Cultivators and Kultivators

[Taomeow]

Well, I mostly agree, with some reservations, that an established unbroken lineage, a true teacher (not necessarily "spiritual" because this word is too broad and too vague -- e.g. my true taiji teacher has no idea that he's "spiritual," but he absolutely is -- to a much greater extent than most people who use this word as a catch-all for whatever they're into), and the useful (at least) teachings and techniques, rather than something one just happens to like or to have chanced upon (and has no frame of reference to compare to something more genuine), are among good prerequisites for good cultivation. I am of the same opinion as everybody who's anybody in the "spiritual history" of humankind until some 150 years ago when it was decided that we have "progress" (by German reformers of education who pioneered this idea, unheard of ever before, that our technological advances mean WE are advancing, getting smarter and all-around better at being human. There's never been an iota of proof, this was just postulated as an axiom, then enforced as the blueprint for all educational premises everywhere. But I digress.) The opinion, as I was saying, that the farther we move away from the source, the more we degrade, hence the quest for coming back to the original state (however it is understood -- it is, like most other degraded things, mostly mis-understood by most systems).

 

John Dee, e.g., asserted that the greatest scientist of all time was Adam, since he had the advantage of immediate proximity to the mind of god. While I'm not sure about Adam and his god, I basically believe the same thing. To wit, that true science, true wisdom, true spirituality become available if you move as far back as you can (no, not to the accursed times that are usually brought up toward the conclusion that ours is the best of all ages, not the medieval drudgery and cruelty and slavery -- these are already modern times, the morning of the same day of the night of the soul we're living -- much, MUCH farther back.) So, the often discussed lineage vs. no lineage koan is solved based on what one believes is true -- progress, which makes lineages unnecessary and obsolete, or removal from, and loss of touch with, true wisdom of being, which makes finding an unbroken thread leading one back there crucial and all-important.

 

As for "what counts as Cultivation in general..." Um... ...I would say it's a quest to overcome certain limitations, toward some states of being that are free of these limitations -- a quest that must be established on a solid platform of realism which in its turn must rest on the back of the magical turtle whose shell is inscribed with the pattern of Hetu, and the magical dragon-horse with the Luoshu markings on her back.

 

Edited August 29, 2013 by Taomeow

[MooNiNite]

The true cultivators make the best kultivators

[Antares]

So, the often discussed lineage vs. no lineage koan is solved based on what one believes is true -- progress, which makes lineages unnecessary and obsolete, or removal from, and loss of touch with, true wisdom of being, which makes finding an unbroken thread leading one back there crucial and all-important.

 

I believe that "lineage" means the line (direction, connection) back to the Primordial Being (state of mind) and this is not any sort of ideas based just on one's beliefs system or just any systematization of techniques but first of all is based on state of mind and level of energy (vibrations) of certain teacher(s) and this is what passing down to a disciple. Do you think this transmission possible without authentic "lineage"? It's quite interesting word which consists of two words "line" and "age". It kinda points out on something what has been proved by time to be effective method. I have met few people who said that they were spiritual being initiated in lineage but they scarcely could prove it by their deeds. Sometime "lineage" is distorted - people adding something new on the top of authenticity; sometime they count lineage as something what is passed down technically e.g. some movements, breath patterns, philosophical ideas and so on. But if there is no realization it would not be authentic and would not be the authentic Lineage. More over that there might be "spiritual" realization but there are different levels in it and only authentic teacher can pin it down exactly. Many initially authentic teachings which led to high level realization were distorted to the levels of lower realizations keeping the ideas, some techniques in itself but without real masters with real spiritual realizations. Taichi is good example. Nowadays it is mostly system akin to calisthenics and you scarcely can find authentic taichi teacher. The same goes for Shaolin arts for example. People referring to Bodhidharma and stating that their system is the same what he taught but if you watch all these systems you will see how they greatly differ and sometime not even similar. And far not every one out of those people have Bodhidharma's realization but stating that they maintain lineage which coming from BD .

Edited August 29, 2013 by Antares

[三江源]

people in love with themselves doing (or talking about, even more often) the art,

hhmmmmmmmm. puffmonsters is a good word for them, imo.

[i am]

I don't necessarily think I can "reinvent the wheel", but I don't believe that because some enlightened guy or gal connected with the essence way back when that if and only if I get a "transmission" that can be traced back to that person, will I then and only then be on a path.

 

The essence of that transmission ought to be floating around out there, for all to connect with. And it's not human-based.

 

But I'd agree that without a teacher who actual has real experience to guide you, it's a lot easier to get trapped in kultivation.

Edited August 29, 2013 by i am