Chronic fatigue from doing qigong

[CrunchyChocolate555]

I know this is probably unheard of, or at least not really common, but I just noticed that qigong was causing (or at least contributing to) some bouts of extreme fatigue and sleepiness I was experiencing in the last few years.

 

About 3-4 months ago I was doing qigong perhaps 2-3 hours a day and constantly felt lethargic as hell, unmotivated, and all I wanted to do was sleep.

 

I stopped everything cold turkey for a couple of months and although felt my body getting much tenser, I had tons of energy, felt great, and could do whatever I wanted. I was also much happier.

 

Fast forward to 2 weeks ago, I went back on a steady qigong regimen (out of sheer curiosity), averaging 1 hour a day, and I am again feeling lethargic, barely got out of bed this morning, and feel all around irritable and crappy.

 

So my question is: is this some kind of detox reaction? Should I just stop and forget about qigong, or keep going to hopefully one day break through whatever is going on?

 

 

[BaguaKicksAss]

Some forms of qigong actually take as much out of you as running does, but in a different sort of way. 2-3 hours is a lot! Even an hour every single day is a lot if not worked up to it. Also I'd say get in a few sessions with someone in person to check out your qigong, and discuss this with them to see if there is anywhere you might be going wrong sort of thing.

[Uroboros]

I know this is probably unheard of, or at least not really common, but I just noticed that qigong was causing (or at least contributing to) some bouts of extreme fatigue and sleepiness I was experiencing in the last few years.

 

About 3-4 months ago I was doing qigong perhaps 2-3 hours a day and constantly felt lethargic as hell, unmotivated, and all I wanted to do was sleep.

 

I stopped everything cold turkey for a couple of months and although felt my body getting much tenser, I had tons of energy, felt great, and could do whatever I wanted. I was also much happier.

 

Fast forward to 2 weeks ago, I went back on a steady qigong regimen (out of sheer curiosity), averaging 1 hour a day, and I am again feeling lethargic, barely got out of bed this morning, and feel all around irritable and crappy.

 

So my question is: is this some kind of detox reaction? Should I just stop and forget about qigong, or keep going to hopefully one day break through whatever is going on?

 

My knowledge and opinion is based on my own experience. Which is limited since I am but a baby.

 

OK!

 

Here is what I have for you, Chocolate!

 

1. Possibly the system you are practicing is not best for your body. I did a form of 8 Brocades and it did nothing for me. I started learning Wild Goose and right away I felt changes and improved way before I even learned the whole first form!

 

So, the system/ style may not be right for you. Also, it is possible to practice in an incorrect manner and problems can be created there.

 

2. I have gone thru periods of total exhaustion. where I start to feel "stronger" and then suddenly, Im weak. It feels like im going backwards! I am really not, though. During these periods I may not even feel "strong" enough to practice the whole forms. So, I wait. I rest.

 

Then, afterwards, the changes reach a point where I can start to train again. And I end up having new things happen internally. Such as, my body showing itself to me in new ways. Feeling things I did not before. All good.

 

There was a good 5 month period where I was wiped. I FINALLY got to a solid hour of training a day, with consistent quality.

 

Then a 5 month period of barely being able to do 10 or 20 minutes a day before I felt exhausted. Most of the time, I could not do anything! It sucked!

 

Letting my body do that, though, was vital. Afterwards, I was far "stronger" and my system had changed in subtle yet powerful ways.

 

I would recommend listening inward. Listen to your body. To your self.

 

Thats what I got! Hope this helps!

 

Peace

[Uroboros]

Some forms of qigong actually take as much out of you as running does, but in a different sort of way. 2-3 hours is a lot! Even an hour every single day is a lot if not worked up to it. Also I'd say get in a few sessions with someone in person to check out your qigong, and discuss this with them to see if there is anywhere you might be going wrong sort of thing.

 

Very true! It has taken me over a year to reach a somewhat consistent hour a day training!

 

An hour is tough! hehe. Especially if I am "in" it.

 

The rule is always comfort, though. Willing-ness, not willful-ness.

 

70 percent rule.

