A sovereign God question

[chegg]

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Edited March 14, 2015 by chegg

[Nungali]

 

I do not have an altar. I am not pagan. It is your assistant. Do not tell me you did not recognize him?

Its your picture ... you put it up ... I have never seen that picture before ... when I DID work at an altar (jokes aside) my assistant was a Deacon ... and s/he certainly did not look like that!

 

The Deacon said lines such as this;

 

“Lord secret and most holy, source of light, source of life, source of love, source of liberty, be thou ever constant and mighty within us, force of energy, fire of motion; with diligence let us ever labour with thee, that we may remain in thine abundant joy.”

 

And

 

“Mysterious Energy, triform , mysterious Matter, in fourfold and sevenfold division, the interplay of which things weave the dance of the Veil of Life upon the Face of the Spirit, let there be Harmony and Beauty in your mystic loves, that in us may be health and wealth and strength and divine pleasure according to the Law of Liberty; let each pursue his Will as a strong man that rejoiceth in his way, as the course of a Star that blazeth for ever among the joyous company of Heaven. “

 

Here is a picture of a Deacon / altar assistant … a little different from your one ??? No ?

 

http://sekhetmaat.com/wiki/images/thumb/04-17_S04_M12_Br._John.jpg/180px-04-17_S04_M12_Br._John.jpg

Edited January 4, 2014 by Nungali

[Isimsiz Biri]

Its your picture ... you put it up ... I have never seen that picture before ... when I DID work at an altar (jokes aside) my assistant was a Deacon ... and s/he certainly did not look like that!

 

The Deacon said lines such as this;

 

“Lord secret and most holy, source of light, source of life, source of love, source of liberty, be thou ever constant and mighty within us, force of energy, fire of motion; with diligence let us ever labour with thee, that we may remain in thine abundant joy.”

 

And

 

“Mysterious Energy, triform , mysterious Matter, in fourfold and sevenfold division, the interplay of which things weave the dance of the Veil of Life upon the Face of the Spirit, let there be Harmony and Beauty in your mystic loves, that in us may be health and wealth and strength and divine pleasure according to the Law of Liberty; let each pursue his Will as a strong man that rejoiceth in his way, as the course of a Star that blazeth for ever among the joyous company of Heaven. “

 

Here is a picture of a Deacon / altar assistant … a little different from your one ??? No ?

 

http://sekhetmaat.com/wiki/images/thumb/04-17_S04_M12_Br._John.jpg/180px-04-17_S04_M12_Br._John.jpg

 

You dance like a belly dancer.

 

While having sex in front of your altar, if you see your altar assistant near you, do not get afraid. After all, it is your old friend of many years.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Isimsiz Biri

[Isimsiz Biri]

Care to post an excerpt from the book ? Posting a paragraph or two would be nice so we can get and idea of the depth of his insight into the spirit world and God. Other than that, I will have to add it to the long list of books I need to read which now totals in at around 2000 ! lol.

 

 

 

Bless you Isimsiz

:wub: :wub:

 

I have an entire chapter but it is in Turkish

 

I sincerely searched for English version as pdf but I could not find it. However, I found this link:

 

http://books.google.com.tr/books?id=_P3t7p-VH9gC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

I can not copy from this link but Chapter 2 "Opening Your Heart" and Chapter 3 "Transforming Your Self" is very very very important.

 

 

Robert Frager is a Harvard-trained psychologist. He is the past president of the Association for Transpersonal Psychology and the founder of the Institute of Transpersonal Psychology, where he is currently Director of the low residency Master of Arts in Spiritual Guidance program and professor of Psychology.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Frager

 

Robert Frager holds seventh dan in aikido.

 

 

 

There are some other youtube videos

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=robert+frager+&sm=3

 

I hope those help.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Isimsiz Biri

[chegg]

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Edited March 14, 2015 by chegg

[3bob]

What I hear is that Sufism (as described) and main stream Islam are largely in irreconcilable dichotomy to each other, not unlike how much of the Old and New Testaments are largely in irreconcilable dichotomy to each other.

