild and you will likely die, especially if you try to pet some females little cubs.

 

Try to go for a ride on a wild buffalo. I promise you, you will not have a happy day.

 

Expose yourself to the enemy while in battle and I promise you that it will be the last thing you ever do.

 

There is room for death in every living thing. No exceptions. Period.

 

The way that part of Chapter 50 should be understood, IMO, is that the wise man never exposes himself to these dangers. He is totally aware of his surroundings so he does not make himself visible to these dangers. Logic dictates that we read the TTC with our logical mind first. Then, if you feel frisky go ahead and venture into the implied mysticism. But while you are doing that don't forget the logic of "reality".

 

Explain away the last line above if you prefer but such can not be done without leaving a core teaching given by Lao Tzu. (or as found in the TTC)

Interpretation is everything. We are not spirit beings such that if a sword is thrust into our mid-section it will do no harm. Such and act would likely cause us to die.

 

Yes, I still watch my butterflies but I know that I cannot fly. Illusions and delusions are some tricky things. Sometimes they cause no harm, other times we venture into great danger.

[ShinRa]

 

 

1. America. it gets in the way of reality and holds you short of gunpoint expecting you to do things its way.

 

2. we're all here on TTB because we have literally nothing better to do with ourtime than be on the forum.

 

We probably cant afford to do better than this, or lack the proper guidance to go someplace where we can accomplish better.

 

 

Maybe we just plain lack knowledge of where else we even CAN bother to spend an effort learning...

 

 

But most of all, americans are here to show off their intellectual elitism and "out philosophize" each other.

 

 

I'm here because i hope to find a pointer of the way... a sign, a marker, a person, anything or anyone that can guide me to a tribal community that i dont have to think about the outside world ever again, ever have to worry about fraud, injustice, taxation, murder, or theft. never have to immerse myself in the sickness of civility...

 

 

I am here in pursuit of a delusional hope that i could ever find contentment in this world, or a path to lead me there so i can engage myself on the proper path, rather than everything i've experienced thus far.

 

 

 

 

Edit: added "or a path to lead me there so i can engage myself on the proper path, rather than everything i've experienced thus far"

 

 

Exactly! It's this intellectual elitism that's creating complexity out of something so simple. It's like trying to explain and argue all the many different properties of lava and why it's dangerous to walk in it because of XYZ, when we all know to simply....not walk in it.

 

My friend, I wouldn't say finding contentment in this world is a delusional hope, but rather it's delusional to those who don't want to find contentment in this world.

 

Sry, I didn't find your post about how you "diving in" on the actual qi qong aspects. Where is it?

I don't have any posts about me "diving in", nor did I ever say that I "dive in" myself or that I'm somehow superior if that's what you think I'm implying by my original post. I'm just here out of interest to question why my fellow Taoists became Taoists in the first place. Also, I posted my question hoping to rekindle the fire in those that have lately been too passive in pursuing their goals.

 

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/31189-we-should-no-longer-see-aid-as-an-active-livestyle-rather-a-natural-byproduct-of-our-own-spiritual-evolution/

 

Qi gong is another way to poke the bottle

That was real interesting..thanks for the link!

 

 

Mh,

It saddens me not to know certain things,

 

Btw, knowing certain things did not sadden the author of the Tao Teh Ching:

 

"...It is said that he who knows well how to live meets

no tigers or wild buffaloes on his road, and comes out

from the battle-ground untouched by the weapons of

war. For, in him, a buffalo would find no butt for his

horns, a tiger nothing to lay his claws upon, and a

weapon of war no place to admit its point. How is this?

Because there is no room for Death in him". From Chapter 50

 

Explain away the last line above if you prefer but such can not be done without leaving a core teaching given by Lao Tzu. (or as found in the TTC)

Awesome lol, my thoughts exactly. ^^

 

 

Going for myths, miracles & powers. Not any more. Maybe its a Buddhist thing, but the longer I'm in the game, the more my goal is inner peace, some longevity, feeling oneness. For me, Taoism as being closer to true nature; following its rules. Immortality and strangeness's like psychic powers aren't on the list, though dream work..lucidity/astral travel is.. so I guess I have a little of the bug in me after all.

Who knows, achieving your goal may give you those powers as a by-product...

 

 

How can anyone know who is "diving in" or not? An online forum is inherently intellectual in its means of expression.

 

I know what you are saying, and I have asked the same question, but becoming fixated on an answer to that question tends to limit the "diving in" potential to me.

 

Just from my own experience.

 

Most of my genuine "Taoist" responses to posts on the forum, are never expressed :-)

 

That's true! The reason I asked this question though was for two reasons, which one was of course out of interest/curiosity and the other was to indirectly make others remind themselves why they were doing it in the first place.