 

maximum effort without strain. In a relaxed manner. It must feel good.

 

There was a period when I was learning where I would practice for an hour or two a day.

 

That burned me out fast! i crashed hard.

 

My "ego" nature wanted to do allot! More, more! harder, faster!

 

My system was not ready for that, though. Being gentle helps a huge amount.

 

I have made far more..harmonious progress by being gentle and staying within the 70 percent. Making sure I feel good.

 

Otherwise, I end up expending more then I am gaining. No good.

 

Slow, steady progress with bunches of cyclical bouncing about!

 

Peace

[寒月 Hanyue]

I know this is probably unheard of, or at least not really common, but I just noticed that qigong was causing (or at least contributing to) some bouts of extreme fatigue and sleepiness I was experiencing in the last few years.

 

About 3-4 months ago I was doing qigong perhaps 2-3 hours a day and constantly felt lethargic as hell, unmotivated, and all I wanted to do was sleep.

 

I stopped everything cold turkey for a couple of months and although felt my body getting much tenser, I had tons of energy, felt great, and could do whatever I wanted. I was also much happier.

 

Fast forward to 2 weeks ago, I went back on a steady qigong regimen (out of sheer curiosity), averaging 1 hour a day, and I am again feeling lethargic, barely got out of bed this morning, and feel all around irritable and crappy.

 

So my question is: is this some kind of detox reaction? Should I just stop and forget about qigong, or keep going to hopefully one day break through whatever is going on?

 

It's called energetic collapse and can be triggered in numerous ways. Over doing certain energy practices will certainly do it. Its kinda like hitting the gym really heavy and then not being able to move because of muscle soreness.

 

"There is a big difference between losing your energy through a habit of collapse and having a consistent energetic connection with earth. One leads to fatigue."

 

I do feel that depedning on your habits, certain 'qigong' may exacerbate a pre-condition, in the same sense physical activity can. Given the massive variances available in approaches and methods of qigong practice, it may simply be a case of 'not the right fit for you', at least at this point in time.

 

We all have 'energy-body' "habits" same as we have physical body ones. To me, learning qigong is to become aware of these habits and to lessen or drop the dysfunctional ones.

 

Best,

[CrunchyChocolate555]

-

 

 

 

It's called energetic collapse and can be triggered in numerous ways. Over doing certain energy practices will certainly do it. Its kinda like hitting the gym really heavy and then not being able to move because of muscle soreness.

 

"There is a big difference between losing your energy through a habit of collapse and having a consistent energetic connection with earth. One leads to fatigue."

 

I do feel that depedning on your habits, certain 'qigong' may exacerbate a pre-condition, in the same sense physical activity can. Given the massive variances available in approaches and methods of qigong practice, it may simply be a case of 'not the right fit for you', at least at this point in time.

 

We all have 'energy-body' "habits" same as we have physical body ones. To me, learning qigong is to become aware of these habits and to lessen or drop the dysfunctional ones.

 

Best,

Edited October 14, 2013 by CrunchyChocolate555

[ChiDragon]

So my question is: is this some kind of detox reaction? Should I just stop and forget about qigong, or keep going to hopefully one day break through whatever is going on?

 

I cannot answer your question before you tell me what and how you were doing in your Qigong. However, if you are doing it correctly, there will be a detox reaction taken place inside your body. Please tell me about your practice....???

[Jetsun]

If it doesn't help don't do it, listen to your body not what other people tell you

[Uroboros]

Thanks for the advice, guys!

 

I dig what you guys are saying about qigong being very demanding, but this very much feels like a nervous system burnout, and not a physical one.

 

I can easily work-out with weights, hike, do martial arts, for hours at a time no problem. Sure, I'll be a bit sore/tired after, but that passes quickly, often the same day.

 

But what I get from qigong is totally different. It gives me a terrible sleepy/apathetic/indifferent feeling where I can barely get out of bed, and constantly feel like I'm going to fall asleep! It's nothing like physical fatigue I get from physical training.

 

So how long *does* this phase last? Because the last time I was consistent with qigong, I practiced daily for up to 3 months at a time and it never went away, it only got worse until I decided to quit.