 

One can not be a fundamentalist religious fanatic (regardless of any form of religion) and still make claims of having anything to do with spirituality.

Edited January 5, 2014 by 3bob

[h.uriahr]

In the New Testament I see the fundamentalist idea as being the Singular Commandment of LOVE ONE ANOTHER AS CHRIST JESUS LOVES US. I personally see how that bell has rung from the Old Testament to the New Testament to today. I know that many and I mean MANY people would and will argue that but my relationship with my Lord has shown me such. Blessings . And know I didn't mean all that as a direct arguement 3bob.

[3bob]

A direct argument is ok with me because a great deal of the Old Testament (and even some parts of New) would have to be removed to consistently maintain the meaning and teaching of "love one another" in the Bible; why because "God" is also described as a jealous, wrathful Being who often gives orders to kill in the Old Testament. Such killings/murders have been done in the name of "God" for thousands of years by various fanatics of various Abrahamic based religions. Thus exactly which variation of "God" in the Bible the compassionate Jesus is working for is not clear to me via such contradictory doctrines. (and I don't see how such could honestly be clear for anyone else without them really stretching and rationalizing away countless facts of history related to Abrahamic religions!)

Edited January 6, 2014 by 3bob

[chegg]

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Edited March 14, 2015 by chegg

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

I really love that video.

 

I'm glad you're here, chegg.

...

Edited January 6, 2014 by Captain Mar-Vell

[h.uriahr]

A direct argument is ok with me because a great deal of the Old Testament (and even some parts of New) would have to be removed to consistently maintain the meaning and teaching of "love one another" in the Bible; why because "God" is also described as a jealous, wrathful Being who often gives orders to kill in the Old Testament. Such killings/murders have been done in the name of "God" for thousands of years by various fanatics of various Abrahamic based religions. Thus exactly which variation of "God" in the Bible the compassionate Jesus is working for is not clear to me via such contradictory doctrines. (and I don't see how such could honestly be clear for anyone else without them really stretching and rationalizing away countless facts of history related to Abrahamic religions!)

 

And that is a valid argument however some things needed to be done in order to maintain this ringing of the bell. The doctrine is contradictory when wearing those blacked out glasses No stretching needed. I used to wrestle with a lot of things in the OT but not so anymore. Another slight side shift-why is death viewed negatively? Death is a release of limitations. The killings in the OT were necessary for certain reasons. The killings done by men like during the crusades were false. God is not a senseless killing Being. We can discuss the OT killings if need be.

[3bob]

And that is a valid argument however some things needed to be done in order to maintain this ringing of the bell. The doctrine is contradictory when wearing those blacked out glasses No stretching needed. I used to wrestle with a lot of things in the OT but not so anymore. Another slight side shift-why is death viewed negatively? Death is a release of limitations. The killings in the OT were necessary for certain reasons. The killings done by men like during the crusades were false. God is not a senseless killing Being. We can discuss the OT killings if need be.

 

Sounds like you have your rationalizations well in hand, btw all sorts of unnecessary and horrific crap has been going on in the name of an Abrahamic "God" (and other forms of "God") for thousands of years... such glory should be getting very old for any one who exercises critical thinking and feeling !?

[Isimsiz Biri]

What I hear is that Sufism (as described) and main stream Islam are largely in irreconcilable dichotomy to each other, not unlike how much of the Old and New Testaments are largely in irreconcilable dichotomy to each other.

 

One can not be a fundamentalist religious fanatic (regardless of any form of religion) and still make claims of having anything to do with spirituality.

 

Refer to my posts about four levels. You are talking about Sharia level and trying to compare it with Haqiqa and Marifa levels which does not make sense at all.

