Syria

[Thunder_Gooch]

Edited September 6, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[Marblehead]

Is that Tiny Tim's son?

[gendao]

Chinese, Russian warships and Marines heading to Syrian waters

Russia & China have now proven to become the new relatively sober global voices of reason - which is probably why the rogue US/NW0 war machine has been on a constant smear campaign against them... Because they remain major hedges of resistance to them implementing full world 5-0 state domination.

Russian President Vladimir Putin urged President Barack Obama on Saturday not to rush into a decision on striking Syria, but to consider whether strikes would help end the violence and be worth the civilian casualties they would inevitably cause.

 

Speaking for the first time about the suspected chemical weapons attack on Aug. 21, Putin also questioned whether Syrian government troops should be held responsible. He said it would make no sense for them to carry out such a devastating attack while they were on the offensive.

 

The Russian leader said he was convinced the suspected chemical attack was a provocation aimed at drawing the U.S. military into Syria's civil war, implying he believed the attack was carried out by the Syrian rebels.

 

If the Americans have evidence proving the involvement of President Bashar Assad's regime, they should present it to the United Nations inspectors and the U.N. Security Council, he said. "If there is evidence it should be presented," Putin said. "If it is not presented, that means it does not exist."

 

Putin's foreign policy adviser complained Friday that Russia had not seen the U.S. intelligence that Washington insists proves the Syrian government was responsible for the attack.

 

In addressing Obama, Putin said he was speaking to him not as the U.S. president but as a holder of the Nobel Peace Prize.

 

"We have to remember what has happened in the last decades, how many times the United States has been the initiator of armed conflict in different regions of the world," Putin told Russian journalists, including from state television, covering his visit to Vladivostok in the Far East. "Did this resolve even one problem?"

 

He urged Obama to reflect on the results of the U.S. military intervention in Afghanistan and Iraq "before taking a decision to carry out air strikes that will bring casualties, including among the civilian population."

Putin said it was "ludicrous" that the government of Syrian President Bashar Assad — a staunch ally of Russia — would use chemical weapons at a time when it was holding sway against the rebels.

 

"From our viewpoint, it seems absolutely absurd that the armed forces — the regular armed forces, which are on the offensive today and in some areas have encircled the so-called rebels and are finishing them off — that in these conditions they would start using forbidden chemical weapons while realizing quite well that it could serve as a pretext for applying sanctions against them, including the use of force," he said

 

"If there is evidence that chemical weapons have been used, and used specifically by the regular army, this evidence should be submitted to the U.N. Security Council," said Putin, a former officer in the Soviet KGB. "And it ought to be convincing. It shouldn't be based on some rumors and information obtained by intelligence agencies through some kind of eavesdropping, some conversations and things like that."

 

He compared the evidence presented by Washington to false data used by the Bush administration about weapons of mass destruction to justify the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

 

"All these arguments turned out to be untenable, but they were used to launch a military action, which many in the U.S. called a mistake. Did we forget about that?" Putin said.

 

Putin threw another wrench into U.S.-Russian relations by calling U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry a liar for what he said was Kerry's denial that al-Qaida was fighting with the Syrian opposition. Speaking Wednesday to his human rights council, Putin said Kerry was well aware of the al-Qaida-linked Jabhat al-Nusra group operating in Syria.

 

"This was very unpleasant and surprising for me," Putin said in televised comments about Kerry. "He is lying and he knows that he is lying. This is sad."

Chinese President Xi Jinping told his U.S. counterpart Barack Obama on Friday that the crisis in Syria should not be resolved through a military strike and urged him to consider a political solution, state news agency Xinhua said.

 

Xi's are the highest-level comments from China since an August 21 chemical weapons attack in Syria. They follow remarks by a foreign ministry spokesman, who urged a role for the U.N. Security Council in resolving the crisis after the United States said it had given up trying to work with the council on Syria.

 

"A political solution is the only right way out for the Syrian crisis, and a military strike cannot solve the problem from the root," Xinhua quoted Xi as telling Obama on the sidelines of a G20 summit in St. Petersburg in Russia.

 

"We expect certain countries to have a second thought before action."

 

China has called for a full and impartial investigation by U.N. chemical weapons inspectors in Syria into the attack, and has warned against pre-judging the results. It has also said that whoever used chemical weapons had to be held accountable.

 

Xi stressed to Obama China's position on adhering to the two principles of "maintaining the basic norms of international law and relations" and the prohibition of the use of chemical weapons, according to remarks broadcast by state television.

 

He urged the international community to work toward a meeting on Syria at a second conference in Geneva, with the aim of discussing an open political transition in Syria.

 

Russia and China have both vetoed previous Western efforts to impose U.N. penalties on Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.

 

But China has also been keen to show it is not taking sides and has urged the Syrian government to talk to the opposition and take steps to meet demands for political change. It has said a transitional government should be formed.

 

Remarks on Thursday by Samantha Power, the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, left no doubt that Washington would not seek U.N. approval for a military strike on Syria in response to the chemical attack.

