If a Time Travel Machine is Built in the Future, Then..

[Uroboros]

Ah, very good!

 

Definitions vary through ages and traditions, but I would say kairos is an aspect of chronos which corresponds to the yi of the Yi Jing ( which is spelled here the Pinyin way to differentiate from the personal pronoun "I" it can otherwise be mistaken for in the Wade-Giles and more widespread spelling of the I Ching). "Yi" or kairos is "a kind of time," "the weather of the times," with a beginning and an end, and a transition to a different kind, a different cosmic moment. Apparently the authors of the Yi Jing understood its nature similarly, i.e. as times acted upon, not the regular changes of the unfolding of the cosmic process but the kind of changes in the motor of the cosmic time machine you can cause by throwing in a monkey wrench. Some traditions view this monkey wrench as "the mind of god in action, at the time chosen," others, as the mind of goddess impeded, her machinery of life eternal split into irregular and haphazard attempts at Conception, Growth, Fruition -- and artificially skewed toward Consummation... Fruitful subject!

 

Are you saying that Kairos is an aspect within Chronos?

 

What is the monkey wrench? Individual consciousness?

 

If the mind of god is all things, which it must be to be in and of all things, then how could it be a monkey wrench?

 

OH, are we talking about different gods/ aspects of god?!

 

So much to ponder here....Jeez, Taomeow. Just open that can of snake worms, why dontcha!?

[Celestial]

Chrono Trigger anyone?

 

[Thunder_Gooch]

Chrono Trigger anyone?

 

One of my favorite games of all time!

 

Daggerfall too.

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

You guys are smart.

 

To my far flung future perfected self I hurled this cry.

 

Not my will but thy Will be done.

 

Then merry hell broke loose.

 

Paging John Titor did the Trick,

In time to Lay the Final Brick.

...

Edited December 26, 2013 by Captain Mar-Vell

[BaguaKicksAss]

..that means we Always had a Time Travel Machine.

 

 

We always had the ability to Time Travel

 

And that's a Game Changer - depending on what can be altered with Time Travel

 

 

 

So, a Tyrannosaurus shot with a hunting rifle - check.

 

..

[h.uriahr]

It makes sense to me that if you invent time travel in the future then you can go forward but only as far back as the original date of invention.

 

[Nungali]

I can time travel - watch this ......

 

 

.....

 

 

.....

 

 

 

ta daa !

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2013 by Nungali

[runner11]

From what I understand, from the perspective of physics time travel into the past is not possible. This is because of the obvious paradox. If you went back in time and killed your parents then you wouldn't be born. Except you were born. Most physicists will say that only time travel into the future is possible.

 

If time travel into the future occurs, its not like everything that you skipped didn't happen. It did happen, you just missed it. You would go into a machine and probably fly at a rate of speed close to the speed of light, and time dilation would occur. The increase in speed will cause spacetime to bend, causing time to slow down for you compared to everyone else on earth.

 

So say for example you get into your time machine, and you travel for 200 years through space, and return back to earth. Lets say you are traveling at such a high rate of speed that from your point of view you were only on the ship for 2 days. It didn't just seem like 2 days, it was 2 days, for you. You slept 1 night, you ate dinner twice, etc. You only aged 2 days. People on earth experienced time differently during those 2 days. Spacetime didn't change for them, so for them it was 200 years. They died, and their children died. Then you came back to earth.

 

When you look at it this way, you see that its not some mystical thing. Its based on hard science, and theoretically is absolutely possible. It is only a matter of time before time travel into the future occurs. Of course, once you travel to the future you can't change your mind and go back. That time already happened, but you were busy flying around in your time machine.

[Taomeow]

You are talking about the kind of time that is linear, flows in one direction, and exists in a universe that is solitary. This is not what modern science thinks anymore.

 

You can go back and kill your grandfather if you like, and instead of a paradox you will get a bifurcation, which in its turn gives rise to another one and another and another -- the act of killing your grandfather will explode like a supernova into countless multiverses. In one of them the you who killed your grandfather does not exist yet was able to perpetrate this murder because for this particular universe it's business as usual to "edit" its own parameters, to oscillate back and forth between existences and nonexistences, with some of them becoming out of sync and overlapping. But in another, a few hundred thousand fishes, the posterity of that fish your grandfather helped you catch when you were nine, don't exist, yet they do exist in the newly created universe where your grandfather was killed before you were born AND before he took you fishing. And in their turn, each one of these fishes alters history by eating or not eating the tadpoles who will or will not become frogs who will or will not be shipped to France and will or will not give the prime minister a bad case of indigestion that will cause his temper to flare up at a politically crucial moment, provoking a war, which will or will not pull in more countries and then escalate into WWIII. So in the universe where WWIII is not happening, the prerequisite is your grandfather being taken out so his nonexistent grandson can't interfere with that fish that is destined to decimate the frog population and save the world.

.

[BaguaKicksAss]

You are talking about the kind of time that is linear, flows in one direction, and exists in a universe that is solitary. This is not what modern science thinks anymore.

 

You can go back and kill your grandfather if you like, and instead of a paradox you will get a bifurcation, which in its turn gives rise to another one and another and another -- the act of killing your grandfather will explode like a supernova into countless multiverses. In one of them the you who killed your grandfather does not exist yet was able to perpetrate this murder because for this particular universe it's business as usual to "edit" its own parameters, to oscillate back and forth between existences and nonexistences, with some of them becoming out of sync and overlapping. But in another, a few hundred thousand fishes, the posterity of that fish your grandfather helped you catch when you were nine, don't exist, yet they do exist in the newly created universe where your grandfather was killed before you were born AND before he took you fishing. And in their turn, each one of these fishes alters history by eating or not eating the tadpoles who will or will not become frogs who will or will not be shipped to France and will or will not give the prime minister a bad case of indigestion that will cause his temper to flare up at a politically crucial moment, provoking a war, which will or will not pull in more countries and then escalate into WWIII. So in the universe where WWIII is not happening, the prerequisite is your grandfather being taken out so his nonexistent grandson can't interfere with that fish that is destined to decimate the frog population and save the world.