 

For what it's worth, I the only two systems I have worked with is Spring Forest Qigong and Flying Phoenix Qigong. FPQG is the one I'm doing right now.

 

For me, there is a BIG difference between "external" activities and "internal". As you say, I can go for a walk and such, feel fine. Do QiGong? Overloads me fast! haha.

 

Staying within the comfort range helps your system adjust and heal over time. The key words, Over and Time.

 

This is Gong. Skill Over Time. We often want it now, now now! Yet, these things build and cultivate over years and years!

 

So, RELAX! hehe. Just take your time. Listen to where your system is now. What is your current state and capabilites?

 

Sounds like you keep going over them. So relax. Go slower. Do less. See how you feel, then.

 

Maybe your system cannot handle a daily practice, yet. Maybe you are doing WAY too much per day.

 

 

And it hasnt had that effect for you, so the usual 'supposed' is not relevant to you personally.

 

Best to pay attention to what is.

 

As Cat says, its not doing what you think it should do. Your system may have "problems" within it that the QiGong is healing.

 

Yet, your system can only take so much before going beyond relaxation into stress. Does not like that, often.

 

Getting help from a clinical perspective has saved my bacon! Luckily for me, my teacher does clinical work.

 

You may want to find a good healer. Whatever modality speaks to you.

 

There is no set time limit for how long a phase should or will last. Thats important to understand.

 

You are a unique individual. As such, your condition and progress will be, in many ways, uniquely yours.

 

Sometimes we have to go backwards to go forwards. We are not really going backwards, it just may seem like that.

 

Peace

[BaguaKicksAss]

Hmmm, are you clenching your sphincter a bit during practice? That is a common loss of qi thing that can really tire someone out. It all leaks out! I was making that mistake for a couple of months, and was surprised at the difference.

 

I have personally found going to the gym easier on my CNS than some qigong, just because some qigong goes deeper.

 

I would say do 5 minutes per day, then after a couple of weeks 10 mins, then up to 15 after a month... I had a student like that, that was all he could do (he's up to an hour now after a year and a half and doing awesomely)

 

However it sounds like something isn't working quite right there for you, there's so much we can't see over the internet, can't see where and how the energy goes with you, what your energy system looks like, if you are somehow turning it all into hard qigong (that would be way too long if it's hard qigong)... and etc.

 

Also, make sure you aren't rushing ahead past step 1 :>.

[寒月 Hanyue]

OK, I understand. But isn't qigong supposed to have the opposite effect of boosting your qi and preventing energetic collapse ?

 

Your logic is based on fallacy and the marketting that gets thrown around, to be a little direct and blunt.

 

There are two related points here.

 

One. Every system has a point at which it can collapse if pushed. The energy-body is no different. However since most are not directly aware of their energy-body, they tend to approach the practice of qigong without that awareness. Some over do it and cause a system collapse resulting in fatigue.

 

In a similar vein to the people who like to feel the effort, burn and fatigue from a "good workout" there are people who will wear such badges of honour in energy circles. Usually with the proviso that to get 'better' you have to 'go through' it. To each their own.

 

There are also indigenous practices that intentionally cause energetic collapse to help break the spirit from the body for various reasons.

 

Detoxing is different. Detoxing will cause fatigue as the body expunges the toxins. Certain practices that really get the circulation and blood going, couples with a strong massage of the organs can cause a heavier detox. This is not what I am talking about regarding 'energetic collapse'.

 

Two. Depending on who you are, and your energy habits, certain practices done a lot may cause a system collapse. Some may not want to hear that but it is the way of things. If I was to attempt to run 10k I know I'd have a physical body collapse!

 

As with most physical activity most people do not care about what the state of their body is before attempting that activity, nor the possible effect it may have on them. It is why running is still one of the most innjury related activities. But try pointing out to a keen runner that their gait and pre-conditions are damaging them. Trust me on that, even when they come to you in clinic with complaints they still can't 'hear' you.