Asked about those comments, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei said the Security Council needed to be used.

 

"China supports the important role that the U.N. Security Council plays in properly resolving the Syria issue," Hong told a daily news briefing in Beijing.

 

"We hope relevant parties can continue communications and coordination and hold deep consultations so as to resolve the relevant issue in a peaceful way," he added.

 

Separately, Xi urged Obama to adopt an "objective and fair attitude" in matters related to the Asia-Pacific region, where there are disputes over maritime rights and islands.

 

Xi also reiterated China's long-held view on resumption of six-party talks on the Korean peninsula.

Common sense...except in the MSM. Just watch the one lone voice of reason get ganged up on by the entire panel of MSNBC warprop dronebots:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4k80kqM3X4

No wonder the MSM is rapidly losing all ratings & credibility!

[thelerner]

 

Do people really believe InfoWars? No one can be that gullible, not long term. At some point a person would think 'We're still here', his constant predictions of imminent apocalypse are consistantly wrong.

 

I only visit his site every few months and its non stop apocalypse. I was reading an analysis of his 'work', from a seemingly impartial view, he lied every 3 or 4 sentence. Either plain out wrong or plain out lying. This was done on 3 of his 'apocalytmentaries'. It so frequent he must be doing knowingly or be psychopathic and simply not care. It'd be funny if there weren't who believed or took his stuff as evidence of anything.

 

This video says the nukes are being moved (in order to attack Syria Russia Iran? the US?). I ask believers who go to his site regularly; How often do we get such dire proclamations of doom? How often does he announce his secret knowledge from unnamed experts pointing to impending collapse?

 

I hear it every it every time I go there. Seems to me he's a iv feed for the paranoid. There is solid well informed news out there. You need several sources to get a good picture, but Inforwars, Alex Jones, is a very bad source, unless your paranoid, in which case, you're home; unfortunately your house is about to be invaded and burnt down any second now, month after month, year after year.

 

Wait here a site that breaks down some of his 'analysis'- http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/articles/alex-jones/

 

For people who don't want to read, here is video with similar analysis: Again listening to it, I can't believe a rational person wouldn't see him as a paranoid clown instantly. Yet there people who use him for 'evidence'? Its beyond me.

 

Here's the video, needless to say it could be replicated on virtually everything he says.

that was from 2009, his rants are almost identical in 2007, and 2005, 2003,.. 2011 and 2013. He's not a news source, he's a gimmick, a repetitive one. In 2015 and 2020 he'll be using the exact same lines, word for frickin word, and gullibles will be 'Wow, how he do it?'

 

Wait, there are those who think 10 pieces of information is better then one (using just common sense) But for those who think more means better . Here is more- http://metabunk.org/threads/alex-jones-debunked.1029/

Edited September 6, 2013 by thelerner

[Thunder_Gooch]

In terms of generalities Alex has been on the money about the direction we are headed as a country, an Orwellian dystopia. The parts about all internet traffic being logged and stored for later review, email, facebook, telephone conversations, txt messages, gps location data, remote bugging abilities of all cell phones.

 

Each year it gets worse and worse, and the unthinkable becomes the new normal.

 

Alex isn't taken seriously because he foams at the mouth and raves, non stop.

 

I didn't take him seriously before 9/11, but he is certainly aware of the direction this is all headed.

 

 

 

 

Do people really believe InfoWars? No one can be that gullible, not long term. At some point a person would think 'We're still here', his constant predictions of imminent apocalypse are consistantly wrong.

 

I only visit his site every few months and its non stop apocalypse. I was reading an analysis of his 'work', from a seemingly impartial view, he lied every 3 or 4 sentence. Either plain out wrong or plain out lying. This was done on 3 of his 'apocalytmentaries'. It so frequent he must be doing knowingly or be psychopathic and simply not care. It'd be funny if there weren't who believed or took his stuff as evidence of anything.

 

This video says the nukes are being moved (in order to attack Syria Russia Iran? the US?). I ask believers who go to his site regularly; How often do we get such dire proclamations of doom? How often does he announce his secret knowledge from unnamed experts pointing to impending collapse?

 

I hear it every it every time I go there. Seems to me he's a iv feed for the paranoid. There is solid well informed news out there. You need several sources to get a good picture, but Inforwars, Alex Jones, is a very bad source, unless your paranoid, in which case, you're home; unfortunately your house is about to be invaded and burnt down any second now, month after month, year after year.

 

Wait here a site that breaks down some of his 'analysis'- http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/articles/alex-jones/

 

For people who don't want to read, here is video with similar analysis: Again listening to it, I can't believe a rational person wouldn't see him as a paranoid clown instantly. Yet there people who use him for 'evidence'? Its beyond me.

 

Here's the video, needless to say it could be replicated on virtually everything he says.

that was from 2009, his rants are almost identical in 2007, and 2005, 2003,.. 2011 and 2013. He's not a news source, he's a gimmick, a repetitive one. In 2015 and 2020 he'll be using the exact same lines, word for frickin word, and gullibles will be 'Wow, how he do it?'

