A sovereign God question

[3bob]

What is inside the "God" is no greater in essence than what is inside me or you. (with the word "inside" not covering the full meaning)

Edited November 5, 2013 by 3bob

[GrandmasterP]

That 'sovereign God' when used by certain Christian groups is a bit too triumphalist for my taste.

The Christian mystics though they seem to have the right idea for example..

 

"In this vision he showed me a little thing, the size of a hazelnut, and it

was round as a ball. I looked at it with the eye of my understanding and

thought "What may this be?" And it was generally answered thus: "It is all that is

made." I marvelled how it might last, for it seemed it might suddenly have

sunk into nothing because of its littleness. And I was answered in my

understanding: "It lasts and ever shall, because God loves it."

 

-- Julian of Norwich

 

[Isimsiz Biri]

How many here have experienced "God" as a sovereign Being?

 

How many here believe in God as a sovereign Being?

 

How many wonder why God is not acting as a sovereign Being when it comes to mankind on Earth?

(going by all or many indications)

 

Also, is a sovereign God 100% responsible and accountable for his creation(s), just as we are 100% responsible and accountable for our karma? (although we do get help with it)

 

 

There are many things such that they can not be explained. However, God's bright black Nur, energy can be observed by everyone who could see astral realms.

 

Definitely, God exists.

 

Prophet Muhammad made Isra and Mi'raj. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isra_and_Mi'raj) He has perceived God Almighty. High saints of Islam also made Mi'raj, generally during their sleep.

Edited November 7, 2013 by Isimsiz Biri

[LeoViridis]

If there is a God, what would be the point of him involving himself directly with human lives? It would take away all the meaning of living in my opinion.

[chegg]

Here are a couple of quotes.

 

 

Quote 1:

 

Look inside your own masters heart.....GOD is eternal, unqualified, perfect divine energy. GOD is not just love. GOD is all things, and is no more love than hate, no more tenderness than fury. GOD is the creative energy which is 'in' but 'not of' earthly and physical things. GOD is not anything less than the totality...GOD is perfect energy, perfect radiance. But he is unnamable....You know GOD only when you have the divine experience, when you raise out of your own flesh the radiant GOD that is intombed there."

 

 

Quote 2:

 

"What we know of God we see in reflection as witnessed both externally and internally. Absolute Beingness (GOD) is, above all, the Divine Common Selfhood, as Beings within the One Being. Love, Light and Life belong to the primary Nature of Absolute Beingness as Total Love, Total Wisdom and Total Almightiness.

The Love of God is universal, ceaseless, and unconditional. It is the Love of God, expressed as Grace, which lies at the core of Creation. The Light is pure, luminous Super Self-consciousness. Everlasting Life is the eternal motion, generation and regeneration of Its expression. Other characteristics of Absolute Beingness, in Its Omnipresence, include Multiplicity, Self-sufficiency and the Will-pleasure to express Itself in Itself as Creation. Absolute Beingness (GOD) manifests Itself as the Logos and the Holy Spirit, ( 'and these three are one' -1 John 5:7 )."

Edited November 14, 2013 by chegg

[Isimsiz Biri]

Here are a couple of quotes.

 

 

Quote 1:

 

Look inside your own masters heart.....GOD is eternal, unqualified, perfect divine energy. GOD is not just love. GOD is all things, and is no more love than hate, no more tenderness than fury. GOD is the creative energy which is 'in' but 'not of' earthly and physical things. GOD is not anything less than the totality...GOD is perfect energy, perfect radiance. But he is unnamable....You know GOD only when you have the divine experience, when you raise out of your own flesh the radiant GOD that is intombed there."

 

 

Quote 2:

 

"What we know of God we see in reflection as witnessed both externally and internally. Absolute Beingness (GOD) is, above all, the Divine Common Selfhood, as Beings within the One Being. Love, Light and Life belong to the primary Nature of Absolute Beingness as Total Love, Total Wisdom and Total Almightiness.

 

The Love of God is universal, ceaseless, and unconditional. It is the Love of God, expressed as Grace, which lies at the core of Creation. The Light is pure, luminous Super Self-consciousness. Everlasting Life is the eternal motion, generation and regeneration of Its expression. Other characteristics of Absolute Beingness, in Its Omnipresence, include Multiplicity, Self-sufficiency and the Will-pleasure to express Itself in Itself as Creation. Absolute Beingness (GOD) manifests Itself as the Logos and the Holy Spirit, ( 'and these three are one' -1 John 5:7 )."

 

 

Please refer to Beautiful Names of God

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God_in_Islam

 

God is not only love. I agree with my all heart.

[chegg]

I find the best way to get to know about God without actually knowing him via direct experiences is by examining my relationship with my own children.

 

Since we are most likely made in God's image, we simply need to understand that God looks upon us as we would look upon our own creation (our children).

