Why Do We Exist?

[ChiDragon]

We're existed but not by choice.

[Thunder_Gooch]

I was going in another direction.

 

What MorePieguy is pointing at is where is the ego from

[Marblehead]

I was going in another direction.

You can't go anywhere MPG, you don't exist. Just "be".

[adept]

Why do we exist ?

 

I dunno 'bout the rest of you but I exist because my mother and father got together and produced me.

Simple really.

People get waaaaay too glassy-eyed and metaphysical on these subjects.

[Stosh]

I don't care why I exist , but I'd like to suggest that y'all probably exist for my benefit. PM me and Ill let you know where you can use some improvement in that regard.

[Marblehead]

I don't care why I exist , but I'd like to suggest that y'all probably exist for my benefit. PM me and Ill let you know where you can use some improvement in that regard.

Based on that post I would guess that you would go along with the saying, "I am the center of my universe."

[3bob]

Our place and why we exist is to be "stewards" in the largest sense or meaning that that word can have - if and when such is proven out,

[Thunder_Gooch]

I am not sure I agree with this.

 

Imagine for a moment, that all possible worlds (both past and future) exist all as real as the one you experience now.

 

Everything exists, all possibilities exist, all just as real as the reality you inhabit.

 

All of these moments populated by minds as real as your own.

 

All that is occurring is minds moving in and out of different realities based on the choices they make, but never actually creating anything as it existed prior to and independent of their observation.

 

So even if we were good stewards to the earth and fellow man for instance, such a reality existed already and continues to exist even if we choose to destroy the earth and ourselves.

 

 

 

 

 

Our place and why we exist is to be "stewards" in the largest sense or meaning that that word can have - if and when such is proven out,

Edited September 1, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[Marblehead]

Well, I'm glad you still exist MPG. We don't always agree but it is nice talking with you none-the-less.

[3bob]

MPG,

Taking into account that you often give Buddhist quotes and sources what you are saying above implies to me that when the historic Buddha said, "may all beings be happy" really amounted to a hollow and meaningless sentiment from his (dharmic) steward like position since nihilism or a variation of same is the ultimate truth - before which all beings are powerless.

Edited September 1, 2013 by 3bob

[Thunder_Gooch]

I exist only in the sense you can experience me, I am no more real than a dream, or a character in a video game.

 

 

Well, I'm glad you still exist MPG. We don't always agree but it is nice talking with you none-the-less.

[Marblehead]

I exist only in the sense you can experience me, I am no more real than a dream, or a character in a video game.

If you say so but I place more value on you than that.

[Thunder_Gooch]

Sure I would like to live in a world without any being suffering, that wouldn't mean worlds with immense suffering would cease to exist however. All experiences are happening simultaneously, from the most absurd levels of pleasure and ecstasy, to the most extreme pain and suffering imaginable. All just as "real" as our world now.

 

 

 

MPG,

Taking into account that you often give Buddhist quotes and sources what you are saying above implies to me that when the historic Buddha said, "may all beings be happy" really amounted to a hollow and meaningless sentiment from his (dharmic) steward like position since nihilism or a variation of same is the ultimate truth - before which all beings are powerless.

Edited September 1, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[Thunder_Gooch]

I'm not unique, the same is true for everyone even if they choose to believe otherwise.

 

 

If you say so but I place more value on you than that.

[Marblehead]

I'm not unique, the same is true for everyone even if they choose to believe otherwise.

 

 

 

Agreed. Yea!!! We agreed on something again!

[3bob]

I'm a unique being in all of creation, although having much in common with other beings.

[Thunder_Gooch]

I'm a unique being in all of creation, although having much in common with other beings.

You are not the only you, there are an infinite number of minds just as real as your own existing now in this present moment, all who share your identity, ego, memories, etc.

 

You are not unique in any sense of the word.

 

Each of these minds makes choices and navigates to different realities all equally as real as our own, everything that could possibly happen already has and exists just as real as this present moment.

 

All ideas, all minds, all egos, all histories, all memories, all books, all movies, all thoughts, everything, all of it, the whole shebang... is as real as what you now experience.

 

No thought we could ever think was created by "us" it existed prior to our observation of it.

Edited September 1, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[Everything]

I think we exist, as in a variety of people, because I think it is inevitable that we shall reach eternal harmony, together, as one, as we.

 

To appreciate the unique and complentary nature of each individual in relation to oneself or even another.

 

I personally exist for many reasons, depending on the moment I find myself in. What keeps me eager to become more of who I am and continually calls me forth towards greater expansion. These are my reasons for existing. I am in search for cookie, allways. I love the journey, because I know there is allways another cookie to be found. Hooray for cookie power! I LOVE COOKIE!

Edited September 1, 2013 by Everything

[Thunder_Gooch]

 

 

I personally exist

You personally believe you exist.

[Marblehead]

You personally believe you exist.

But the cookie don't exist 'cause he ate it.

[Everything]

You personally believe you exist.

Oh, thanks for clarifying that for me and everyone who may read. I appreciate XoXoXo!

 

Excuse me, I ate too many cookies today. But you are too kind!

[3bob]

Cookies are good but what about my carrot cake and 2% organic milk?

 

Within creation I exist relatively, uniquely and as many; beyond creation I exist singly and absolutely.