 

Wait, there are those who think 10 pieces of information is better then one (using just common sense) But for those who think more means better . Here is more- http://metabunk.org/threads/alex-jones-debunked.1029/

[gendao]

Direct link between Assad and gas attack elusive for U.S.

 

With the United States threatening to attack Syria, U.S. and allied intelligence services are still trying to work out who ordered the poison gas attack on rebel-held neighborhoods near Damascus.

 

No direct link to President Bashar al-Assad or his inner circle has been publicly demonstrated, and some U.S. sources say intelligence experts are not sure whether the Syrian leader knew of the attack before it was launched or was only informed about it afterward.

 

It is one of the biggest gaps in U.S. understanding of the incident, even as Congress debates whether to launch limited strikes on Assad's forces in retaliation.

Calls to Congress 499 to 1 against Syria war

The people revolt: Americans tell 24 lawmakers 'no' to military action

Americans are slamming at least 24 members of Congress with thousands of phone calls and emails, urging lawmakers not to approve a military strike on Syria by a margin of as much as 499 to 1.

Rep. Jim McDermott, D-Wash., tweeted, Calls and emails from my constituents is 100 to 1 AGAINST getting involved in Syria. The American people are speaking.

Rep. Elijah Cummings, D-Md., said 99 percent of the calls his office oppose an attack.

Rep. Andy Harris, R-Md., said, Constituents who have contacted my office by phone or mail oppose action in Syria 523-4 so far.

Rep. Matt Salmon, R-Ariz., tweeted, Syria constituent calls 489-2 against.

Rep. Shelley Capito, R-W.V., said of about 1,000 calls to my office, maybe 5 are for.

Rep. Vern Buchanan, R-Fla., said calls and emails to his offices are 600 to 9 against striking Syria.

Rep. Tim Griffin, R-Ark., tweeted, I received 225 emails via www.griffin.house.gov website over the weekend regarding Syria, and out of the 225 only 3 support U.S. military action against Syria.

Rep. Jason Chaffetz, R-Utah, tweeted, So far about 500 emails regarding Syria. 499 say NO and 1 say YES go to war and Hundreds of calls to our Provo and Washington, D.C., office. So far not a single call in favor of bombing Syria.

Etc. etc.

So, with no real intel and record anti-war protests from the American people to both mainstream parties...why are we still being so heavily forced into Syria???

AIPAC to go all-out on Syria

 

The powerful pro-Israel lobby AIPAC is planning to launch a major lobbying campaign to push wayward lawmakers to back the resolution authorizing U.S. strikes against Syria, sources said Thursday.

 

Officials say that some 250 Jewish leaders and AIPAC activists will storm the halls on Capitol Hill beginning next week to persuade lawmakers that Congress must adopt the resolution or risk emboldening Irans efforts to build a nuclear weapon.

The top two Senate GOP leaders Minority Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky and Minority Whip John Cornyn of Texas both have already been urged by top Jewish donors and AIPAC allies to back the Syria resolution, sources say.

Americas largest pro-Israel lobby has deployed its organization in Congress to push for the presidents war authorization against Syria, according to a senior official with the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) who called the effort a "full court press."

Anyone know what other corporate lobbies & PACs are also ramrodding this country into potential WWIII?

Welp, here we go again...

Edited September 7, 2013 by vortex

[h.uriahr]

A war with Russia and China would be pretty intense. The smart thing would be for Russia to stage a Naval battle while China attacks the California coastline. I like Chinese food.

 

It'll happen soon enough.

[thelerner]

What do you mean we've heavy handed with Syria? So far its mostly common sense sanctions. There are discussions of small targeted attacks but people are being heard. Its not a revolt its democracy.

 

Do you really think Russia and Chinese are so in love with Syria they'd halt 10's of billions of dollars in mutual trade? Trash there economies for there love of Syria? You assume beyond that they'd risk destroying there economies AND spend billions on war And the deaths of thousands of there citizens to support Assad?

 

Seems highly unlikely to me. Your read of world politics is far different then mine then. <edit!> Though I'd add I think we're on the same side on Syria. We should keep the hell away. We can't make the situation better.

 

In terms of generalities Jones is crazy, foaming at the mouth crazy. If he was one tenth correct we'd all be in a prison camp right now (actually worse, according to his schedule 50% would be dead by NWO), thankfully he lives a fantasy world.

Edited September 8, 2013 by thelerner

[Thunder_Gooch]

Being foaming at the mouth crazy doesn't make someone wrong.

Imagine a German who claimed the Reichstag fire was a false flag attack, so that they could pass the enabling act and take full control of the government.

A normal Joe on the streets of 1934 Germany would have looked at that man and thought he was a lunatic.


The German people never really noticed anything was wrong, everything was just normal to them.

Do you think we are any different now?

Do you think the same sort of thing could not happen to us?


