The feminization of the Western male?

[Peregrino]

OK, my experiences as a humanities grad student have instilled an automatic self-censorhip mechanism--"What do you mean by 'feminization'? What sort of monolithic characterization is implied by referring to the Western male?"--but still, I must press on . . .

 

Since the topic came up during the latest Sean Denty slugfest on another thread, I thought I'd re-introduce it here: I would contend that many men in most every Western country are sorely lacking in male role models, male virtues, and basic self-respect, and so turn to teachers like David Deida, PUA and MRA websites, to seek (however incompletely) to make up for this great lack.

 

I know that _The Tao of Steve_ was pseudo-indie Hollywood Taoism Lite, but I did appreciate that flick's affirmation of male assertiveness, though I think my ideal of manliness would be more of a cross between Lee Marvin and Laozi! My personal experience in the past few years of embracing more traditionally masculine values is that whatever I've lost socially from giving up supplicating, PC sycophancy I've gained tenfold in self-respect . . . and [transition to pimp voice] the ever-burnin' passion of my fine woman!

 

(Oops, a woman once told me that emoticons were unmanly, but I'll keep mine up because I'm manly enough not to care about seeming unmanly . . .) >>>AND DAMN IT, ADD A LEE MARVIN CIGAR TO THAT EMOTICON!!!

 

PS

Robert Bly's a wuss. The only feeeeeeeeeeeeeeelings a man should regularly share in public settings is the righteous anger to smite his enemies! (I would say j/k now, but that sounds wussy too! )

 

So, is masculinity all about "performance," or a re-training/-awakening of instincts?

[Wayfarer64]

What a great avatar! There is -GWB- machismo gone bad indeed and fact.

 

There is a dark side to male agressiveness, as in most human attributes, even pity and coy/sillyness as other such more feminine qualities can be quite distructive, when used inappropriatly or more exactly in a dishonest way.

 

Things like honor and compassion seem to remain basicly benign, but I guess if I think about it -there may be instances when these also are applied in harmful ways...

 

Also, it is dangerous to provoke those of us who are not put-off by our animal natures but use them to learn a deeper understanding of this human experience we share as spirits in human form...The mainstream males- & females too- in the west particularly, have no inkling of what that is about.

 

Thailand is a society that addresses these issues in a very up-front way. Most people know what they are and still allow for spiritual ascention. When it is time to fight, most -fighting aged-monks in Thailand would put aside their monks' robes and fight the commies or whoever- and then go back to being monks. To every season, turn turn turn .

 

Maintaning ones' protective & warrior/hunter instincts and still attempting to lead a spiritualy ascending life is one of the tougher balancing acts. It is important to me not to deny one for the other, it is just another aspect of Yin/Yang to unite the paradox of...I believe a master transcends as a whole being with all of his/her nature intact and controled by the inner-most (sacred spark) being's guidence and sagasity.

 

It is difficult to find a balance, that is also why Taoism is important to learn and teach. It is all about balance. Using everything at its correct time for use.

[gendao]

Now, what this guy did here goes against EVERYTHING women and feminism have taught as as men:

we were all sitting down at this small table and there were no more chairs left i got up to make a phone call and she took my spot when i came back she had left and I took my chair back, she then tells me in a ***** voice

 

she8: "hey you took my chair"!

me : and wat u want me to do ?

she8: "I want my chair back "

me :"well there is a chair at that other table(other chair must of been like 7 feet away and must of weight like 30 pounds)

why don't you go get it because am not leaving my spot "

she8: your an *******

me : oh well am still not leaving my spot

 

she8like 20 minutes later she pulls the chair closer to me and introduces her self)" hi wats your name?"

me : my name is _____ wats your name ?

she8: my name is april

me: well nice to meet you april

she8: hey can i tell you something ?

me:yeah wats up

she8: hey i really liked the way you told me to get that chair , I really like a man who is in charge , because any other guy would just gave me their chair but you told me to f*** off in a way and I really liked that

mespeechless)

she8:hey do you like to smoke?

me:yes

she8: well hey I would love to hang out with you and smoke out.I would ask for your number but i forgot my cell phone but heres my phone number.###-###-####

mek ill ttyl and boom I left with my friend.

