Zhan Zhuang as meditation during puja.

[Jainarayan]

I didn't want to hijack http://thetaobums.com/topic/31411-if-you-practice-zhan-zhuang-for-how-long-do-you-stand/ but it piqued my interest again in zhan zhuang, but with an added twist.

 

I have a hard time incorporating traditional meditation (whatever that is) into my puja, spending time at my shrine to feel the deities' energies, after I say the prayers, wave the light, ring the bells, etc. I found this little blurb http://www.naturalawareness.net/standing.pdf that made me think "why not start to learn the postures and techniques, and practice them as part of my puja as my deity meditation?"

 

The .pdf says

 

 

Feel the inside of your body: feet, pelvis, belly, chest, head. Align come from within, rather than trying to line body parts up.

 

Feel yourself breathing in and out: feel the sensations and movements of the breathing body as it

balances, sways, adjusts. Invite your belly, back, shoulder blades, arms, hands, legs, and feet to

participate in breathing in and out. Breathing~moving~attending together. Naturally balancing,

deeply relaxing.

 

This is the essence of beginner's meditation. Thoughts?

[Seeker of Wisdom]

Perhaps do zhan zhuang visualising a wrathful deity, like Kali, hacking at the areas stressed by your zhan zhuang and removing negative qualities in the form of black sludge. Japa could easily be included there too.

 

Although if you are aiming for samadhi, visualising a simple still image of a deity while sitting or lying down would be a more effective samadhi/bhakti package combo.

[Jainarayan]

Perhaps do zhan zhuang visualising a wrathful deity, like Kali, hacking at the areas stressed by your zhan zhuang and removing negative qualities in the form of black sludge. Japa could easily be included there too.

 

Although if you are aiming for samadhi, visualising a simple still image of a deity while sitting or lying down would be a more effective samadhi/bhakti package combo.

 

Thanks. If you don't ask, you don't learn. That's a great idea of visualizing Maa Kali, or even Sri Shiva, since he is the destroyer of negativity, and the creator of the new. Nama japa could definitely fit in. I would not have thought of that because Vishnu (Krishna) is my ishtadevata, whom I could meditate on as you suggested for samadhi and/or bhakti. Unlike other Hindus (and I am definitely unlike other Hindus ), I don't have a problem with using different mantras.

[Vitalii]

Perhaps do zhan zhuang visualising a wrathful deity, like Kali, hacking at the areas stressed by your zhan zhuang and removing negative qualities in the form of black sludge. Japa could easily be included there too.

 

I think it is a bad idea.

Jainarayan, It is better not to mix different methods, especially if you don't know them well.

[Jainarayan]

 

I think it is a bad idea.

 

Jainarayan, It is better not to mix different methods, especially if you don't know them well.

That's actually a good point. Nama japa is to draw close to one's yidam or ishtadeva, and ultimately receive darshan. It might be a strain to control the mind and body during zhan zhuang and concentrate on the deity.

[doc benway]

 

I didn't want to hijack http://thetaobums.com/topic/31411-if-you-practice-zhan-zhuang-for-how-long-do-you-stand/ but it piqued my interest again in zhan zhuang, but with an added twist.

 

I have a hard time incorporating traditional meditation (whatever that is) into my puja, spending time at my shrine to feel the deities' energies, after I say the prayers, wave the light, ring the bells, etc. I found this little blurb http://www.naturalawareness.net/standing.pdf that made me think "why not start to learn the postures and techniques, and practice them as part of my puja as my deity meditation?"

 

The .pdf says

 

 

This is the essence of beginner's meditation. Thoughts?

Standing meditation can be a very valuable addition to your practice.

For me there tends to be more of a somatic component as more of the awareness and neural resources need to attend to maintaining posture. It is also a wonderful medicine for a variety of illnesses and injuries and a great rehabilitation method.

 

My advice would be to start with simple, basic, natural standing posture.

Start for a few minutes a day and slowly build up until you are able to stand for an hour.

There's little advantage to focusing on more complicated or advanced postures early on.

The body will begin to naturally adopt more advanced postures if you allow it to lead you.

Enjoy!

[Jainarayan]

Standing meditation can be a very valuable addition to your practice.

For me there tends to be more of a somatic component as more of the awareness and neural resources need to attend to maintaining posture. It is also a wonderful medicine for a variety of illnesses and injuries and a great rehabilitation method.