What if hundreds our nations top structural engineers said that World Trade Center building 7 was not hit by any air plane, and the official explanation that office furniture melted the steel structural support is impossible and has never occurred before in history even though many office furniture fires have.

What if 9/11 was a false flag terror attack used in exactly the same manner as the Nazi Party used the Reichstag fire?

What if the patriot act is analogous to Hitler's enabling act?

 

What if it doesn't matter if we elect a democrat or a republic a hawk or a dove, as the same policies will executed irregardless.

Göring:

Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.

Gilbert:

There is one difference. In a democracy, the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars.


Göring:

Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.


-In an interview with Gilbert in Göring's jail cell during the Nuremberg War Crimes Trials (18 April 1946)

I think Russia and China and the rest of the world has had just about enough of all our Bull****.

There will be a point when the rest of the world says enough, we aren't going to let you invade any more countries.

 

According to U.S. General Wesley Clark: We plan to take out 7 countries in 5 years: Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, and Iran.

 

We champion human rights, and we torture people to death, we've militarized our police, we routinely shoot our own unarmed citizens, our media focuses on Milely Cirus's *** and honey boo boo as it's more important than some poor grandmother who got her skull blown into a thousand bits in a botched drug raid at the wrong address.

 

We have set up domestic surveillance networks to monitor, record and store for later review 100% of all telecommunications traffic (facebook, email, txt message, phone conversations, gps location data, everything)

You boil frogs slowly for a reason my friend.

 

You can live in denial about the reality of the situation but it won't change it.

What do you mean we've heavy handed with Syria? So far its mostly common sense sanctions. There are discussions of small targeted attacks but people are being heard. Its not a revolt its democracy.

Do you really think Russia and Chinese are so in love with Syria they'd halt 10's of billions of dollars in mutual trade? Trash there economies for there love of Syria? You assume beyond that they'd risk destroying there economies AND spend billions on war And the deaths of thousands of there citizens to support Assad?

Seems highly unlikely to me. Your read of world politics is far different then mine then. <edit!> Though I'd add I think we're on the same side on Syria. We should keep the hell away. We can't make the situation better.

In terms of generalities Jones is crazy, foaming at the mouth crazy. If he was one tenth correct we'd all be in a prison camp right now (actually worse, according to his schedule 50% would be dead by NWO), thankfully he lives a fantasy world.

 

 

Edited September 8, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[thelerner]

Being foaming at the mouth crazy doesn't make someone wrong.

What if the patriot act is analogous to Hitler's enabling act?

 

 

I think Russia and China and the rest of the world has had just about enough of all our Bull****. We champion human rights, and we torture people to death, we've militarized our police, we routinely shoot our own unarmed citizens, our media focuses on Milely Cirus's *** and honey boo boo as it's more important than some poor grandmother who got her skull blown into a thousand bits in a botched drug raid at the wrong address.

 

You boil frogs slowly for a reason my friend.

Nobody is boiling frogs, quite the opposite, the heat is coming off. As 9/11 tensions slacken, we're seeing the natural movement away from the overly paranoid initial reaction. The over reaction that happens almost every time we go to war. If you think the patriot act is unique, you haven't studied American history or history of other countries. Over reaction and as things settle down its reverses.

 

Its only because you listen to Jones you think there is mass murder of unarmed citizens on the streets. Shit happens, its illegal and its rare. Actually crime has been moving down dramatically for 2 decades. Pot is moving (slowly) toward decriminalization in many areas, harsh sentencing mandates are getting a second look and may be reversed, gays are legally marrying, soon we'll wear our shoes through airport security. There's a movement back towards expanded freedoms. The Tea Party is greatly weakened.

 

Alex Jones has preached we're becoming Nazi Germany before 9/11 and will do so ever afterwards, because thats his shtick. Everything is a dark conspiracy, no other answer in his play book. No matter what happens, he'll continue and his followers will have a dark lop sided version of reality. Again I'm not saying we don't have a fair share of injustice here or that things are perfect. But Infowars constant preaching of the coming Armageddon, brown shirt police officers invading our homes and kidnapping children, and mass FEMA prison camps is consistently wrong, and the man lies out of his teeth, constantly.

 

Here is my conspiracy theory- In investment terms gold is a 'hysterical' metal, and he makes his money selling hysteria because his main advertisers, those who pay him millions, are gold companies (Limbaugh too). I assume he makes a fair amount of advertising change from Survivalist companies too.

 

<edit!> Slightly back on track looks like the House is moving to block any Syrian intervention. That could change, but for now those who've placed there votes on the table are largely against it. The president did the right thing by going to Congress, at least the house is voting no. That and the lack of a majority of American public support will keep the strike from happening.

 

Obama is not pulling the massive sell of a military strike that Bush did. FWIW, I think Bush honestly thought there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraqi. (it points to amazing honesty that he didn't plant'em there when he was wrong) Most leaders in the area did at that point, and we had top level defectors who backed it up. They were wrong and/or lied, Bush 'massaged' evidence to prove his point, but I think he believed and wanted to accomplish what his father hadn't, or at least get a share of what he thought was his fathers great victory. He wasn't the brightest bush on the lawn.