 

For example, if I had 1000 children and they all started misbehaving (stabbing each other, killing, drug dealing, stealing, worshiping other false fathers, etc..) then I would start to get a little concerned that my children are suffering by this behaviour. But I would still love them all because they are my children even though they have forgotten who I was.

 

The first thing I would do is give them a few commandments to try to live by. The next thing I would do is to present myself to them, heal some of them and try to show them the way, the truth and the life. But I would especially help those that ask me for help. I would send them an ally.

 

My children also have free will which is really wonderful to watch them do things on their own. I would probably not interfere with this.

Edited November 26, 2013 by chegg

[Isimsiz Biri]

I find the best way to get to know about God without actually knowing him via direct experiences is by examining my relationship with my own children.

 

Since we are most likely made in God's image, we simply need to understand that God looks upon us as we would look upon our own creation (our children).

 

For example, if I had 1000 children and they all started misbehaving (stabbing each other, killing, drug dealing, stealing, worshiping other false fathers, etc..) then I would start to get a little concerned that my children are suffering by this behaviour. But I would still love them all because they are my children even though they have forgotten who I was.

 

The first thing I would do is give them a few commandments to try to live by. The next thing I would do is to present myself to them, heal some of them and try to show them the way, the truth and the life. But I would especially help those that ask me for help. I would send them an ally.

 

My children also have free will which is really wonderful to watch them do things on their own. I would probably not interfere with this.

 

God Almighty always help us through our spiritual guides.

 

Throughout history, Prophets and saints lived among us to show the right way to us.

 

Also, every human has a spiritual guide. This is very important. Our spiritual guides are the representatives of Divine Realms.

 

Every human has also Nafs (self) and personal Satan.

 

It is your decision. Will you follow the right way? Or will you follow the evil way?

[adept]

I suppose I've always believed in a Creator ever since I was a child and never really got the evolution story at all. I was convinced that we were created. After some research into Intelligent Design and especially the work of Stephen C Meyer, it all started to make scientific sense, not just blind faith and belief.

Then I watched this and it blew me away :

http://youtu.be/ZS1x-6al2pE

 

God is absolutely beyond comprehension.

 

Qur'an 30:27 'He is the One who originates creation and will do it again-this is even easier for him. He is above all comparison in the heavens and the earth; He is the Almighty, the One who Governs'

[Isimsiz Biri]

I suppose I've always believed in a Creator ever since I was a child and never really got the evolution story at all. I was convinced that we were created. After some research into Intelligent Design and especially the work of Stephen C Meyer, it all started to make scientific sense, not just blind faith and belief.

Then I watched this and it blew me away :

http://youtu.be/ZS1x-6al2pE

 

God is absolutely beyond comprehension.

 

Qur'an 30:27 'He is the One who originates creation and will do it again-this is even easier for him. He is above all comparison in the heavens and the earth; He is the Almighty, the One who Governs'

 

I could not watch the videos, but I agree with your words with all my heart.

 

Thank you.

[adept]

I could not watch the videos, but I agree with your words with all my heart.

 

Thank you.

 

Thank you for your comment. If you get the chance to watch the videos I'm sure they will resonate with you.

[Isimsiz Biri]

Thank you for your comment. If you get the chance to watch the videos I'm sure they will resonate with you.

 

I briefly looked at the videos, too long for a busy man like me to watch. Due to my personal experiences, I can assure you those videos are nothing. You will be left in tears, only if you can talk to your spiritual guide only.

[adept]

I briefly looked at the videos, too long for a busy man like me to watch. Due to my personal experiences, I can assure you those videos are nothing. You will be left in tears, only if you can talk to your spiritual guide only.

 

I find myself in tears at the magnitude and complexity of Creation, and of the Creator who produced it.

Such complexity and magnitude can surely not be the result of rocks crashing into each other.

Therefore I need no spiritual guide. God is enough.

[baiqi]

Simply put: no I don't believe in a "Sovereign God".

 

There is the great unity of beings, a ruling principle, but not a "King of the Universe" or anything like that.

[deci belle]

There is no sovereign god.

 

The sovereign god concept is a construed deification of human egohood.

 

Reality is a mystery which is possible to enter and function within by virtue of selfless awareness.

 

Awareness is itself selfless. God is a demiurge employed by people.

[Isimsiz Biri]

I find myself in tears at the magnitude and complexity of Creation, and of the Creator who produced it.

Such complexity and magnitude can surely not be the result of rocks crashing into each other.

Therefore I need no spiritual guide. God is enough.

 

No, I could not explain.

 

There is a spiritual guide of every person including yourself.

 

Your spiritual guide can be either a spirit or an angel.

 

They are referred in Holy Quran as:

(82:10) "And indeed, [appointed] over you are keepers,"

(86:4) "There is no soul but that it has over it a protector."

 

This spiritual guide has the duty to protect you. You may think your Spiritual Guide as a representative of God Almighty.

