If you practice Zhan Zhuang, for how long do you stand?

[Vitalii]

If you practice Zhan Zhuang, for how long do you stand?

[Seeker of Wisdom]

I've been doing horse stance. Generally I do about 7mins a bit higher than thighs parallel to the floor, and with thighs parallel to the floor only 1-2 mins. I have a long way to go.

[i am]

Yeah this depends HUGELY on how low of a stance we're talking about. I'm not doing crazy low horse stance, but definitely bent knees and sitting position.

[DeadDragon]

Anyone have recommendations for how to build strength efficiently for horse stance? Is it just a matter of going for as long as possible every day in a comfortable position while meditating? Or can / should one practice it whenever there's a chance to stand, going as deep down as possible? Typically I thought with exercise you should practice it every other day, push your muscles to the limit then give them a rest, but perhaps this is different or someone can provide other suggestions or other exercises that one can do at home without weights?

[ChiDragon]

1. Anyone have recommendations for how to build strength efficiently for horse stance?

 

2. Is it just a matter of going for as long as possible every day in a comfortable position while meditating? Or

 

3. can / should one practice it whenever there's a chance to stand, going as deep down as possible?

 

4. Typically I thought with exercise you should practice it every other day, push your muscles to the limit then give them a rest, but perhaps this is different or someone can provide other suggestions or other exercises that one can do at home without weights?

 

1. There is no special recommendations but just practice. The strength will build efficiently after a prolong practice of the stance.

 

2. Yes.

 

3. As a beginner, one should never go too deep but to a comfortable position until the muscles get use to the stress which has never been applied to the legs before.

 

4. One should never push the muscles to the limit to avoid over strain to the muscle at the beginning. One should start easy on the muscles, then slowly applying more stresses to the muscles by bending the knees progressively until one can do the 90 degree stance for a long period of time.

[joeblast]

and learn how to make it into a breath practice, use reverse breathing properly and that will vastly extend the amount of time you can spend in 90º stance. it doesnt show itself quite so much in the normal zz posture but when you get to the deep stance, its imperative if you are to keep it going for long.

 

and of course, mind your posture and alignment, you're only going to hurt yourself if that is not correct.

Edited August 29, 2013 by joeblast

[thelerner]

As I've mentioned before, I like to do standing practice listening to a series of elemental meditations called the Archaeous series, free at Abardoncompanion.com. Listening to good music can help. Also relaxing into it, as you get tired instead of a mental toughness battle, strive to relax more.

 

As with most things, steady practice is the best route.

[ChiDragon]

If you practice Zhan Zhuang, for how long do you stand?

 

Do you agree that Tai Ji practitioners do not require to do Zhan Zhuang but optional......???

Edited August 31, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Vitalii]

I think many schools of Taiji have own opinion about that

 

In our school it is considered that practice of Zhan Zhuang in Taiji helps to make a structured and holistic body. Taiji practitioners must feel 5 small bows + 5 medium bows + 1 large bow. Usually practitioners do Zhan Zhuang for about 30 minutes.

Practitioners need to keep this result in all further Taiji movements.

 

In Zhan Zhuang for Neidan, inner work is different from that in Taiji. In addition, practitioners do Zhan Zhuang from 30 to 120 minutes.

[Vitalii]

Funny Zhan Zhuang

 

[ChiDragon]

The funny part is that the guy with a cigarette in his mouth......

[GreytoWhite]

Where did you find that picture of me practicing?

 

I wish I could find the video of a Yiquan master that had been holding chengbao stance for four hours with his arms while walking around - one of his students brought him a cigarette at one point in the video. He then switched to shi li so he could smoke.

 

Whenever someone asks me why I still smoke and practice my only response is, "I learned three styles of kung fu in two different cigar shops, never stopped me before." Although I have cut back from a pack a day to a pack a week, trying to get to that no cigarettes at all stage but life... is stressful.

[Andrei]

Do you agree that Tai Ji practitioners do not require to do Zhan Zhuang but optional......???

 

I do not agree with that, Taiji without Zhan Zhuang is useless, IMO. And it does not matter how slow, how fast, how long, how low you do the taichi, is just that zhan zhuang is putting you on a different level in terms of internal energy. If you don't do zhan zhuang, is not internal no matter what you do.

[Silent Answers]

Anyone have recommendations for how to build strength efficiently for horse stance? Is it just a matter of going for as long as possible every day in a comfortable position while meditating? Or can / should one practice it whenever there's a chance to stand, going as deep down as possible? Typically I thought with exercise you should practice it every other day, push your muscles to the limit then give them a rest, but perhaps this is different or someone can provide other suggestions or other exercises that one can do at home without weights?

 

When I first got back into these practices my legs couldn't handle it at all...in fact first session I was dying, especially in this humid nightmarish weather.

 

There were a few forms that really had an amazing affect on my HRS. I'm not sure if they are Bagua specific but they involve very low squats and scooping actions. I can't really describe it online, so I'd recommend having a look around for Bagua forms other than circle walking (although circle walking would be beneficial too). Perhaps some of the more seasoned BG practitioners here will be able to give you more details.