 

<more editing cause I still can! and horribly don't have anything better to do > If you think we're more into Honey Boo and Miley Cyrus then concern over Syria, you're watching too much Disney, reading too many rags or listening to Infowars. There's an audience for light weight, turn your mind off, cotton candy. But if you ask people around you if Honey Boo Boo is as important as Syria, they'll laugh at you or think you're making a joke.

 

You should really do that experiment. I think Jones stated it and you believe. But if you ask ten, no twenty people that question, you'll find out the truth. Please, do the experiment, ask and find out if Boo Boo is on more minds then Syria these days. Ask some people and let us know your conclusions.

 

I wouldn't want to waste precious board space but you could do a poll here, though i assume the pro Boo Boos and Cyrus'is were just being sarcastic.

Edited September 8, 2013 by thelerner

[Thunder_Gooch]

I think you are living in denial of an obvious reality that surrounds you.

 

This sort of mentality reminds me of my ex girlfriend's, I'll quote her:

 

"We aren't living in mother Russia yet, there is no way they could tap and record all email, Facebook, phone calls, txt messages, they can't remotely turn on your cell phones mic, they can't access your GPS history, that is just paranoid delusions"

 

When I confronted her with proof she still stuck to her guns that it was paranoid delusions, that it wasn't really happening.

 

People would rather stick their head in the sand than be honest with themselves that their society is collapsing around them.

 

Do you believe we aren't really torturing people in secret over seas prisons?

 

Do you really think we are going to war to help the people in the middle east and not secure their oil resources and loyalty to the petrodollar system?

 

Do you really think we don't incarcerate more of our population per capita than any other country on earth?

 

Do you really think botched drug raids on innocent people are an uncommon event?

 

Do you really think that police brutality is an uncommon event?

 

Do you really think the picture the media paints is what is actually going on?

 

Where do you think this is all headed?

 

Nobody is boiling frogs, quite the opposite, the heat is coming off. As 9/11 tensions slacken, we're seeing the natural movement away from the overly paranoid initial reaction. The over reaction that happens almost every time we go to war. If you think the patriot act is unique, you haven't studied American history or history of other countries. Over reaction and as things settle down its reverses.

 

Its only because you listen to Jones you think there is mass murder of unarmed citizens on the streets. Shit happens, its illegal and its rare. Actually crime has been moving down dramatically for 2 decades. Pot is moving (slowly) toward decriminalization in many areas, harsh sentencing mandates are getting a second look and may be reversed, gays are legally marrying, soon we'll wear our shoes through airport security. There's a movement back towards expanded freedoms. The Tea Party is greatly weakened.

 

Alex Jones has preached we're becoming Nazi Germany before 9/11 and will do so ever afterwards, because thats his shtick. Everything is a dark conspiracy, no other answer in his play book. No matter what happens, he'll continue and his followers will have a dark lop sided version of reality. Again I'm not saying we don't have a fair share of injustice here or that things are perfect. But Infowars constant preaching of the coming Armageddon, brown shirt police officers invading our homes and kidnapping children, and mass FEMA prison camps is consistently wrong, and the man lies out of his teeth, constantly.

 

Here is my conspiracy theory- In investment terms gold is a 'hysterical' metal, and he makes his money selling hysteria because his main advertisers, those who pay him millions, are gold companies (Limbaugh too). I assume he makes a fair amount of advertising change from Survivalist companies too.

Edited September 8, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[Thunder_Gooch]

That's too bad then, they'll need to resort to more false flag attacks to outrage the public enough into supporting a new war.

 

 

<edit!> Slightly back on track looks like the House is moving to block any Syrian intervention.

[林愛偉]

A war with Russia and China would be pretty intense. The smart thing would be for Russia to stage a Naval battle while China attacks the California coastline. I like Chinese food. It'll happen soon enough.

 

 

I would "Head for the hills"!

[Thunder_Gooch]

If you think we're more into Honey Boo and Miley Cyrus then concern over Syria,

Most people don't give a rat's *** about Syria, they just want to stare at their tv, and drink beer.

 

 

 

 

But if you ask ten, no twenty people that question

 

I think Bush honestly thought there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraqi.

 

FWIW, I think Bush honestly thought there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraqi.

 

 

 

 

 

[Wesley Clark] About ten days after 9/11 I went to the Pentagon and I saw secretary Rumsfield and Deputy Secretary Wolfweitz.

 

I went downstairs to see some of the staff who used to work for me and one of the Generals called me in and said "Sir, you have got to come in. Come in, you have got to come in and talk to me a second."

 

I said "Well, you're too busy".

 

He said, "No, No, we have made the decision to go to war with Iraq". This was on or about the 20th of September [2001].

 

I said "We are going to war with Iraq? Why" [emphasis added].

 

He said, "I don't know" [crowd laughs]

 

He said, "I guess they don't know what else to do". [crowd boos].