 

Let me explain that with a brief example. Assume there is a four storeys building. There is a park near the building with high trees. The guy living in the first storey, the ground floor, the sharia level, looks at the park and sees the trees. The guy living at the fourth storey, marifa level, is high enough to see the lake behind the park. The Marifa level guy says to Sharia level guy that there is a lake behind the park. The Sharia level says it is impossible. There are only trees out there. Each man is telling the truth.

Edited January 6, 2014 by Isimsiz Biri

[Isimsiz Biri]

Thanks Isimsiz, those teachings are very much in-line with most of the other teachings I have come across. Now I know about those 'nafs' you talk about all the time. lol.

 

I think I still need to find more in-depth stuff. The google book goes into all the details of acquiring knowledge from the heart. But it doesn't talk very much about the actual knowledge that may come to a person that way (although it does give brief descriptions of what occurs as you penetrate the layers within the spiritual heart). We need to go a bit deeper Isimsiz. DEEPER !

 

 

 

 

Blessings of no more nafs !

:wub: :wub: :wub:

 

I am sure you are wise enough to know that Ilm Ladun can not be given in an open forum. Besides, there is Nungali, Brian and others waiting for my posts in order to make extremely happy jokes about valuable and real info I shared here before.

For instance, I shared a very small Ilm Ladun information about Kutbul Azam (Great Pole) and everybody made jokes. These jokes made them nothing but earn kafarat or karma. Real Information from Divine Realms is very serious business.

 

My advise is to purchase that book and try to do the simple exercises given at the end of each chapter.

 

By the way, every creation has Nafs. The objective is not to kill your Nafs, if you do so, you can not exist. The objective is to purify the Nafs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tazkiah)

Edited January 6, 2014 by Isimsiz Biri

[Isimsiz Biri]

A direct argument is ok with me because a great deal of the Old Testament (and even some parts of New) would have to be removed to consistently maintain the meaning and teaching of "love one another" in the Bible; why because "God" is also described as a jealous, wrathful Being who often gives orders to kill in the Old Testament. Such killings/murders have been done in the name of "God" for thousands of years by various fanatics of various Abrahamic based religions. Thus exactly which variation of "God" in the Bible the compassionate Jesus is working for is not clear to me via such contradictory doctrines. (and I don't see how such could honestly be clear for anyone else without them really stretching and rationalizing away countless facts of history related to Abrahamic religions!)

 

I replied to this argument before. It is the nature of human obeying Nafs committing murders although there are open statements against killing in Abrahamic religions. Thus, if you want to blame somebody, it is humanity not Abrahamic religions. There are many Buddhists out there doing evil things. There are many Atheists out there doing evil tihings. The problem is independent of one's religion.

Edited January 6, 2014 by Isimsiz Biri

[Brian]

 

I am sure you are wise enough to know that Ilm Ladun can not be given in an open forum. Besides, there is Nungali, Brian and others waiting for my posts in order to make extremely happy jokes about valuable and real info I shared here before.

For instance, I shared a very small Ilm Ladun information about Kutbul Azam (Great Pole) and everybody made jokes. These jokes made them nothing but earn kafarat or karma. Real Information from Divine Realms is very serious business.

 

My advise is to purchase that book and try to do the simple exercises given at the end of each chapter.

 

By the way, every creation has Nafs. The objective is not to kill your Nafs, if you do so, you can not exist. The objective is to purify the Nafs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tazkiah)

On the contrary, IB, I have learned much from you about Sufism and have thanked you for that which you have shared in good faith. I previously asked you questions to which you gave honest answers and I openly appreciated that.

 

The problem arose when I refused to swallow the nonsense with which men have surrounded Islam, just as I reject the nonsense surrounding every other religion I have studied. I poked fun at some of this nonsense, too. I've poked fun at some of the other religions of the world on this forum from time to time but, curiously, acolytes of only one religion have responded by branding me soldier of Satan, personally insulting me, and making thinly veiled but impotent (and hence not reported) threats of violence.