 

the best part is the number wasn't a fake so I smoked out with her and had sex like 2 days later

And yet it WORKED...because it goes along with human NATURE.

 

Nature is sexist. It created us different with different class strengths and weaknesses. We are not androgynous by birth and gender is not merely a social construct. Humans need to get over it and embrace our TRUE natures. Men need to be strong enough for women to withstand all their shyt-tests. 'What you can't say no to has power over you.' So if a man never says no to a woman - he's showing that she has power over him - which is a turn-off to both.

 

This seems common sense but in our feminist counter-culture, the obvious truth has been made taboo and replaced by groupthink falsehood. Truth is, "feminism" has become a sugar-coated pseudonym for misandry, female supremacy, anti-femininity, closet masculinism, penis envy, lesbianism & androgyny. And very often, the projection of personal issues and the scapegoating for one's personal problems onto men.

 

Although I also wonder why there seem to be so many MRA/PUAs in here? Are we seeking a lost masculinity in an ancient art? Or has masculinism simply become so widespread everywhere lately?

[Pietro]

What does MRA means?

 

I think here

Nature is sexist.

 

you said it all.

 

I also think that something is bubbling. I can feel it, beneath the surface. It comes out here and there. Women got their revolution as a big mass movement. But we are different, more individualistic. Yet I can feel the pressure being added on the one side, and the pressure being released on the other as everynow and then a man steps up, and other agree. No big shouting on the street, but one standing, and the other supporting.

 

And man step up in many different ways, PUA is one, but denouncing how equality is harming fairness is another. Protesting for different treatment between fathers and mothers in divorce is another.

As people step up against the paedophile witch hunt. (or step down: you can find the link? Try google cache, 2, or the snipme but the original had 160 comments. Collectively as interesting as the original article)

 

As man speak about how they got raped when they were kids (link to an italian article). How study show that woman are as violent as man.

 

And how woman like a man who is in charge. How non feminist appear statistically more happy. And even Gor group expands.

 

 

But still there are many places in which the pressure builds. With the sensation that is a wave that has to pass. In china they are starting, Stealing a kiss in italy is now sex abuse. (which makes me both a vistim and an abuser). Women who falsely accuse of rape are sentenced to a microscopic length of time compared to what her victim would risk if she was not discovered. As kids are being accused of sexual harasment: "Mommy what have I done? Why is the police coming and taking me?"

 

And how studies on differences in gender (and in race) are being hidden. (archived version here)

 

So, yes, I would say that we are in the middle of a process.

Feminism as a wave has just passed, and now men are awakening. Soem through a divorce, some through a cause. Some through years of forced solitude. And depending on what awakened them they end up in the various schools (Deida, Bly, PUA, ...)

and let me add Moore and Gillette, author of King, Warrior, Magician, Lover.

 

So, yes, we are in the middle of a process.

[TonyTao]

Hey, did you notice that in this little story it is still the woman who is being assertive, making the choices and making the moves? The guy is just behaving passively and beligerently... just an observation

 

We need to be careful here. Sexism is the exploitation of one sex by another, as racism is the exploitation of one race by another. Obviously there are behavioural differences between the sexes and there are probably innate male and female roles in our relationships, but that does not mean sexism - ie exploitation - is natural. Sure, many women want a man who is assertive and strong, but IMHO they are not looking for mistreatment or a man who behaves like a pig.

 

Taoism is about a yin-yang balance in ourselves and our relationships. I think conventional male/female role models based on social expectations are not always helpful. I would suggest the answer is for us to explore our own sexuality and relation with the opposite (or same!) sex for ourselves.

 

Remember:

 

Know the masculine,

but keep to the feminine:

and become a watershed to the world.

If you embrace the world,

the Tao will never leave you

and you become as a little child.

 

Laozi chapter 28.

[gendao]

Sexism is the exploitation of one sex by another, as racism is the exploitation of one race by another.

But many feminists would beg to differ with you about your definition...or claim that EVERYTHING qualifies as "exploitation" of women. Even if it is due to biological differences or the woman's own choice.

 

The reality today is as in Pietro's well-linked post. If anything, women aren't getting exploited nearly as much as men are these days...