 

So I said "Well, did they find come information connecting Saddam to Al-Queda?"

 

He said, "No, No. There is nothing new that way, they just made the decision to go to war with Iraq."

 

He said, "I guess its like, we don't know what to do about terrorists but we have a good military and we can take down governments"

 

So I came back to see him a few weeks later and by that time we were bombing in Afghanistan.

 

I said "Are we still going to war with Iraq?"

 

And he said "Oh, its worse than that."

 

He reached over on his desk and picked up a piece of paper.

 

He said, "I just got this down from upstairs from the Secretary of Defense's office today. This is a memo that describes how we are going to take out 7 countries in 5 years."

 

"Starting with Iraq, then Syria and Lebanon. Then Libya, Somalia and Sudan. Then finishing off Iran."

 

[Amy Goodman] "Go Through the countries again." [crowd laughs]

 

[Wesley Clark] "Well starting off with Iraq, then Syria and Lebanon, and Libya, Somalia and Sudan. and back to Iran."

Edited September 8, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[h.uriahr]

 

I would "Head for the hills"!

 

I need to make an emergency kit and start hoarding water.

 

 

[Thunder_Gooch]

 

Skip to 1:13:01

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Binney_%28U.S._intelligence_official%29

 

 

This should establish his credentials as a 30 year NSA veteran.

[ralis]

An intelligent discussion in regards to Syria with Andrew Bacevich. Phil Donahue sits in for Bill Moyers.

 

http://billmoyers.com/episode/what-are-we-doing-in-syria/

[Thunder_Gooch]

[Thunder_Gooch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI0-ZgQB0Dc

[ion]

Since alot of the videos you guys are posting are not related to the topic, it would be helpful if there was some text along with it, telling us what the vid is about and how it connects to the OP. Personally if its a random video I dont usually watch unless its only about a minute long.

 

I dont think to many of us are going to click on random videos that ar 10 minutes+. It seems like most of them are just about how AMerica is corrupt, which may be true of our government, I certainly believe so, but not all discussions involving America need to turn into a youtube playlist of "America Sucks Videos". The same point can be gotten across while sticking to topic.

 

Anyway I just read in the news today that -

 

The CNN/ORC International poll released Monday shows that even though eight in 10 Americans believe that Bashar al-Assad's regime gassed its own people, a strong majority doesn't want Congress to pass a resolution authorizing a military strike against it.

 

 

Apearently the American people are against us going to war over there, even if Assad is guilty. I dont think it has much to do with China and Russsia ganging up on us if we do, or whether or not hes guil;ty of crimes against humanity.

 

Its obviously a personal interest issue, but its also showing us more what a puts Obama is.

 

After the kids were shot by that psycho in Colorodo Obama immediately set up a poll asking if there should be a ban on assault rifles and sticter regulations on guns which everyone in the frenzy whos heart was touched by the tragedy and the news coverage voted yes.

 

It was turned over as unconstitutional. Obama went on a rampage saying that congress doesnt care about what the American people want, saying that his poll shows what the Americn people want and that congress clearly, arrogantly doesnt care.

 

I think if it was a propper democratic vote taken right now, not a poll taken the day after oer whatever, you'd see that most Americans do not support the over turning of our constitution and do not support Obamas opinion or agenda regaurding guns.

 

Obama went rage saying how screwed up it is that congress does not respect the obvious wished and desire of the American people.

 

Around the same time Obama was talking about givving assault rifles to syrian rebels.

 

California and many states have legalized Marijuana one way or another. These states held legal democratic votes on the issue to see how and what the people really wanted. These states passed new laws based on the elections.

 

Obamas spokesman said they would not honor the state laws protecting marijuana people because congress is looking out for whats best regaurding the American people, and if congress dosnt legalize it, then basicly our opinions do not matter.

 

Now, here we go again. Stupid ass war after stupid ass war, (and we dont win), and finally the American people are saying no, basicly in unison, so it will be interesting to see how this all turns out with Obama and his big mouth.

 

Lets see how much he honors our stance as a people, after saying all that crap about assault rifles ,(which he was planning on givving to a bunch rebels in a region where they would more then likely end up circulating amongst terrorist groups that hate America), stricter gun regulations and congress, now that the polls are not in favor of his agenda.

 

When Clinton passed the dont ask dont tell thing in the military, he took an opinion poll but alsostated that his "mind was already made up", at least he was upfront about it and didn't try to pass an opinion poll off as his reasoniing. But this to me is different, this seems to be everyone in the world saying no, except part of the US govt.

 

Our getting involved could definitely lead to something bigger and worse because it would be a sign of our disregaurding the world to pursue our own self interest and that we might get worse and worse if we succeeded and become more and more of a threat to world peace.

 

If we did attack, I think it would be wise for China and Russia to stop us so we dont take it further and further in the future, and I think that is what the other large nations are worried about..."Whats America going to do?". in general, not just about the Syria issue but I think they are eall watching us from the corners of there eyes. In the last several years we've lost credibility and trust with everyone, we're going broke, and obviously pursuing self interest, one of which is to get a hold of some oil laden country before they switch the oil currency.