Edited August 20, 2013 by ShinRa

[Marblehead]

What I meant by "defy nature" is extremely subjective and is just my way of saying to "break the cycle(s)" or Samsara as others call it. To say someone won't become physically or spiritually immortal is saying the universe is limited and that it's impossible therefore making the universe finite... IME with -oneness-, I "felt" that the universe is infinite in potential therefore infinite in possibility. Nobody knows everything about the universe, I definitely don't but I do know there is infinitely more to learn and no way anyone can say "how it works" so I must question and learn what "death" actually is and not just accept the dictionary definition for it.

 

I agree living within nature is a goal of Taoism although there are lineages out there that would say living within nature is only the beginning... Your reason for doing it is shared by many and it's a wonderful thing how Taoism has released so many from the bondage of which we call "modern living"..

Nice reply. I pretty much agree with you this time. You are wanting to go places to find your truths whereas I have been to most of those places and if I found no support for a particular thought I figured it wasn't worth investigating any further.

 

My main reason for my initial response was to speak to the concept of nature and how we all must live within its realm. Sure, we can change the course of a river, if it is a small one. The Mississippi River doen't much care what man tried to do to it. It just keeps rolling along.

 

Sure, continue your search, by all means. But I suggest that you don't accept stuff without proof. Pretend you are from Missouri, the "Show Me" state.

[Marblehead]

Awesome lol, my thoughts exactly. ^^

But have you read my response and considered its validity?

[Uroboros]

Ah, 3bob, so you want another discussion, do you> Hehehe.

 

There is more knowledge than your or my brain could ever come close to consuming. At some point we need to say, "Stop! That's enough."

 

Yep. That is from the TTC. Do you really believe the way it is translated? I suggest that would not be good.

 

Expose yourself to a tiger in the wild and you will likely die, especially if you try to pet some females little cubs.

 

Try to go for a ride on a wild buffalo. I promise you, you will not have a happy day.

 

Expose yourself to the enemy while in battle and I promise you that it will be the last thing you ever do.

 

There is room for death in every living thing. No exceptions. Period.

 

The way that part of Chapter 50 should be understood, IMO, is that the wise man never exposes himself to these dangers. He is totally aware of his surroundings so he does not make himself visible to these dangers. Logic dictates that we read the TTC with our logical mind first. Then, if you feel frisky go ahead and venture into the implied mysticism. But while you are doing that don't forget the logic of "reality".

 

Interpretation is everything. We are not spirit beings such that if a sword is thrust into our mid-section it will do no harm. Such and act would likely cause us to die.

 

Yes, I still watch my butterflies but I know that I cannot fly. Illusions and delusions are some tricky things. Sometimes they cause no harm, other times we venture into great danger.

 

Another point of view is that it is possible to "communicate" with the Tiger and there will be no need for violence.

 

It is, I believe, possible to integrate our various systems in such a way that the "laws" change.

 

How to do it? Dunno. Im not there yet. Just a baby, am I.

 

Does that mean its not possible? Nope, just that it may be quite difficult or so simple its mostly overlooked.

 

We each experience our own life and have our own desires/ impulses.....Who knows if what one experiences is the same as what another experiences.

 

Hehehe, the Tao that can be spoken of.....

 

Peace

[Uroboros]

Awesome my friend. I guess the simplest way to describe what you're saying is with the words "intuition" and "balance"..

 

haha, yep. Intuition- the deepest, truest "pulse" that I can "hear" at the moment.

 

Balance...Hmm..Yes. Balance as a verb, though. An action. Its something that I dont want to "get". its something that I do. Create. Like dancing.

 

I enjoy your question! Its important, I feel. Sometimes its easy to fall into a lull and questioning what we are really doing can help.

[Uroboros]

If you think about it, we often, in our practices "defy" nature. To be more precise, its closer to Reversing Nature.

 

Our bodies do what they do. Well, we learn Cultivation Methods to CHANGE that. Nature is already doing its thing within us and we want to change HOW it does that.

 

Sure, the goals are usually to bring more harmony and such. Still we are changing natures course. We do it all the time, as humans.

 

Another way is thru "Jing" or sexual energy retention/ sublimation. For men, the natural course is for all that energy to be ejaculated into the woman, or anywhere really, for the purpose of passing genetic code/ life force onto the next generation.

 

This happens to be done at the expense of the males life force.

 

Well, we alter that! We Reverse Nature and channel that energy inwards. Instead of expending it towards the next generation, expending our life force in the process, we reverse that process to use the energy to expand our cultivation and growth.

 

Some thoughts.

 

Peace