Common misconceptions concerning Daoism

[Mudryah]

By Louis Komjathy 康思奇, Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Chinese Religions and Comparative Religious Studies Department of Theology and Religious StudiesUniversity of San Diego.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Popular misconceptions concerning Daoism are numerous and increasingly influential in the modern world. All of these perspectives fail to understand the religious tradition which is Daoism, a religious tradition that is complex, multifaceted, and rooted in Chinese culture. These misconceptions have their origins in traditional Confucian prejudices, European colonialism, and Christian missionary sensibilities, especially as expressed by late nineteenth-century Protestants. Most of these views are located in American designer hybrid (New Age) spirituality, Orientalism, Perennial Philosophy, and spiritual capitalism. They domesticate, sterilize and misrepresent Daoism. In their most developed expressions, they may best be understood as part of a new religious movement (NRM) called Popular Western Taoism (PWT), with Taoism pronounced with a hard t sound. The current state of Daoism in American may thus be compared to that of Zen Buddhism in the 1950s and 1960s (cf. Dharma Bums and Alan Watts with the Mountains and Rivers Order), although some have suggested that it more closely resembles the Euro-American understanding of Buddhism in the 1890s.

[Mudryah]

- Popular Misconception

Dao (Tao) is a trans-religious and universal name for the sacred, and there are Dao-ists (Tao-ists) who transcend the limitations of the Daoist religious tradition.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- Informed View

道, romanized as dao or tao, is a Chinese character utilized by Daoists to identify that which they believe is sacred. There are specific, foundational Daoist views concerning the Dao, which originate in the earliest Daoist communities of the Warring States period (480-222 BCE).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- Popular misconception

Daoism consists of two forms, philosophical Daoism and religious Daoism*

∗ These characterizations require reflection on the category of religion, including the ways in which Daoists have constructed and understood their own tradition.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- Informed View

The distinction between so-called philosophical Daoism and religious Daoism is a modern Western fiction, which reflects colonialist and missionary agendas and sensibilities. From its beginnings in the Warring States period (480-222 BCE), Daoism consisted of religious practitioners and communities. Considered as a whole, Daoism is a complex and diverse religious tradition. It consists of various adherents, communities and movements, which cannot be reduced to a simplistic bifurcation. Its complexity may be mapped in terms of historical periodization as well as models of practice and attainment.

Edited September 1, 2013 by Mudryah

[rene]

Mudryah - nice thread!

The opinion of Louis Komjathy 康思奇, Ph.D., seems to line up with other scholastic opinions regarding these matters, and it's nice to see the ideas presented here in TTB.

Regarding this:

- Informed View
道, romanized as dao or tao, is a Chinese character utilized by Daoists to identify that which they believe is sacred. There are specific, foundational Daoist views concerning the Dao, which originate in the earliest Daoist communities of the Warring States period (480-222 BCE).

Yes, and those who do not consider 道 to be sacred, should at minimum understand the history of the term and those who do. IMO, of course.

warm regards

[Mudryah]

- Popular Misconception

Philosophical Daoism is the original form of Daoism and is best understood as philosophy (disembodied thinking/way of thought)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- Informed View

Outside of the modern world, there is no form of Daoism that is not religious. Although there are aspects of Daoism that are philosophical, philosophical Daoism fails to consider the centrality of embodied practice (way of being), community, and place in Daoism, especially in classical Daoism. It is based on a systematic mischaracterization of the inner cultivation lineages of Warring States Daoism and a misreading of the earliest Daoist texts, namely, the Laozi (Lao-tzu; a.k.a. Daode jing) and Zhuangzi (Chuang-tzu), among others.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- Popular Misconception

Daojia 道家 and daojiao 道教 correspond to the Western categories of philosophical Daoism and religious Daoism, respectively.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- Informed View

Daojia 道家, literally Family of the Dao, and daojiao 道教, literally Teachings of the Dao,

are indigenous Chinese categories with no correspondence to the Western constructs of philosophical Daoism and religious Daoism. Each term has a complex history, with its meaning changing in different contexts. For example, in the fifth century, daojia referred to the Daoist religious community in general and the Daoist priesthood in particular.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- Popular Misconception

Laozi 老 子 (Lao-tzu; Master Lao/Old Master/Old Child) is the founder of Daoism.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- Informed View