[freeform]

As I implied in another post -

 

the masculine has a strong, unbreakable core that is stillness and one-pointedness.

 

the feminine has a flowing, shifting, fluid nature - movement and everythingness.

 

The masculine is like a lighthouse in a stormy, feminine ocean - the waves of the feminine crash against the hard stone of the masculine, the aim of the feminine (that tests the masculine) is to tempt the stones to dislodge and the aim of the masculine is to stand strong against this movement.

 

I think of the masculine as standing in full iron shirt structure and the feminine is your partner pushing gently to reveal weaknesses in this structure.

 

The recent feminization has convinced the masculine to shift it's structure to flow more like the feminine... it's like the water of the ocean started seeping through the cracks of the lighthouse... The feminine doesn't want the masculine to shift, but it's in the feminine's nature to constantly test the masculine this way. The masculine is threatened by the power of the feminine and rather than using it's nature as a feedback to strengthen its structure tends to try and surrender and supplicate to the feminine... this is disastrous... Before this when the masculine was threatened by the feminine it would suppress it by trying to still its movement and suppress its changing nature.

 

this is my oppinion

 

[xsplat]

Now, what this guy did here goes against EVERYTHING women and feminism have taught as as men:

And yet it WORKED...because it goes along with human NATURE.

 

Nature is sexist. It created us different with different class strengths and weaknesses. We are not androgynous by birth and gender is not merely a social construct. Humans need to get over it and embrace our TRUE natures. Men need to be strong enough for women to withstand all their shyt-tests. 'What you can't say no to has power over you.' So if a man never says no to a woman - he's showing that she has power over him - which is a turn-off to both.

 

This seems common sense but in our feminist counter-culture, the obvious truth has been made taboo and replaced by groupthink falsehood. Truth is, "feminism" has become a sugar-coated pseudonym for misandry, female supremacy, anti-femininity, closet masculinism, penis envy, lesbianism & androgyny. And very often, the projection of personal issues and the scapegoating for one's personal problems onto men.

 

Although I also wonder why there seem to be so many MRA/PUAs in here? Are we seeking a lost masculinity in an ancient art? Or has masculinism simply become so widespread everywhere lately?

 

Brilliant post. I wish I had anything to add or some other useful comment. I rarely comment with what can be summarized in a smiley, but this deserves applaud. Can I quote this on my blog?

[Taomeow]

A mother can do a lot of damage. A miserable woman (whether she's aware of her misery or not) will make her son miserable whether she wants to or not. Misery is transmitted through the umbilical cord, and if she's carrying you AND the ages-old, billions-of-tons-heavy burden of "the way 'civilized' society treats women" in her belly simultaneously, you get your share of the burden on autopilot. Once you're born, you'll get more of it -- she doesn't have to "do it to you," it has been done, by, ahem, men in charge. That's why ages-old abuse of women is the everlasting source of miserable men.

 

The only proof that women are not being abused, exploited, mistreated and physically and spiritually demolished would be happy, healthy, balanced men everywhere. The sons of the happy, healthy, balanced mothers. If that's who you meet every step of the way when you walk out the door, then we're all in tip-top shape.

[Pietro]

Hey, did you notice that in this little story it is still the woman who is being assertive, making the choices and making the moves? The guy is just behaving passively and beligerently... just an observation

Indeed just an observation. In the PUA community stories like this are common, but in general the women is actually passive, and the effect of standing to her only opens a door. But unless the men was active, or really good in spotting her IOI (indicators of interest) he would never have found out. But then the story would not have been told.

 

Fishing is an art,

On the edge between hard and soft.

Indeed a great school.

[gendao]

Brilliant post. I wish I had anything to add or some other useful comment. I rarely comment with what can be summarized in a smiley, but this deserves applaud. Can I quote this on my blog?

Ha sure...glad you enjoyed it!

 

Taomeow - my mother nor my grandmothers were abused. They were all treated very well, in fact.

 

But that does not insulate me from the misandry I am subject to in this feminized culture. For elaboration on that, please read post #4 here. I hardly think all of that is due to "men's abuse of women transmitted through the umbilical cord before birth." Nice try, though!