 

My advice would be to start with simple, basic, natural standing posture.

Start for a few minutes a day and slowly build up until you are able to stand for an hour.

There's little advantage to focusing on more complicated or advanced postures early on.

The body will begin to naturally adopt more advanced postures if you allow it to lead you.

Enjoy!

 

Thanks. I do intend to do just the simple, basic, natural standing posture as you describe it. From this link http://www.naturalawareness.net/standing.pdf I'm thinking it would be:

 

 

Let your weight rest over soft feet and flexible ankles. Let your knees be soft, flexible, slightly

bent -- not locked straight, nor bent too far. Let your weight sink down through the legs and feet

into the ground.

From the knees down, feel roots going deep into the ground. From the knees up, feel energy

rising into the sky.

Let the body balance over soft feet, relaxed. Let tension fall down through the legs into the

ground.

Arms may want to rise into a circle in front of your belly or chest. Let them rise! To compensate

for the arms rising, the body may sink a little and shift back a little, as if starting to sit down on a

big beach ball. You’re moving into the first position of standing like a tree.

Let fingers be a little apart, as if there were little balls balls between the fingers.

Smiling, relaxing, resting, whole body expanding and contracting as it breathes in and out.

Start with short sessions: 5 minutes, then 10, then 15 minutes. Build slowly over weeks and

months. After 100 days, you begin to know how to practice, and the practice will start to work on

you.

[Jainarayan]

Yet one more question semi-related to this from the The Inquisitive One:

 

Backstory: I was a powerlifter back in the day, pre-surgery for lumbar and rotator cuff injuries, ironically not from the gym. Anyway, I have always absolutely hated working my legs via squats and other leg work, but I did gain size and strength. It was a love-hate relationship. Now my approach is different... strength, stamina, conditioning, athletic physique.

 

The Question: Is standing meditation, especially horse stance a good substitute for traditional leg work, or at least an adjunct to machine leg extensions, hamstring curls, walking and/or jogging? The gym has a safety squat machine (not a Smith machine, another padded and back support kind), but I am absolutely burned out on traditional leg work. I really prefer not to do it. The days of tree trunk legs and a squatter's ass are back in the Cretaceous.

 

Please say "oh yes absolutely!" (it would help if you mean it) that Zhan Zhuang is an effective substitute ... I implore you! I beg you on bended knee (OK, a bit melodramatic there ).

[joeblast]

oh yes, absolutely

 

but I still hit my squat/leg press plenty often

[Jainarayan]

Man, doing circle walking, half lotus, and tai chi burns my legs up. So yes Zhan Zhuang is a great substitute. Builds your root and legs. If you want strong legs, any internal martial art and standing meditation will do the trick.

 

Actually many internal martial arts do not support weightlifting since the extra muscle mass can slow someone down and inhibit the movements done in the internal martial arts. For example, spirals show all throughout tai chi in contrast to the linear movements of football, basketball, ect. Because those sports are linear, weight lifting helps out greatly. although, ballet is taught to the athletes to increase flexibility.

 

Very good, thanks. I can see why the extra weight and the movements in restricted planes of motion can impede one's progress. The extent of my weightlifting is going to be conditioning and "toning" (ye gods, I'd be hanged, drawn and quartered at bodybuilding.com for using that word ). I need to lose about 25-30 lbs, most of it is fat, but some will be muscle, which I'm perfectly fine with.

[Jainarayan]

A student of a Bagua Teacher I know once told me that if you want abs. Hit the cardio then lift weights. He said that he and the people he knew just did only cardio till the fat was gone.

 

so for cardio, you could do walking meditation chanting Namo Amituofo. I did that when I was walking home from campus today. No matter how much my head hurt and lightheaded I was, I kept reciting Amituofo over and over again.

 

It depends on where the weight is too. I'm 180 but I can still move smoothly and I don't even look like I weigh that much. But if I were to gain about 50 more pds, that would definitely inhibit the movement.