 

Om

Edited September 1, 2013 by 3bob

[RongzomFan]

I know we are made up of energy and atoms and 99.999% of atoms are empty. But the incredible thing is that, this physical world feels real. Why do we exist? Why is it that we can communicate with each other. I know that this world is an "illusion" and just temporary, but it's just mind boggling that people can reincarnate and their past lives mirror their current life, the people they were friends or family with are with them in this current life. The karma is transferred to this life. It's just amazing...And also space, what is this so called space/ universe. If we take a matter the size of a piece of pebble from space, that weighs more than the size of earth which is just mind blowing. And the universe goes on and on and on forever? And it just so happens we have gods, Bodhisattva, deities, who created existence? And nirvana, being free from suffering, don't have to reincarnate anymore, but then where does the soul go? How is it that hell and heaven exist? And if there is space, where is the space of consciousness?

 

Here are some quotations from 2 top books, Nagarjuna's Reason Sixty and Center of the Sunlit Sky:

 

Nagarjuna said "If I had any position, I thereby would be at fault. Since

I have no position, I am not at fault at all."

 

Aryadeva said "Against someone who has no thesis of “existence,

nonexistence, or [both] existence and nonexistence,” it is not possible to

level a charge, even if [this is tried] for a long time."

 

"I do not say that entities do not exist, because I say that they originate in dependence. “So are you a realist then?” I am not, because I am just a proponent of dependent origination. “What sort of nature is it then that you [propound]?” I propound dependent origination. “What is the meaning of dependent origination?” It has the meaning of the lack of a nature and the meaning of nonarising through a nature [of its own]. It has the meaning of the origination of results with a nature similar to that of illusions, mirages, reflections, cities of scent-eaters, magical creations, and dreams. It has the meaning of emptiness and identitylessness."

-Candrakirti

 

"Nagarjuna taught , "bereft of beginning, middle, and end," meaning that the world is free from creation, duration, and destruction."

-Candrakirti

 

"Once one asserts things, one will succumb to the view of seeing such by imagining their beginning, middle and end; hence that grasping at things is the cause of all views."

-Candrakirti

 

"the perfectly enlightened buddhas-proclaimed, "What is dependently created is uncreated."

-Candrakirti

 

"Likewise, here as well, the Lord Buddha’s pronouncement that "What is dependently created is objectively uncreated," is to counteract insistence on the objectivity of things."

-Candrakirti

 

"Since relativity is not objectively created, those who, through this reasoning, accept dependent things as resembling the moon in water and reflections in a mirror, understand them as neither objectively true nor false. Therefore, those who think thus regarding dependent things realize that what is dependently arisen cannot be substantially existent, since what is like a reflection is not real. If it were real, that would entail the absurdity that its transformation would be impossible. Yet neither is it unreal, since it manifests as real within the world."

-Candrakirti

 

Nagarjuna in Mūlamadhyamakakārikā 1.1. states:

"Not from themselves, not from something other,

Not from both, and not without a cause-

At any place and any time,

All entities lack arising."

 

Buddhapālita comments (using consequentalist arguments which ultimately snowballs into Tibetan prasangika vs. svatantrika):

"Entities do not arise from their own intrinsic nature, because their arising would be pointless and because they would arise endlessly. For entities that [already] exist as their own intrinsic nature, there is no need to arise again. If they were to arise despite existing [already], there would be no time when they do not arise; [but] that is also not asserted [by the Enumerators].

 

Candrakīrti, in ''Madhyamakāvatāra'' VI.14., comments:

"If something were to originate in dependence on something other than it,

Well, then utter darkness could spring from flames

And everything could arise from everything,

Because everything that does not produce [a specific result] is the same in being other [than it]."

 

Candrakīrti, in the ''Prasannapadā'', comments:

"Entities also do not arise from something other, because there is nothing other."

 

Nagarjuna in ''Mūlamadhyamakakārikā'' 1.3cd. states:

"If an entity in itself does not exist,

An entity other [than it] does not exist either."

 

Candrakīrti, in the ''Prasannapadā'', comments:

"Nor do entities arise from both [themselves and others], because this would entail [all] the flaws that were stated for both of these theses and because none of these [disproved possibilities] have the capacity to produce [entities]."

 

Nagarjuna, in ''Mūlamadhyamakakārikā'' VII.17., states:

"If some nonarisen entity

Existed somewhere,

It might arise.

However, since such does not exist, what would arise?"

 

Nagarjuna, in ''Mūlamadhyamakakārikā'' VII.19cd., states:

"If something that lacks arising could arise,

Just about anything could arise in this way."

 

Candrakīrti, in ''Madhyamakāvatāra'' VI.151., comments:

"It is not asserted that a chariot is something other than its parts.

It is not something that is not other, nor does it possess them.

It does not exist in the parts, nor do the parts exist in it.

It is neither their mere collection nor the shape—thus is the analogy."

[doc benway]

I exist only in the sense you can experience me, I am no more real than a dream, or a character in a video game.

Another aspect of sunyata that is worth of deep consideration is the fact that it is very closely related to the non-dual experience. It is not just that things are empty of inherent nature, it is also that they are empty of inherent (read: independent) nature. Meaning: not other = non-dual. Hence sunyata and pratityasamutpada are two faces of the same coin.

Similarly, karma is the third side of the same coin which teaches that not only things, but actions are empty of inherent nature, all are arising dependent on other actions.

 

Sunyata teaches us that who we are is empty of independent nature (empty of inherent existence).

Pratityasamutpada teaches us that what we are is empty of independent nature (dependent origination).

Karma teaches us that where we are is empty of independent nature (interdependence of cause and effect).

[RongzomFan]

empty of inherent nature, it is also that they are empty of inherent (read: independent) nature.

 

Sunyata teaches us that who we are is empty of independent nature (empty of inherent existence).

 

This is just Tsongkhapa.