[Taomeow]

Ha sure...glad you enjoyed it!

 

Taomeow - my mother nor my grandmothers were abused. They were all treated very well, in fact.

 

But that does not insulate me from the misandry I am subject to in this feminized culture. For elaboration on that, please read post #4 here. I hardly think all of that is due to "men's abuse of women transmitted through the umbilical cord before birth." Nice try, though!

 

Vortex,

 

how come out of the One Thousand Wealthiest People in the USA, 999 are men and 1 (Oprah) is a woman?

 

"Abuse" is not what you see on TV for which the solution offered is "shelters for battered women." Your mother and grandmother were treated very well. Great. Mine had to live through wars unleashed by men, lose husbands and children to concentration camps that were men's business ventures and men's political work; drop out of med school because of pregnancy (grandmother), throw away the "most talented mathematician I've met in all of my career" (a letter to my mother from her old math professor) and work as "something or other now pregnant and later wiping snotty noses instead of working" (my mother's boss a couple years later), work night shifts with infants at home, and no, they weren't shelter-worthy abused... they were abused by default by the set-up offered by society from the start. A man-made set-up, not a woman-made one.

 

What's your take on Chinese women with crippled legs -- bound feet -- the practice existed for about a thousand years, and it was supposedly the "mothers" who did it to the daughters -- ever wondered why? When asked, they responded, oh, but the girl won't be able to marry if her legs aren't bound. OK. Won't be able to marry, what's the big deal? The big deal is, it just so happened that for a thousand years, you could be either a peasant girl working eighteen hours a day every day, or a member of the aristocracy having no access to any income of your own other than through your husband. And the husband won't take you if you're not crippled. It was considered 'lowly and unfeminine' to have natural feet. For a thousand years. Femininity as defined by men, insane men at that.

 

Anyway... it's not a short-post kind of a conversation, so I better quit while I'm ahead. Just don't you even think of slapping me with the label you think of as defining something despicable -- a "feminist" -- 'cause my single most favorite human being in the world is my son, my nail polish is blood red, my martial skills are modest but far from nonexistent, my cooking skills are bordering on sublime, and I've studied quantum mechanics and can knit too, and I am a heterosexual female with zero interest in being any other way, and whether any of the above or all of the above make me a "feminist" I don't know, but surely the world has been yang-skewed long enough for me to notice, 'cause I am very VERY aware of the kind of world I'm looking at.

Edited May 12, 2007 by Taomeow

[Pietro]

my single most favorite human being in the world is my son, my nail polish is blood red, my martial skills are modest but far from nonexistent, my cooking skills are bordering on sublime, and I've studied quantum mechanics and can knit too, and I am a heterosexual female with zero interest in being any other way, and whether any of the above or all of the above make me a "feminist" I don't know, but surely the world has been yang-skewed long enough for me to notice, 'cause I am very VERY aware of the kind of world I'm looking at.

 

Yeah,

talk talk talk.

 

I doubt that your cooking skills are sublime, and I challenge you to prove it!

[gendao]

Vortex,

 

how come out of the One Thousand Wealthiest People in the USA, 999 are men and 1 (Oprah) is a woman?

 

"Abuse" is not what you see on TV for which the solution offered is "shelters for battered women." Your mother and grandmother were treated very well. Great. Mine had to live through wars unleashed by men, lose husbands and children to concentration camps that were men's business ventures and men's political work; drop out of med school because of pregnancy (grandmother), throw away the "most talented mathematician I've met in all of my career" (a letter to my mother from her old math professor) and work as "something or other now pregnant and later wiping snotty noses instead of working" (my mother's boss a couple years later), work night shifts with infants at home, and no, they weren't shelter-worthy abused... they were abused by default by the set-up offered by society from the start. A man-made set-up, not a woman-made one.

 

What's your take on Chinese women with crippled legs -- bound feet -- the practice existed for about a thousand years, and it was supposedly the "mothers" who did it to the daughters -- ever wondered why? When asked, they responded, oh, but the girl won't be able to marry if her legs aren't bound. OK. Won't be able to marry, what's the big deal? The big deal is, it just so happened that for a thousand years, you could be either a peasant girl working eighteen hours a day every day, or a member of the aristocracy having no access to any income of your own other than through your husband. And the husband won't take you if you're not crippled. It was considered 'lowly and unfeminine' to have natural feet. For a thousand years. Femininity as defined by men, insane men at that.