 

Energy-body activity is no different. While one person can go to a qigong class and say do 3 hours of mico-cosmic orbit practice and experience nothing but elation, someone else will find it begins to move and brings up much stagnation and will feel pretty crap fairly quickly, another will get the same benefit as the first person from 30 minutes.

 

Knowing when enough is enough for YOU is often ommitted, people then get the impression "well they said it was 'good' for me, so if I do MORE, it's even better.". But everything has a point of diminishing returns, and going beyond that can lead to collapse and fatigue. You mentioned doing 2-3 hours.

 

The opposite to all the above is causing bouts of 'mania' and insomnia that is as though the person has drunk a pint of esspresso! Doing this, usually will lead to a backlash of fatigue.

 

Qi-gong = energy work management

 

Best,

Edited August 30, 2013 by snowmonki

[Aetherous]

Drink a gallon of water a day...this will help get rid of any negative detoxing symptoms.

Get a wide array of whole food sources for all possible nutrients. One thing: it might help to have 2 oranges or 1 grapefruit mixed with one fresh organic egg yolk first thing in the morning.

Someone mentioned wild goose qigong...that one may be better for you if you're in this primarily for general well being. That's just what I intuitively feel.

It's a common occurrence that when you stop practices (messing with the CNS), the body heals itself and you feel better. Nothing wrong with taking breaks...rest is extremely important.

[Uroboros]

Drink a gallon of water a day...this will help get rid of any negative detoxing symptoms.

 

Get a wide array of whole food sources for all possible nutrients. One thing: it might help to have 2 oranges or 1 grapefruit mixed with one fresh organic egg yolk first thing in the morning.

 

Someone mentioned wild goose qigong...that one may be better for you if you're in this primarily for general well being. That's just what I intuitively feel.

 

It's a common occurrence that when you stop practices (messing with the CNS), the body heals itself and you feel better. Nothing wrong with taking breaks...rest is extremely important.

 

Wild Goose is amazing. For me, atleast. It may not work so well for everyone.

 

I would definitely stay way from learning it from dvds or books. Far too many subtleties that can change how things move/ work.

 

Find a good teacher if you are interested. It could be worth it for you.

 

Was for me.

 

Peace

 

Edit- I forgot! Drinking a gallon of water, may, for some people "drown" their body. For some its good, for others its bad.

 

As always, listen to your self! Your body is EXTREMELY intelligent!

Edited August 30, 2013 by Uroboros

[CrunchyChocolate555]

-

Your logic is based on fallacy and the marketting that gets thrown around, to be a little direct and blunt.

 

There are two related points here.

 

One. Every system has a point at which it can collapse if pushed. The energy-body is no different. However since most are not directly aware of their energy-body, they tend to approach the practice of qigong without that awareness. Some over do it and cause a system collapse resulting in fatigue.

 

In a similar vein to the people who like to feel the effort, burn and fatigue from a "good workout" there are people who will wear such badges of honour in energy circles. Usually with the proviso that to get 'better' you have to 'go through' it. To each their own.

 

There are also indigenous practices that intentionally cause energetic collapse to help break the spirit from the body for various reasons.

 

Detoxing is different. Detoxing will cause fatigue as the body expunges the toxins. Certain practices that really get the circulation and blood going, couples with a strong massage of the organs can cause a heavier detox. This is not what I am talking about regarding 'energetic collapse'.

 

Two. Depending on who you are, and your energy habits, certain practices done a lot may cause a system collapse. Some may not want to hear that but it is the way of things. If I was to attempt to run 10k I know I'd have a physical body collapse!

 

As with most physical activity most people do not care about what the state of their body is before attempting that activity, nor the possible effect it may have on them. It is why running is still one of the most innjury related activities. But try pointing out to a keen runner that their gait and pre-conditions are damaging them. Trust me on that, even when they come to you in clinic with complaints they still can't 'hear' you.

 

Energy-body activity is no different. While one person can go to a qigong class and say do 3 hours of mico-cosmic orbit practice and experience nothing but elation, someone else will find it begins to move and brings up much stagnation and will feel pretty crap fairly quickly, another will get the same benefit as the first person from 30 minutes.