 

Hopefully I'm up in a mountain garden surrounded by good friends, family and wilderness soon. Whether the economy collapses, or we get ironicly after all these years attacked by commies and russians, or what, Id be better off if I had no idea what was going on.

[thelerner]

MPG, so obviously you didn't ask anyone but turned to your friend 'the internet' to search out idiots youtubes. In real life, not the uber parnoia you surround yourself with, you'd find the obvious. People around you care more about Syria then Honey Boo Boo, but you couldn't ask them cause you'd look stupid or it would hurt your prejudice. This is probably indicative of most of your 'research'. Do internet search until you find someone who agrees with you.

 

But, if you honest and people in what I call, real life, I highly assume you'd find results then your cherry picked internet reality. Do the frickin test, not search for the dumbest people on the net, but ask people around you. You'll find you're wrong.

 

Your posts and videos seem lunatic to me. The internet allows people to bathe in there extreme prejudices.

 

Thus while I don't want to waste my time on it, because its fruitless to convince paranoids of the well established truth and its hijacking this thread for deniers ranting , let me put down a few of the sites that say why 9/11 wasn't an inside job and more importantly why the paranoid conspiracy theorists cling to it with such intensity.

 

Why crack pots cling ** nice simple fast logical- http://www.cracked.com/article_15740_was-911-inside-job.html

From scientific/engineering angle- good but you'll need your thinking caps on http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842

The whole Shebang against deniers-exhaustive, long worthwhile http://www.debunking911.com/

 

low attention span? Just want to watch a youtube that debunks 9/11 deniers? Here-

Edited September 9, 2013 by thelerner

[Thunder_Gooch]

I dont usually watch

 

Well as many other things the topic of syria is connected to the direction we are headed. Syria will lead to Iran and world war 3, martial law, and totalitarian government. A totalitarian, fascist, Orwellian dystopia. That's where we are headed.

 

I don't think corruption or saying America sucks really does the situation we are in justice.

 

There is no sugar coating the reality of the situation we are in, there is only denial.

 

Eh maybe I'll watch that video tomorrow it's too much effort.

 

 

 

 

 

 

______________________________________________________

 

 

 

Your posts and videos seem lunatic to me.

I'll be honest thelerner, you have a mental firewall up. Anything that might shift your paradigm will be automatically blocked and filed under "conspiracy theory", "crazy", "fringe", etc.

 

 

 

It won't be allowed to make it to your surface awareness even.

 

As an example:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Binney_%28U.S._intelligence_official%29

 

William Edward Binney is a former highly placed intelligence official with the United States National Security Agency (NSA) turned whistleblower who resigned on October 31, 2001, after more than 30 years with the agency. He was a high-profile critic of his former employers during the George W. Bush administration, and was the subject of FBI investigations, including a raid on his home in 2007.

 

http://www.thebostonliberal.com/former-nsa-official-warns-of-complete-totalitarianism-during-recent-mit-talk/

 

 

 

Where do you see this in 5-10 years?

 

“It’s going to be a totalitarian State and we’ll have an imperial president, a dictator, unless we do something, unless we stand up. Everyone in congress took an oath to protect the constitution. They’re all violating that oath. So every time you see one, you should say “what are you doing with this privacy stuff? You’re violating your oath by supporting this kind of activity.”

 

 

______________________________________________________

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wesley_Clark

 

Wesley Kanne Clark, Sr. (born December 23, 1944) is a retired General of the United States Army.

 

Link to this discussion: youtube.com/watch?v=9LTdx1nPu3k

 

 

 

 

[Wesley Clark] About ten days after 9/11 I went to the penatagon and I say secretary Rumsfield and Deputy Secretary Wolfweitz.

I went down stairs to see some of the staff who used to work for me and one of the Generals called me in and said “Sir, you have got to come in. Come in, you have got to come in and talk to me a second.”

I said “Well, your to busy”.

He said, “No, No, we have made the decision to go to war with Iraq”. This was on or about the 20th of September [2001].

I said “We are going to war with Iraq? Why” [emphasis added].

He said, “I don’t know” [crowd laughs]

He said, “I guess they don’t know what else to do”. [crowd boos].

So I said “Well did they find come information connecting Saddam to Al-Queda?”

He said, “No, No. There is nothing new that way, they just made the decision to go to war with Iraq.”

He said, “I quess its like, we don’t know what to do about terrorists but we have a good military and we can take down governments”

So I came back to see him a few weeks laters and by that time we were bombing in Afghanistan.

I said “Are we still going to war with Iraq?”

And he said “Oh, its worse than that.”

He reached over on his desk and picked up a piece of paper.

He said, “I just got this down from up stairs from the Secratary of Defense’s office today. This is a memo that describes how we are going to take out 7 countries in 5 years.”

“Starting with Iraq, then Syria and Lebenon. Then Lybia, Somalia and Sudan. Then finishing off Iran.”