Laozi, a.k.a. Lao Dan 老聃 and Li Er 李耳, is a pseudo-historical figure. His received biography, as contained in Sima Qians司馬 遷 (ca. 145-86 BCE) Shiji 史記 (Records of the Historian), combines information about a variety of people from various sources. If Laozi existed, we do not know anything about him. There is, in turn, no founder of Daoism; Laozi, translatable as venerable masters, is best understood as a place-holder for the early inner cultivation lineages. Daoism, in turn, has multiple source-points. A variety of figures, both human and divine, are identified as important with respect to the formation of the Daoist tradition.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-Popular Misconception

Laozi wrote the Daode jing 道德經 (Tao-te ching; Scripture on the Dao and Inner Power).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- Informed View

The Daode jing, a.k.a. Laozi 老子 (Book of Venerable Masters), is a composite text. It is a multi-vocal anthology that contains material from different early Daoist lineages and historical periods. Some of these historical and textual layers may have come from the oral teachings of the shadowy figure Lao Dan (see Zhuangzi, chs. 3, 5, 7, 11, 12, 13, 14, 21, 23, 25, 27, 33).

Edited September 1, 2013 by Mudryah

[Mudryah]

People need to see the truth.

Edited September 1, 2013 by Mudryah

[Apech]

Where's Marblehead?

[Mudryah]

- Popular Misconception

The Daode jing and Zhuangzi are the only Daoist texts that matter because they are the essence and original teachings of Daoism.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- Informed View

There is no principal Daoist scripture. Although the Daode jing is probably the most central and influential scripture in Daoist history, different Daoist adherents, communities and movements revere different scriptures. The primary textual collection in the Daoist tradition is called the Daozang 道藏 (Daoist Canon). It is an open textual collection, with new additions having been made throughout Daoist history. The first version was compiled in the fifth century CE. The received version was compiled in the fifteenth century, with a seventeenth century supplement. It consists of roughly 1,400 texts, texts that come from every major period and movement of Daoist history.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- Popular Misconception

Daoism began with a revelation from Laojun (Lord Lao) to Zhang Daoling in 142 CE. This was the beginning of the Tianshi (Celestial Masters) movement.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- Informed View

While the Tianshi movement was formative in the establishment of Daoism as an organized religious tradition and represents one of the most important movements in Daoist history, there were Daoist adherents and communities before the Celestial Masters. Moreover, not every subsequent Daoist movement recognized Zhang Daoling and the Celestial Masters as the source of their tradition.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- Popular Misconception

Daoists, or Dao-ists, are those who love the Dao and go with the flow.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- Informed View

From a Daoist perspective, there are various types of religious adherence and affiliation. These involve different degrees of commitment and responsibility. The Daoist tradition consists, first and foremost, of ordained priests and monastics and lay supporters. Lineage and ordination are primary dimensions of Daoist identity and religious affiliation. This requires training under Daoist teachers and community elders with formal affiliation with the Daoist religious community and tradition. A distinction may in turn be may between Daoist adherents and Daoist sympathizers. In the case of Daoism in the West, one also finds various forms of spiritual appropriation and spiritual capitalism.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- Popular Misconception

Correlative cosmology, based on yin 陰-yang 陽, the Five Elements (wuxing 五行), and qi 氣 (chi), is Daoist.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- Informed View

These concepts are not Daoist. They are part of what is best understood as traditional Chinese cosmology and a traditional Chinese worldview. In pre-modern China, these concepts formed the foundation of a pan- Chinese worldview. Like other aspects of Chinese culture, they formed part of the foundational Daoist worldview. Thus, correlative cosmology is not Daoist in origin or essence.

Edited September 1, 2013 by Mudryah

[Marblehead]

Where's Marblehead?

He is resting as he has grown rather tired.

[Stosh]

Confused view

That people need to know the truth

 

Clear view

Folks get along just fine without it most of the time

 

Confused view

there are Daoists

 

Clear view

There are people ,Daoism is a concept and no matter

How refined a box one draws around it , the character

Of the concept does not become any more concrete.

 

Confused view

Origins matter

 

Clear view

They don't. Yesterday is gone , and that once people thought differently

about dao at one time, doesnt mean that the tradition has become degraded

nor does it mean conclusively that it has become refined.