 

Knowing when enough is enough for YOU is often ommitted, people then get the impression "well they said it was 'good' for me, so if I do MORE, it's even better.". But everything has a point of diminishing returns, and going beyond that can lead to collapse and fatigue. You mentioned doing 2-3 hours.

 

The opposite to all the above is causing bouts of 'mania' and insomnia that is as though the person has drunk a pint of esspresso! Doing this, usually will lead to a backlash of fatigue.

 

Qi-gong = energy work management

 

Best,

Edited October 14, 2013 by CrunchyChocolate555

[Uroboros]

Haha of course one could put forth 100 percent. Like for example, the Chan School which leads to sudden enlightenment. They meditate all day and sometimes all night. That's 100 percent. You never really know what your threshold is till you push past it. A lot of people stop at like 20 percent then say they're at 70 percent. Bullshit, you could hold than zhan zhuang stance for hours. You just don't realize it.

 

I only get the best out of a session during the strenuous parts of it. The part where pain becomes really bad and mind wanders. But then it starts to snap and I reached a point where I never reached before.

 

That is 100 percent! haha. Whoa, intense.

 

When I say 70 percent, I mean, staying relaxed/ comfortable so your nervous system and energy systems stay "open" and relaxed.

 

I experience far better "gains" when I do that. Sure, I could go far more! I did that when I first started.

 

The down side was pricey, though.

 

Its a different way then some. Full effort without strain. Willing-ness, not willful-ness.

 

Im glad you get allot of benefit from your practice! That is wonderful!

 

Peace

[BaguaKicksAss]

Noted.

 

I should say however, that this particular system states that more = better, and that one cannot "overdo it" with this type of qigong..

 

Also, fwiw (and it isn't worth much, since it has nothing to do with it), but I'm a big, healthy, muscular guy, with tons of yang energy (albeit yang energy that is not circulating very well), so it's really a weird thing.

 

I'll try to back off and keep my practice at 30 minutes and see what happens..

 

Here's an interesting analogy... say for instance there's this guy at my local gym who benches more than most, can run 5k without noticing, and works construction. Extremely healthy. Also lots of yang energy. However if he has something off with his channels or somewhere, say a blockage, as well as having a excess condition (which can stagnate qi just as much as a deficiency), if he were to do an hour and a half per day of qigong instead of lifting and cardio at the gym it would likely do him in. Most especially if he started out with an hour and a half. It would be like having something stuck in garden hose. If you run water slowly through it for a bit it might just clear up, or at least the water will likely get through. If however you leave the water running for an hour, especially turned up high, you are going to likely get a hose which looks more like a balloon when you get back . That is my understanding of things at this time.

 

Well also don't worry about what the label says on the bottle (of vitamins) or cover of a DVD.... if we were all the same and worked the same way there would have only ever been one qigong system, one healing modality, and only 10 types of medicine in the world. Personally I give something new a month, if it doesn't work after that, I move on, or adjust as needed, or go find some expert. (anyone want a bottle of adult gummy vitamins mostly unused? lol)

 

Also, the person who posted saying he couldn't run 10k, that's only cause he hasn't worked up to it and slowly trained for it. And a majority of running injuries are from overtraining (or wrong shoes for that particular person) unfortunately. I'm liking these running analogies... I went and had some professional training when I was doing running, to make life easier on me; it really helped, and no more shin pain thereafter either. It seems silly to get pro advice on something like running, but it really did make a difference.

[Uroboros]

yeah I get what you mean. Bruce Frantzis has it that you train to your 70% potential. What a load of crap. You know damn well he went past that when he trained lol.

 

Yeah like Shakyamuni Buddha told his musician disciple, finetune your mind like a musical instrument's string.

 

Yes, BKF has a good explanation of it. My teacher explains it differently. Mostly the same.

 

He most likely did go past it for awhile. I dont know what his 70 percent was, though.

 

Although, as you train and become stronger, your 70 percent limit moves.

 

hehe, like a musical string..not too tight, not too loose....Wonderful analogy.

[Truth Seeker]

I'll try to back off and keep my practice at 30 minutes and see what happens..