 

As to Kutbul Azam, I found the story intriguing and asked you for more information. You replied that you would not give me one glass of water on a rainy day (which I guess was supposed to be an insult, too). I then did some research on my own and posted what I had learned, which you called "bullshit." I explained that this was precisely why I had asked YOU for information in the first place, to which you basically responded that I was lacking the intelligence to understand and the merit to receive such information. Well, here -- I'll link to a few of the posts in that conversation.

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/32776-what-do-you-think-they-think-we-worship/page-2#entry500776

http://thetaobums.com/topic/32776-what-do-you-think-they-think-we-worship/page-3#entry501028

http://thetaobums.com/topic/32776-what-do-you-think-they-think-we-worship/page-3#entry501033

http://thetaobums.com/topic/32776-what-do-you-think-they-think-we-worship/page-3#entry501049

http://thetaobums.com/topic/32776-what-do-you-think-they-think-we-worship/page-3#entry501068

http://thetaobums.com/topic/32776-what-do-you-think-they-think-we-worship/page-4#entry501075

 

The abuse continues for anyone wishing to read on -- also included a curious exchange about our names, I thought...

 

In THIS thread, I read the excerpt you shared from the Heart, Self & Soul e-book and found it very interesting. Thank you for that!

 

What disturbs me, though, is the sharp contrast between the professed philosophies and the personal words/actions of not just you but every Sufi whose behavior I have observed on the Internet. I understand the four levels thing (and have discussed with some members here the parallels I see with many other religions in this regard) and recognize that the garden-variety Muslim is merely at the Sharia level (and therefore, I guess, shouldn't be considered in any way representative of Islam?) but every Imam, cleric or self-proclaimed Sufi I encounter (either in person or turns out to behave in a manner consistent with those base Sharia advocates rather than in a manner which reflects the lofty & admirable religion they claim Islam to be. Just one of those things that makes me go "Hmmm..."

[3bob]

"...What disturbs me, though, is the sharp contrast between the professed philosophies and the personal words/actions of not just you but every Sufi whose behavior I have observed on the Internet. I understand the four levels thing (and have discussed with some members here the parallels I see with many other religions in this regard) and recognize that the garden-variety Muslim is merely at the Sharia level (and therefore, I guess, shouldn't be considered in any way representative of Islam?) but every Imam, cleric or self-proclaimed Sufi I encounter (either in person or turns out to behave in a manner consistent with those base Sharia advocates rather than in a manner which reflects the lofty & admirable religion they claim Islam to be. Just one of those things that makes me go "Hmmm..." "

 

I second that Hmmm... (for this an many other religions with similar situations)

Edited January 6, 2014 by 3bob

[chegg]

/please ignore unless you want 'questionable' entertainment

 

"Things that make you go Hmmmm...."

 

 

 

Sorry but I actually did like that song once upon a time !

Edited January 6, 2014 by chegg

[Brian]

That was my inspiration, Cheng, but I didn't search for the video. .

[chegg]

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Edited March 14, 2015 by chegg

[3bob]

Chegg, Brian said that I just seconded it...

 

ummm... there is that saying that, "it is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness..."

 

also a great master would not have to think about what someone was saying if it was criticism, they would know. As to what they would do about it who knows except how the spirit moves them to do so. One example is that Jesus could turn the other cheek but to many cultures and their related religions that would be a sign of weakness. (for instance some carry out what to them are justified beatings or even killings for one only speaking verbal insults, having differences of opinion, or not wearing a head covering)

[chegg]

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Edited March 14, 2015 by chegg

[chegg]

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Edited March 14, 2015 by chegg

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

I love that graphic.

 

I wonder if I could put that on my blog.

 

Thanks so much for the link chegg!

 

But you're making me cry mentioning lego.

 

Great Architect doth love his lego,

And he the one that hath no ego.

 

Krishna consciousness ain't no picnic.

 

Why does it have to be like this chegg?

...

[chegg]

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Edited March 14, 2015 by chegg