 

P.S. In the famous book "Magus of Java" page 124, the higher being who talks to John Chang was not God Almighty but it was the spiritual guide of John Chang. The spiritual guide talked in the name of God.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Isimsiz Biri

[Isimsiz Biri]

There is no sovereign god.

 

The sovereign god concept is a construed deification of human egohood.

 

Reality is a mystery which is possible to enter and function within by virtue of selfless awareness.

 

Awareness is itself selfless. God is a demiurge employed by people.

 

I respect your views although I disagree with them.

[Isimsiz Biri]

Simply put: no I don't believe in a "Sovereign God".

 

There is the great unity of beings, a ruling principle, but not a "King of the Universe" or anything like that.

 

The Creator is not the King or top level manager only. Creation is a very different aspect than management.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Isimsiz Biri

[deci belle]

Ooops!! I forgot the most important part, Biri~ and that is that there is no creator. Since it is a fact that essential nature is itself uncreated, I propose that creators of any stripe cannot create the uncreated.

[chegg]

Since I can't prove to anyone that there is or isn't a sovereign God, I will shut up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

but I will say.......

 

Blessings of finding the Absolute Truth to everyone in this forum !! :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub:

Edited December 6, 2013 by chegg

[3bob]

_{no need to prove or disprove since such is not really possible with the mind...}

_{for such can only be alluded to not nailed down.}

Edited December 6, 2013 by 3bob

[Isimsiz Biri]

Ooops!! I forgot the most important part, Biri~ and that is that there is no creator. Since it is a fact that essential nature is itself uncreated, I propose that creators of any stripe cannot create the uncreated.

 

 

On the contrary, there IS Creator. The tricky point you are missing is, the Creator existed even with nothingness, or Mu ("It does not exist" in Japanese) God Almighty has the property to include nothingness and out of that nothingness, the creation started. It is a very very very difficult concept for human mind, in fact it is not possible to fully understand it.

 

You touched a very very very,,,,(you got it) important point. I would certainly like to discuss this issue over Skype face to face. It does not matter you do not believe. It matters you are thinking with a free mind. Trust me, the "love" in Sufism is the love for this point. The limitlessness of God Almighty and the inclusion of nothingness and creation, 0 and 1 in God. If you see it in the astral planes with your third eye, you fall in love and you become "drunk" although you had no alcohol. The "drunk by love" is the most similar situation in human emotions thus it is used as a metaphor but it is not comparable to love that you feel for your spouse or darling. This "love" is much much much more deeper. Then, you begin to cry in tears. If you live that "ecstasy", you would immediately become a Muslim.

 

Mushin, The nonexistence of mind in Japanese martial arts, is directly related with this point of Sufism.

 

I am forcing to stop writing at this point, as I got really emotional.

 

Thank you.

[3bob]

Isimsiz,

I'm glad for you in feeling your inspiration but remember this is originally a Taoist forum thus I think proclaiming people will "immediately become Muslim" is not kosher in said context like it would or might be at a Muslim site. Granted I started this string to stir the pot somewhat but not in the sense to insist or infer that one raft is better than another raft....

 

Anyway, from my experience I would venture sharing that upon realization one immediately becomes what they already are, which is not limited to any-thing of this world or of the astral realms as you have mentioned - or of any other woven realm.

 

Om

[Isimsiz Biri]

Isimsiz,

I'm glad for you in feeling your inspiration but remember this is originally a Taoist forum thus I think proclaiming people will "immediately become Muslim" is not kosher in said context like it would or might be at a Muslim site. Granted I started this string to stir the pot somewhat but not in the sense to insist or infer that one raft is better than another raft....

 

Anyway, from my experience I would venture sharing that upon realization one immediately becomes what they already are, which is not limited to any-thing of this world or of the astral realms as you have mentioned - or of any other woven realm.

 

Om

 

 

3bob,

 

Please write my name fully.

 

If this is a Daoist Forum, then I am Brad Pitt.

 

If you look at my sentence I used the word "would" not "will", not "shall" not "should" not "ought to be"

 

I am definitely aware that deci belle will not be a Muslim. Do not worry.

 

If anybody realizes what he/she is, but really is as you claim, that person will become a Muslim at that instant. This realization includes both physical and astral realms.

 

Wa alaykumu s-salam

[3bob]

Ok Mr. Biri,

 

I feel this is a Taoist forum at heart that allows all sorts of goings on out of tolerance for same, something which you who sounds like a fanatical variation of Islam does not seem to understand.... Btw, any true saint of any religion has gone beyond religion and does not need to or want to force their chosen path, vision or doctrine upon anyone else, since doing so would be a "sin". Also neither you, me nor anyone else is definitely aware of what someone else will be, not be, or think... Thus I suggest the dropping your fanaticism or at least keep it to yourself and your like minded associates.

 

Om