.

 

This makes sense .

[silent thunder]

I experienced something while living in NYC that falls into the 'time bubble' category of strangeness.

 

I was walking south through Manhattan one Fall afternoon, past city hall on my way to the Brooklyn Bridge.

In the area in front of City Hall there is quite a bit of open space where the natural rolling hills hadn't been scraped, developed and covered with buildings, suddenly in the middle of walking and for a couple steps I was standing in pre-modern NYC and staring around me at the rolling hills covered in trees changing colors! Full hallucination, audio, olfactory, complete reality shift for about 5 breaths. No buildings, couple of walking paths, and trees in full fall colors slowly shedding leaves.

 

I blinked and was surrounded by the 'now' again.

[Taomeow]

Ah, so I'm not alone! Happens to me on occasion, it does. And Manhattan it was too where it happened for the first time! All of Manhattan disappeared as I was circumventing it on a bus headed to New Jersey. A fog descended, at first all noises were suddenly hushed, then the fog lifted and took all the skyscrapers, bridges, cars, power lines, lampposts, all of it -- as though it just dissolved. And I saw a pristine and breathtakingly beautiful island, basalt rocks and huge trees and colorful flowers and hills covered in carpets of blueberries, and animals and people, and a different sun, so white, no yellow hue... Then the bus took me out of range and I didn't know till the next day what I would find when I come to work (I worked in Manhattan at the time) -- will my place of employment at 3rd and Madison be a forest now, and my work, to scoop a salmon or two out of a brook for lunch and to gather a few bulbs of wild garlic to season it with?.. But no, it was "business as usual" again...

 

I have this theory that Manhattan, standing on a solid basalt rock, almost crystalline in its hardness and perhaps some of its properties too, may be better than many other places in terms of recording the images of everything that went on there for as long as it stood there -- crystals are superb at recording stuff (all our civilization runs on quartz because of that), and perhaps you and I somehow got into a mode where they started transmitting too... And have you noticed that Manhattan is like an outgrowth of crystals -- its structure mimics and follows that very pattern, while other places that came to be built in a similar fashion merely mimic Manhattan. A very powerful place... power that can be used, power that can be abused, all kinds. Palpable.

[silent thunder]

Ah, so I'm not alone! Happens to me on occasion, it does. And Manhattan it was too where it happened for the first time! All of Manhattan disappeared as I was circumventing it on a bus headed to New Jersey. A fog descended, at first all noises were suddenly hushed, then the fog lifted and took all the skyscrapers, bridges, cars, power lines, lampposts, all of it -- as though it just dissolved. And I saw a pristine and breathtakingly beautiful island, basalt rocks and huge trees and colorful flowers and hills covered in carpets of blueberries, and animals and people, and a different sun, so white, no yellow hue... Then the bus took me out of range and I didn't know till the next day what I would find when I come to work (I worked in Manhattan at the time) -- will my place of employment at 3rd and Madison be a forest now, and my work, to scoop a salmon or two out of a brook for lunch and to gather a few bulbs of wild garlic to season it with?.. But no, it was "business as usual" again...

 

I have this theory that Manhattan, standing on a solid basalt rock, almost crystalline in its hardness and perhaps some of its properties too, may be better than many other places in terms of recording the images of everything that went on there for as long as it stood there -- crystals are superb at recording stuff (all our civilization runs on quartz because of that), and perhaps you and I somehow got into a mode where they started transmitting too... And have you noticed that Manhattan is like an outgrowth of crystals -- its structure mimics and follows that very pattern, while other places that came to be built in a similar fashion merely mimic Manhattan. A very powerful place... power that can be used, power that can be abused, all kinds. Palpable.

 

Palpable power really sums up my first experience getting off the plane in NYC.

It hit me like a wave and the waves just kept coming. My wife and I lived there for seven years.

Had more than a few exceptional experiences there...

[Mark Foote]

"Gödel and Einstein subsequently developed a strong friendship, and were known to take long walks together to and from the Institute for Advanced Study. The nature of their conversations was a mystery to the other Institute members. Economist Oskar Morgenstein recounts that toward the end of his life Einstein confided that his "own work no longer meant much, that he came to the Institute merely...to have the privilege of walking home with Gödel.

 

...In 1951, Gödel demonstrated the existence of paradoxical solutions to Albert Einstein's field equations in general relativity. He gave this elaboration to Einstein as a present for his 70th birthday. These "rotating universes" would allow time travel and caused Einstein to have doubts about his own theory. His solutions are known as the Gödel metric."

 

(from Wikipedia, "Kurt Godel")

[Mark Foote]

"Because of the homogeneity of the spacetime and the mutual twisting of our family of timelike geodesics, it is more or less inevitable that the Gödel spacetime should have closed timelike curves (CTC's). Indeed, there are CTCs through every event in the Gödel spacetime. This causal anomaly seems to have been regarded as the whole point of the model by Gödel himself, who was apparently striving to prove, and arguably succeeded in proving, that Einstein's equations of spacetime are not consistent with what we intuitively understand time to be..." (Wikipedia, Godel_metric)

 

Hawking and Ellis picture of expansion and reconvergence of light emitted by an observer on the axis of symmetry:

 

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

...

[h.uriahr]

So there I am hummin along at an exact 88mph when this looney toon says to me " 88mph and squat unless you got the 1.21 jigawatts needed for time travel " so then I decided to give up ....and worry about today...not tomorrow