1) Why are men also bigger, stronger and have IQs 4-8 pts higher on average? The answer is in evolution. Sexual dimorphism was the result of gender role specialization and sexual reproduction - which proved more effective than asexual androgny. The proof is that we are all here today as a result of the former, not the latter. Anyhow, in this role specialization, males assumed the roles as protectors and providers and women as nurturinng replicators. So, females chose men for survival value (power), males chose females for replication value (beauty).

 

Therefore, men compete more strongly for power - because our worth depends more upon it. Why are 99% of the self-cultivators on this forum male, and not female? It's not just wealth - but the creative, inventive force of exploration is largely male. We are driven to this from when we were still sperm competing against millions of others for our very survival. Women just don't have that same pressure placed upon them.

 

2) Footbinding originated from upper-crust Chinese women imitating Western "ballet" dancers in "pointe" shoes.

"Tang court women followed Persian and Turkish fashions, wearing dresses with tight-fitting bodices, pleated skirts, and hats with enormous veils. And it was apparently imitation of foreign toe-dancing groups that originally led upper-class Chinese women to bind their feet. At first it was just palace dancers who bound their feet slightly, like ballet dancers, to stand on their toes." - When China Ruled the Seas: The Treasure Fleet of the Dragon Throne, 1405-1433 by Louise Levathes

So, it was essentially a Tang Dynasty "boob job" that eventually spread down to lower classes. But, it was started by women and passed down by women in the name of vanity and social-climbing. To blame it on "abuse" by men would be like blaming boob jobs on "abuse" by men. BS. Sorry, but feminist revisionist history and cultural illiteracy really piss me off. As does lack of accountability and scapegoating of men for women's own choices. Did men feed into it after awhile? Sure. But, where does the buck really stop here?

 

3) We can trade counter-examples all day long. Why is it that "99%" of those who have died in battle were all men? Why is it that "99%" of those drafted for military service have all been men? Why is it that "99%" of garbage workers have all been men? Why is it that "99%" of job fatalities have all been men? You see, there are 2 sides to the coin - and the problem with feminism is that it sees only one. Fact is, you HAVE been brainwashed by feminism to carry this chip on your shoulder against men due to a distorted, 1-sided pereption of events. And I find this typical for women today.

[freeform]

how come out of the One Thousand Wealthiest People in the USA, 999 are men and 1 (Oprah) is a woman?

 

Why are 99% of the self-cultivators on this forum male, and not female? It's not just wealth - but the creative, inventive force of exploration is largely male.

 

IMO - it's because as I said - men try to build things that last... kind of metaphoric I know - but permanance is a very male characteristic - The permanance of singularity, the permanance of stillness, the permanance of immortality, the permanance of wealth, government, rules, 'practices', knowledge, even death (little boys are obsessed with death!) This is a male characteristic that the feminine is not predisposed to...

 

I dont tend to think in details with these matters, but repression of the feminine is very evident to me in many cultures... I believe the feminine is very threatening to the masculine because it's the opposite - the feminine is change and movement and unpredictability - exactly the kind of thing that destroys permanance... So as males to the try to control, in a permanant way, the feminine chaos - they bind their feet, dont give them power, create strict rules, cover their faces etc... Most strict religious peoples repress the feminine because strictness is in fact a masculine thing...

 

I actually believe that a matriarchal society is a far more comfortable way to live - 'life' is initself feminine - it's in a constant state of change, so a matriarchal society tends to work in line with that - it's permissive, unorthodox, relaxed and nurturing...

 

Some of you may think we're living in a matriarchal society, but I dont believe that to be the case - we're living out some strange mix of reversing polarities - women are becoming more masculine as a reaction to their opression and men are becoming more feminine coz they're worried, and have been drinking too mcu eastrogen in the tap water ...