That's what I was going to recommend. I see that ChiDragon responded and obviously he's the one you should consult with. Perhaps doing a lot of that particular qigong and a lot of physical exercise are sending mixed messages to your body and you simply need to adjust the mix. I can also concur though that 3 hours is a lot of time on qigong, and it may just be overloading your energy system. So while perhaps "more is better" for some people, you may have pushed it too far too fast. Hope it evens out for you, let us know.

[Dzogchen]

Are you eating anything or exercising before or soon after? Are you engaging in any sexual activity or masturbation?

 

Are you using the restroom soon after? Are you drinking cold water before or soon after? Or showering/bathing?

 

Drink a gallon of water a day...this will help get rid of any negative detoxing symptoms.

 

I would stay away from too much water soon before or after you practice, especially cold water. Give it at least 30 minutes, 60 if you can and then try some yin-yang water.

 

If the answer to all the questions above are "NO", then do you have a strong third eye? There were times after practicing that I would be so open and full of pure energy that it would be easy for me to have OBE's, Astral Project, or get instantly tired, fall asleep and have vivid dreams. Like I was being pulled into the Etheral realm, Astral plane, ect...

 

I would try some Ajna chakra balancing and also Muladhara grounding exercises directly after your practice and see how you feel.

Edited August 31, 2013 by Dzogchen

[Bubbles]

Hi CrunchyChocolate555,

 

What kind of physical exercise/activity do you have?

[Friend]

Fast forward to 2 weeks ago, I went back on a steady qigong regimen (out of sheer curiosity), averaging 1 hour a day, and I am again feeling lethargic, barely got out of bed this morning, and feel all around irritable and crappy.

 

I would ask you to find out the time for exercise < 1hour where you not feeling lethargic.

Else....sleep more. Dont expect you can do what you could do before. When you do Qigong you have find out what changes and

act with common sense about it. Also you can try another Qigong.

[C T]

Also after meditation it is normal to be tired and to take a nap.

 

Meditation, in its true sense, is meant to awaken, not tire the practitioner out or put him or her into some kind of stupor.

 

If one is tired then rest, not meditate. Its better to sit (meditate) when one has been refreshed.

 

Best to do short sessions, with short breaks, rather than attempting to sit for a stretch in one go. Even experienced meditators could hit a flat zone when a session drags whereby a kind of imposing happens. I personally find sitting for half-hour sessions, with 3 minute breaks the most ideal. Keep it natural, keep it simple, keep it short is my advice.

Edited August 31, 2013 by C T

[SonOfTheGods]

I know this is probably unheard of, or at least not really common, but I just noticed that qigong was causing (or at least contributing to) some bouts of extreme fatigue and sleepiness I was experiencing in the last few years.

 

About 3-4 months ago I was doing qigong perhaps 2-3 hours a day and constantly felt lethargic as hell, unmotivated, and all I wanted to do was sleep.

 

I stopped everything cold turkey for a couple of months and although felt my body getting much tenser, I had tons of energy, felt great, and could do whatever I wanted. I was also much happier.

 

Fast forward to 2 weeks ago, I went back on a steady qigong regimen (out of sheer curiosity), averaging 1 hour a day, and I am again feeling lethargic, barely got out of bed this morning, and feel all around irritable and crappy.

 

So my question is: is this some kind of detox reaction? Should I just stop and forget about qigong, or keep going to hopefully one day break through whatever is going on?

stay hydrated, take cayenne, barefoot outdoors in the sun, full moon too,.. keep your semen.

Edited August 31, 2013 by SonOfTheGods

[skydog]

It might help to wear different colour clothing.

 

For me, the colour blue, makes my energy too blue creating tiredness, for me colours like Gold, Orange, brown, white, a bit of yellow, green are better for my energy,

 

Maybe things like tidy environment, making sure you are keeping up to date with chores etc can affect your energy eg being grouned.

 

Also Ive often been getting a bit tired in the afternoon Sat Kriya pretty much wakes me up instantly as do PC Muscle exercises.

 

I will post some pictures of these things tommorow but here is Sat Kriya.

 

[skydog]

as friend said if you feel like taking a nap, take a nap.