 

PS. Try not to put the pressure on your knees so much. Using your thighs and hips to support most of your weight will go a long way...again Bagua is all about taking advantage of waist action so it's handy in many ways.

Edited June 20, 2014 by Silent Answers

[ChiDragon]

I do not agree with that, Taiji without Zhan Zhuang is useless, IMO. And it does not matter how slow, how fast, how long, how low you do the taichi, is just that zhan zhuang is putting you on a different level in terms of internal energy. If you don't do zhan zhuang, is not internal no matter what you do.

 

Thanks for your honest opinion. Well, I wouldn't say it is useless in that sense. The reason that I have asked the question was because I have been practice the Yang style Taiji. This particular style is having the legs bend or stand on one leg, most of the time, while holding the body weight and moving slowly. IMO That is almost equivalent to Zhan Zhuang or have the same effect anyway. However, sometimes, when I don't feel like doing Taiji, I do Zhan Zhang instead for the compromise.

Edited June 20, 2014 by ChiDragon

[GreytoWhite]

The Chen village peeps didn't practice zhan zhuang until Feng Zhiqiang came to town. There is a practice of taiji zhuang which I was taught and in some lineages they'll call it "stance loading."

 

First hold a posture from the taiji form in stillness. The teacher should then check the structure of your stance somewhat similar to what is being done at about 2:10 below.

 

 

Once the stance has been checked for "leaks" the teacher should then start applying pressure in a slow, and directional manner into various parts of the person's body. After the teacher feels that the structure is sufficient with pressure then they will have you move into the next stance. Stance transition is important in taiji because that's where the jin lies. Eventually there isn't transition to another stance but rather the teacher will have the student hold stance under pressure and just tell them to apply jin.

[GreytoWhite]

I was just providing an alternate perspective and something that's a little different than lone standing. I also practice zhan zhuang in a solitary manner and find that it is extremely valuable to hold more "generic" postures to explore potential movements and aspects of unified movement.

[RiverSnake]

The Chen village peeps didn't practice zhan zhuang until Feng Zhiqiang came to town. There is a practice of taiji zhuang which I was taught and in some lineages they'll call it "stance loading."

 

First hold a posture from the taiji form in stillness. The teacher should then check the structure of your stance somewhat similar to what is being done at about 2:10 below.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tg7gNsTub1k

 

Once the stance has been checked for "leaks" the teacher should then start applying pressure in a slow, and directional manner into various parts of the person's body. After the teacher feels that the structure is sufficient with pressure then they will have you move into the next stance. Stance transition is important in taiji because that's where the jin lies. Eventually there isn't transition to another stance but rather the teacher will have the student hold stance under pressure and just tell them to apply jin.

 

I actually had the opportunity to train Silat with the gentlemen in the video. Lots of fun. Those jump punches are serious cardio. It's amazing how well he moves at his age.....Hope I can be as vigorous if I'm still kickin by then.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

 

 

 

[thelerner]

The Chen village peeps didn't practice zhan zhuang until Feng Zhiqiang came to town. There is a practice of taiji zhuang which I was taught and in some lineages they'll call it "stance loading."

 

First hold a posture from the taiji form in stillness. The teacher should then check the structure of your stance somewhat similar to what is being done at about 2:10 below.

Once the stance has been checked for "leaks" the teacher should then start applying pressure in a slow, and directional manner into various parts of the person's body

We'd do similar testing of stances in Ki-Aikido. Actually there was levels of pushing. First, just push, then push with ummph and follow through. Harder would be Fake, stopping an inch from contact then a strong push. Then pushing in a up and over manner. Hardest would be holding the hand an inch or two away and waiting until there attention waivered, then a strong push.

[GreytoWhite]

Kuzushi on contact.

[soaring crane]

Nice discussion :-)

[SonOfTheGods]

Mingmen perpendicular to floor- send your Yi deep down through the Earth- Inhale through YongQuan.

Make sure the Kua are open- makes a huge difference for low stance.

[Vitalii]

If you practice Zhan Zhuang, for how long do you stand?

 

When I started practicing Zhan Zhuang, my Shifu told me to do it from 5.00 untill 7.00 a.m. every day.

I stood for 2 hours every day, and sometimes 3-4 hours pauseless.

I often stood outdoors, even when the temperature was below zero.

In the beginning, it was very hard to stand, but when the circulation of my Qi became better, my body never felt discomfort.

[soaring crane]

When I started practicing Zhan Zhuang, my Shifu told me to do it from 5.00 untill 7.00 a.m. every day.

I stood for 2 hours every day, and sometimes 3-4 hours pauseless.

 

that is impressive

[spatha]

 

I stood for 2 hours every day, and sometimes 3-4 hours pauseless.

I heard that it is not recommended practicing Zhan Zhuang for more than two hours. it's not good. It may be harmful.