 

A man needs to stand his ground and be centered in himself and a woman needs to test the man so that he knows whether he's centered in himself or some illusion... I know this is vague and metaphoric, but I find it difficult to explain it in any other way... This is the only way a balance can be struck - too feminine and we live in chaos, too masculine and we live in opression...

 

All this "testing" some of us hear in the PU groups is exactly this - women have lost fath in men, so they test our resilience, our manliness, our centeredness - and most of us have lost this and women manage to push us around, and make us supplicate, even though that's profoundly unsatisfying for them...

[Taoist81]

What ever happened to being a humanist?

[Lozen]

If I may... I think feminism started out for some really good reasons and ways of empowering women--getting the vote, equal pay for equal work, etc. but instead has gotten so extreme that women feel that they need to be more masculine to be valuable. Traditional women's work like baking, child care, etc. is considered almost sinful in some circles and many women (feminists) try to never cry, be agressive, have tons of noncomittal sex and not know how to cook. I think you can be a strong, capable woman without being a woman trying to be a man.

 

But I agree with the part about men lacking male role models, virtues and self-respect instead. All cultures used to have rites of passage but now it seems limited to certain ages where it is legal to drive, buy tobacco and porn and drink.

 

I guess that's why I'm so into Initiation Camp, because instead of the description-not-prescription writing of people like Roberty Bly they are actually teaching the skills that we have lost. I don't really know what men do during their Quests but I know that they are different when they're finished, and I know that most (not all) of the men I know outside of camp have a little boy inside them that needs to die (as a male friend of mine put it.) There is a natural agression that boys have which can be channeled when true men become protectors. Just like girls need to learn to stop being divisive, and true women bring people together, hold the whole family together. Just like trying to suppress femininity is wrong for a woman, so is giving into PC crap for a man. And I don't think being a spiritual seeker puts anyone "above" fulfilling their duty as a man or a woman.

 

As far as the guy with the chair, I don't think being rude makes him more of a man. Now there was a guy at a community meeting here who, when asked if he needed help pulling up chairs, said "I don't want to make that decision for the group." That's PC to the point of absurdity, to want a group to come with consensus over chairs. Being able to make decisions and be a leader is manly. Fighting over a chair, or arguing over whether men or women are more oppressed, isn't. And I think what many women are looking for isn't someone who won't give them a chair, but someone who is a good, strong take-charge leader. And I think it's more of a physiological thing than anything; even women that don't have children have similar instincts.

 

You can't say men and women are different and should be treated differently and then say that women and men should be treated the same in divorce and that women and men are equally violent. And I don't think the lack of propriety and respect for women and making dumb jokes about cooking makes you any more manly.

 

Just a woman's perspective... Oh, and I'm not a feminist but my fingernails are not done and I refuse to wear high heels.

[Wayfarer64]

There is a mystery here. Why do we need to defend our own sexes from the other at all?

We are somewhat different types of beings that have to come together in order to create our own kind. The natural differences are just that - Natural and like so much on this planet - this too has been tampered with to fit our wills' ideal and dream of control.

 

I agree that the worst cases of abuse are on a political level, where women have still to fight very hard to have any inkling of equality, and are still locked out of many political systems around the globe.

 

I'm not sure we are keeping in perspective just how recent any political equality is anywhere for women. So as human beings women have grabbed whatever power they can in the household where they tend to rule, and create the essence of our various cultures, raising the young to become adult.

The roles we play in western society are vastly different than traditional roles through out time.

We are in a new paradigm, that confuses us all to some degree.

 

The chair thing strikes me as just the opposite of what some here are saying. I see it as the male showing a total lack of self-respect and placing himself in the hands of the woman by not being gallant. It is she who then makes the first move on him to take the lead in the relationship. I think she got what she wanted as much as he and the dynamic of the situation was just irrelivant to her purposes. She literaly was good at thinking on her feet.

The difference being is that when men are objectified into sexual objects they still get laid- so , cool...The value of getting laid supercededs the value of self-respect sometimes... Maybe all the time for most guys.

 

In courtship it is natural for the man to defer to the woman, it actually shows self confidence to allow himself to be sub-serviant to her -this by his own will. Later he will typically assume the leadership role in the household for "outside" matters and the woman will rule the roost as it were.