Such an old tradition has had plenty of time to become changed from the original

many times over and yet still have had thousands of years to become established.

 

Confused view

That a phd in front of a name means anything at all

 

Clear view

The proof is in the pudding,

facts are facts

and opinions are opinions,

and anyone ,even a phd (perhaps even more so)

may lose track of which is which .

Edited September 1, 2013 by Stosh

[dawei]

Nicely said Stosh !

 

Here is the brief if anyone wants it:

http://www.daoistcenter.org/Daoism_Misconceptions.pdf

[Zhongyongdaoist]

This has been posted and examined in considerable detail before:

http://thetaobums.com/topic/17756-common-misconceptions-concerning-daoism-taoism/?hl=%2Blouis+%2Bkomjathy

 

Is there a need to hash this out again?

 

The question is rhetorical, if you want to go through this again, go right ahead.

 

Posted in memory of Stigweard.

[3bob]

Talking about Taoism is only or mostly a concept.

Linkage and action to "mystery" is more than just a concept.

[Marblehead]

Posted in memory of Stigweard.

Amen!

[doc benway]

Lots of folks have different perspectives on Daoism, both in and outside of China, and it's a beautiful thing that it is a rich enough tradition to offer different things to different people depending on their needs.

There are those who focus on it's philosophical attributes, there are those who need the religious identity and support, there are those who use it as a roadmap for connecting with our natural state of being.

The latter category is primarily what I am interested in - cultivation.

 

Sadly, Daoism has been seriously affected by the cultural revolution. Everything Daoist in China needs to be viewed with a healthy skepticism. Much has been rebuilt out of the ashes with political and economic motivation by the authorities.

Taiwan and the Chinese diaspora arguably maintain less corrupted lineages.

 

My teacher is from Taiwan and practices some of the rituals of religious Daoism but has little interest in philosophy.

He considers himself and his students to be "disciples" of the Dao and our primary focus is the cultivation and view.

Philosophy for us is something that simply becomes obvious as a consequence of our life experience in association with our practice. Most of the religious ceremonies relate to certain ceremonial functions that involve lineage ancestors.

 

It is important to acknowledge, however, that there is a role for looking into the historical basis for what exists today. While it is not something that interests me much, I do think there is value there.

[ChiDragon]

- Informed View

Daojia 道家, literally Family of the Dao, and daojiao 道教, literally Teachings of the Dao,

 

 

This is a misconception to begin with. Does anybody know what the real translation of these two terms are......???

Edited September 1, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Mudryah]

Thanks for pointing that out.

[shanlung]

People need to see the truth.

 

The truth with you as the bearer of the only truth?

 

All others are deluded and need to gather the pearls you are casting left and right and all over?

 

We seen bearers of truth and only the truth time and time again until it gets really boring if not confusing.

 

And for some strange reasons, all those love to have titles of PhD and professorship as if the more titles they can hang on themselves, the more truth they can expound.

 

And adding chinese characters making their claims more authentic

 

Give me a break!

 

Idiotic Taoist

[Marblehead]

Is it time for me to get involved in this thread yet?

[Apech]

Is it time for me to get involved in this thread yet?

 

yes ... I want to see a fight

[ChiDragon]

Mudryah......
Please don't be discouraged. I use Chinese Characters in my posts, all the time, and I am proud of it. It might not make it more authentic but it sure make it easy to figure out what the phonetics are.

 

 

yes ... I want to see a fight

That was not very Taoist like............

Edited September 2, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Marblehead]

That was not very Taoist like............

But it was appropriate considering of whom he was speaking.

[Mudryah]

I didn't mean I was the the bearer of the truth I meant that people need to see the truth. But sorry I should have said, "People must decide for themselves of what is the truth."

 

I don't believe in forcing ideas on anyone but to put information out to the public is ok. It's your choice to read it or not.

[Marblehead]

I should have said, "People must decide for themselves of what is the truth."

I like that. Maybe I won't challenge you afterall. But then, ...

[Mudryah]

I'm not here to challenge anyone. I like to know other people's views on life. We all should share something and learn.

[ChiDragon]

I'm not here to challenge anyone. I like to know other people's views on life. We all should share something and learn.

 

No problem, like the old saying:

"Beware that you are not the challenger but the others are."