[Amy Goodman] “Go Through the countries again.” [crowd laughs]

[Wesley Clark] “Well starting off with Iraq, then Syria and Lebenon, and Lybia, Somalia and Sudan. and back to Iran.”

 

 

 

______________________________________________________

Edited September 9, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[thelerner]

 

Quote

Where do you see this in 5-10 years?

 

“It’s going to be a totalitarian State and we’ll have an imperial president, a dictator, unless we do something, unless we stand up. Everyone in congress took an oath to protect the constitution. They’re all violating that oath. So every time you see one, you should say “what are you doing with this privacy stuff? You’re violating your oath by supporting this kind of activity.”

 

I guess we'll see. You're going with Dictator in 5 to 10. Your sources and there paranoid forebears have been proclaiming that as well as civil collapse and disaster du jour for 50 years. If you were honest you'd man up to the fact that your sources, like Infowars, has been spouting The End of the World is near since its very beginning. And its been wrong. Your 9/11 conspiracy theories, simply wrong. Paranoid clinging.

Edited September 9, 2013 by thelerner

[Thunder_Gooch]

I guess we'll see. You're going with Dictator in 5 to 10. Evidence you're wrong is that your sources and there paranoid forebears have been proclaiming that as well as civil collapse for 50 years. If you were honest you'd man up to the fact that your sources, like Infowars, has been spouting The End of the World is near since its very beginning. And its been wrong. Your 9/11 conspiracy theories, simply wrong. Paranoid clinging.

 

I would urge you to look at the Germans of 1933 from their perspective and how life was like for them:

 

http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.html

 

They Thought They Were Free The Germans, 1933-45 Milton Mayer

 

But Then It Was Too Late

 

 

 

"What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if the people could not understand it, it could not be released because of national security."

 

 

 

"This separation of government from people, this widening of the gap, took place so gradually and so insensibly, each step disguised (perhaps not even intentionally) as a temporary emergency measure or associated with true patriotic allegiance or with real social purposes. And all the crises and reforms (real reforms, too) so occupied the people that they did not see the slow motion underneath, of the whole process of government growing remoter and remoter."

 

 

 

"Most of us did not want to think about fundamental things and never had. There was no need to. Nazism gave us some dreadful, fundamental things to think about—we were decent people—and kept us so busy with continuous changes and ‘crises’ and so fascinated, yes, fascinated, by the machinations of the ‘national enemies,’ without and within, that we had no time to think about these dreadful things that were growing, little by little, all around us. Unconsciously, I suppose, we were grateful. Who wants to think?

 

"To live in this process is absolutely not to be able to notice it—please try to believe me—unless one has a much greater degree of political awareness, acuity, than most of us had ever had occasion to develop. Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, ‘regretted,’ that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these ‘little measures’ that no ‘patriotic German’ could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head."

 

 

 

"Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. "

 

 

 

Outside, in the streets, in the general community, ‘everyone’ is happy. One hears no protest, and certainly sees none. You know, in France or Italy there would be slogans against the government painted on walls and fences; in Germany, outside the great cities, perhaps, there is not even this. In the university community, in your own community, you speak privately to your colleagues, some of whom certainly feel as you do; but what do they say? They say, ‘It’s not so bad’ or ‘You’re seeing things’ or ‘You’re an alarmist.’

 

 

 

 

 

"In between come all the hundreds of little steps, some of them imperceptible, each of them preparing you not to be shocked by the next. Step C is not so much worse than Step B, and, if you did not make a stand at Step B, why should you at Step C? And so on to Step D."

 

 

"You have accepted things you would not have accepted five years ago, a year ago, things that your father, even in Germany, could not have imagined."

Edited September 9, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[thelerner]

Frankly I've studied the subject a bit and don't think we're 1930's Germany. Its not a valid historical comparison. If it was then Moslems would probably be this periods scape goat. We'd see legislature and government sponsored pile on against them or some Middle Eastern country. But we're not. Obama and most his staff has been quite politically correct.

 

American troops have been leaving Arab countries, accelerating our exit in most cases. Which is good.

 

On subject there's increasing good news on Syria. Assad has stated he 'likes' the Russian solution of putting the Chemical weapons under international community guard!(?) US public opinion and most recent, but not definitive Congress polls show the House won't agree to a strike. With the odds of one going down after Assad's declaration.

 

Another unexpected but interesting piece of news was Iran's new President tweeting a wish for a happy new year to Jews everywhere, especially in Iran in honor of Rosh Hashanah!(!?) It doesn't mean anything concrete but its a far change in attitude then the last president.

 

Things change. People see things getting worse and draw lines to hell without always taking into consideration the cyclical nature of history. The pendulum swings, public opinions and whats fashionable change. Yesterdays enemies become tomorrows friends and vice versa. Hell our latest ally isn't Britain, its France!(?) You have to take that into account otherwise you stay stuck in a position that has long grown old.

Edited September 9, 2013 by thelerner