But those traditions seldom exist in the West anymore and are variable everywhere.

 

It may be some sort of evolutionary change, that women have to become more aggressive in order to propogate the species -because men are just losing their gumption, being swamped by an ever-more distracting and confusing world of rapid changes and shifting values.

Edited May 13, 2007 by Wayfarer64

[Taomeow]

Yeah,

talk talk talk.

 

I doubt that your cooking skills are sublime, and I challenge you to prove it!

 

 

Um... I'm sure men, being all-around superior, can cook on the internet, but my poor lil' dumb-redhead Mensa IQ is not enough to figure out how. If only I had those extra 4 points Vortex says could be mine if I was a man! Sigh... Oh, and I thought I was only supposed to have penis envy, I forgot about the IQ envy! Now with the penis it's really easy, all I need to do is remember to envy about 50% of earth's population who are all blessed with one while the other 50% to which I shamefully belong are cursed with none. This one is a no-brainer, even for a dumb redhead. But the IQ thing is crushing my neocortex! Let's see... if I score in the top 0.2% of the earth's population, am a woman, and am therefore supposed to score lower than 50% of the said population... no, it's reeeeeally too much for my inferior cognitive abilities. Help, O ye mighty Knights In Shining Armor! Damsel in distress!!

 

Then again, I can send you a sample of a non-perishable culinary masterpiece via snail mail -- do you like Glass Strawberries? the ones that retain their shape but turn into luminous rubies in a preserve I learned to make from... oh no, from my grandmother, a woman! no, this won't work, because if you find it's really good you'll probably say a man cooked it and I'm lying to you that I did. So... no snail mail either... Now what am I to do?..

 

Maybe I can transmit my Wild Mushrooms-stuffed potatoes via my Fragrance-Emitting Qigong in the form of pure qi, can you open your meridians to receive it? I'll be sending a few items down the Stomach meridian, one up the Heart meridian, one up the Lungs meridian and one to circle the Spleen, and please let me know if you want a warming, cooling, neutral, or fiery-hot version. This will only work if you set your Digestive Fire on "high" and align the mingmen point with the North Pole Star and offer a bite to the Jade Emperor. If the Jade Emperor can taste my cooking and approves of it, he will nod three times, and then you will be able to taste it too.

 

OK... if he doesn't nod... what am I gonna do?.. Go down in history as a TV dinner eater and a liar. Mercy me!

[dunbar]

men may have 4 points on the ladies on paper - but that goes by by real quick when a hot girl is in the room. then the little brain takes over and we are toast.

[Pietro]

Um... I'm sure men, being all-around superior, can cook on the internet, but my poor lil' dumb-redhead Mensa IQ is not enough to figure out how. If only I had those extra 4 points Vortex says could be mine if I was a man! Sigh... Oh, and I thought I was only supposed to have penis envy, I forgot about the IQ envy! Now with the penis it's really easy, all I need to do is remember to envy about 50% of earth's population who are all blessed with one while the other 50% to which I shamefully belong are cursed with none. This one is a no-brainer, even for a dumb redhead. But the IQ thing is crushing my neocortex! Let's see... if I score in the top 0.2% of the earth's population, am a woman, and am therefore supposed to score lower than 50% of the said population... no, it's reeeeeally too much for my inferior cognitive abilities. Help, O ye mighty Knights In Shining Armor! Damsel in distress!!

 

Then again, I can send you a sample of a non-perishable culinary masterpiece via snail mail -- do you like Glass Strawberries? the ones that retain their shape but turn into luminous rubies in a preserve I learned to make from... oh no, from my grandmother, a woman! no, this won't work, because if you find it's really good you'll probably say a man cooked it and I'm lying to you that I did. So... no snail mail either... Now what am I to do?..

 

Maybe I can transmit my Wild Mushrooms-stuffed potatoes via my Fragrance-Emitting Qigong in the form of pure qi, can you open your meridians to receive it? I'll be sending a few items down the Stomach meridian, one up the Heart meridian, one up the Lungs meridian and one to circle the Spleen, and please let me know if you want a warming, cooling, neutral, or fiery-hot version. This will only work if you set your Digestive Fire on "high" and align the mingmen point with the North Pole Star and offer a bite to the Jade Emperor. If the Jade Emperor can taste my cooking and approves of it, he will nod three times, and then you will be able to taste it too.