 

I've thought about doing just cardio for a while; I'm dieting also... Weight Watchers. I lost 30 lbs in 6 months in 2012, then I fell off the wagon. But I'm back to it. I prefer walking as my cardio, either outdoors or on a treadmill. Sometimes I break into a trot, but not often. I used to be a runner, but at 200 lbs it's a killer. I walk at a pace of about 3 mph 2-3 % incline on the t'mill. What would be the pace for walking meditation, and length of time? These are all new think-outside-the-box concepts for me, breaking the old gym rat paradigm, which I'm ready for. Twenty years of traditional weight training is more than enough. I like body weight exercises, and believe it or not, kettlebell swings.

[hydrogen]

If your meridine channels are not open enough or you're not very flexible, it's very hard to get into the "correct" position.

 

Due to my shoulder blockage, though I cleared it so much already, I found it tough to get qi flow to my hands in the basic hands down Z.Z. position. The Tai chi hands, golden bridge hands and a few hands mantras actually help the qi flow much better.

 

I suggest you start with one leg Z.Z. (the roost standing on one leg in Tai Chi) or Tree poster in yogi.

[dwai]

 

I didn't want to hijack http://thetaobums.com/topic/31411-if-you-practice-zhan-zhuang-for-how-long-do-you-stand/ but it piqued my interest again in zhan zhuang, but with an added twist.

 

I have a hard time incorporating traditional meditation (whatever that is) into my puja, spending time at my shrine to feel the deities' energies, after I say the prayers, wave the light, ring the bells, etc. I found this little blurb http://www.naturalawareness.net/standing.pdf that made me think "why not start to learn the postures and techniques, and practice them as part of my puja as my deity meditation?"

 

The .pdf says

 

 

This is the essence of beginner's meditation. Thoughts?

Hi jai Narayan

 

Puja is different from dhyana.

In Puja one does external offerings of pushpam, deepam, gandham etc (flowers, light, incense, etc) while at the same time internally letting go of the senses of touch, sight, smell, etc (pratyahara).

 

Puja is done per the guidelines of the Veda (if one is a sanatani) and is the basis of balance in the universe (yata pinde, tata brahmande - as in the microcosm, thus in the macrocosm) - rtam.

 

It is unfortunate that we don't have the ability to learn these things from elders, teachers for the most part these days.

 

Dhyana is what zhang zhuang is. Sure, Puja can also take us into meditative state, but the purpose of puja is as I mentioned.

 

Best,

 

Dwai

[BaguaKicksAss]

Yet one more question semi-related to this from the The Inquisitive One:

 

Backstory: I was a powerlifter back in the day, pre-surgery for lumbar and rotator cuff injuries, ironically not from the gym. Anyway, I have always absolutely hated working my legs via squats and other leg work, but I did gain size and strength. It was a love-hate relationship. Now my approach is different... strength, stamina, conditioning, athletic physique.

 

The Question: Is standing meditation, especially horse stance a good substitute for traditional leg work, or at least an adjunct to machine leg extensions, hamstring curls, walking and/or jogging? The gym has a safety squat machine (not a Smith machine, another padded and back support kind), but I am absolutely burned out on traditional leg work. I really prefer not to do it. The days of tree trunk legs and a squatter's ass are back in the Cretaceous.

 

Please say "oh yes absolutely!" (it would help if you mean it) that Zhan Zhuang is an effective substitute ... I implore you! I beg you on bended knee (OK, a bit melodramatic there ).

 

Do Bagua! lol

 

The horse stance is amazing for legs!

 

Btw, Zhan Zhuang is technically asana. As long as you don't move in it (you aren't supposed to anyways).

[ChiDragon]

The horse stance is amazing for legs!

Btw, Zhan Zhuang is technically asana. As long as you don't move in it (you aren't supposed to anyways).

 

As soon you move slowly, then you are into Tai Ji...................

[BaguaKicksAss]

How I do such things is I'd setup the puja part, and do that for a bit. Then do my ZZ in that space with the incense still going, to be with Deity and that energy while in ZZ, but still with the main focus on the puja.

[Jainarayan]

How I do such things is I'd setup the puja part, and do that for a bit. Then do my ZZ in that space with the incense still going, to be with Deity and that energy while in ZZ, but still with the main focus on the puja.

 

That's pretty much the thought I have. I'm reading The Teachings of Ramana Maharshi. He points out the importance and benefits of meditation, especially nāma japa. That Zhan Zhuang is technically āsana, it fulfills two purposes as I see it... physical discipline and āsana for meditation since I can't do any cross-legged āsana (back surgery and residual nerve issues).