 

OK... if he doesn't nod... what am I gonna do?.. Go down in history as a TV dinner eater and a liar. Mercy me!

 

No reason to be so acid, we are discussing. Plus I am not a good cook. I eat in primal diet so I was actually curious to see if someone was able to prepare anything which was inside my diet and a bit more refined than some butter and honey mixed, or a steak tartar. I might ask you back when you don't feel attacked.

[Pietro]

how come out of the One Thousand Wealthiest People in the USA, 999 are men and 1 (Oprah) is a woman?

 

Probably because men take risks, more than women. Which ultimately boils down to the fact that men have 10 times more testosterone than women. Look at even this website, it was made by a male: Sean. He was strongly opposed by many people (for most of the time with me on the farefront), and yet managed to survive, and make it fluorish, and show he could do better. This website will probably not make Sean rich, but is a risk, and it might. If you multiply the risk taking approach for half of the population you get that the most rich people might be men (and for the same reason even more men would be poor, all the ones for which the risk didn't went well).

 

If you are in the real estate business, it's not going to make much of a difference if you are man or woman. Most of the people in the 1000 are not people working for other people. But are people employing other people. Yet, while most (if not all) of the more rich person are male I was told (and I wish I had the data to prove it) that most of the richness is in female hands. Just because women have a tougher skin, and eventually inherit the family money. In my family, my friends family it is so. I suspect for most middle class people, and for all those where the family money is inherited and comes from previous generation, this is so.

 

No, I am sure women are still oppressed in some ways, and men are oppressed too. But by and large money in western countries is not one of them.

Edited May 13, 2007 by Pietro

[Wayfarer64]

I doubt that 999 to 1 figure is accurate. For instance Barbara Johnson was a client of mine and bought some art from me some years ago. I am quite friendly with her son-in-law and daughter. She did inherit the money -but she is a billionairess which I believe makes it at least 998-to- 2...Doubling the first estimate ...

 

And I also have read that women hold a huge percentage of inherited wealth in America, it was so in my family and in fact my step mother left me out of her will, thus shifting my father's money from our family to her sister's family in Japan etc... So there is no rule of thumb in these equations.

 

Many men in impoverished nations work in rich nations and send their money home to the wives. Sometimes it is a daughter sending home money... the point being wealth shifts around the globe and the paradigm chanages and power shifts mainly via purse-strings.

 

I have only known one society that claimed to be matriarchal- http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~blackwoo/research.htm

the ---Minaangkabau ... in northern Sumatra. women rule as holders of all real wealth, and they can devorce by just throwing the husbands' clothing and personal items out of the door..What is remarkable is that this culture exists inside the Islamic culture pervasive in Ache, (the large northern region of Sumatra). It is of course much older than the Islamic culture that over-spread the area with arab traders and then arab navies taking over slowly but pretty pervasively-the whole archapeligo...

 

So the battle rages on globally as well as in cyber space -Taomeow yr cooking sounds pretty damn good to my taste-buds. But there again we can find reasons for contention between the sexes as most of the worlds' reknowned chefs have been male...But most of the cooks are women.

 

Males just need to vie for supremacy -it is in our nature at least more so then in women. Margaret Thatcher aside - I have found most women to be less contentious than most men. There are of course many exceptions to any statistical norm...

Edited May 13, 2007 by Wayfarer64

[三江源]

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Edited March 17, 2015 by 三江源

[Wayfarer64]

Hi Cat-

This reluctance to express opinions just doesn't ring true to me...The expressing of opinions seems pretty feminine in my experience.

One of the nastiest jokes I've heard relates to this (mis?)perception.

 

"What do 99% of all battered wives have in common?"

Punch line:(pun intended) - "They didn't know when to shut up."

 

As repugnant as the idea behind these matters being used to express humor is & as usual in humor it is the nugget of truth that makes it funny to some... It speaks volumes (more punning here) about how we interact.

 

In most cases of contending for /keeping power those who ain't got it just can't win without shifting the paradigm...