A sovereign God question

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

Well I don't think I was exactly prepared for when that blazing golden disc/sphere radiating streamers of golden em energy thingy appeared over my head and sent down its messenger to me.

 

No, I wasn't prepared for that at all.

...

[3bob]

on the other hand that graph is taking a lot of liberties on interpretation and various correlations that some would not agree upon, as in throwing everything into one big pot. (I don't know of anyone who could keep a lid on such a pot )

[silent thunder]

I found a nice representation of a few religions and their 'deeper' counterparts (source: http://www.iawwai.com/TruthBehindReligion.htm).

 

 

 

 

 

 

The red dot in the middle looks rather important

 

 

blessings

 

Seriously love that graphic...

Years ago I had that image pop in my head... the outer rings are the names we give...

to the experience we have at the center. That experience transcends names/ideas/concepts.

 

Arguments abound in the outer ring.

But we all stem from One Source.

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

Ha ha ha!

 

That's right!

 

Now we Align!

 

Combine!

...

Edited January 7, 2014 by Captain Mar-Vell

[Isimsiz Biri]

On the contrary, IB, I have learned much from you about Sufism and have thanked you for that which you have shared in good faith. I previously asked you questions to which you gave honest answers and I openly appreciated that.

 

The problem arose when I refused to swallow the nonsense with which men have surrounded Islam, just as I reject the nonsense surrounding every other religion I have studied. I poked fun at some of this nonsense, too. I've poked fun at some of the other religions of the world on this forum from time to time but, curiously, acolytes of only one religion have responded by branding me soldier of Satan, personally insulting me, and making thinly veiled but impotent (and hence not reported) threats of violence.

 

As to Kutbul Azam, I found the story intriguing and asked you for more information. You replied that you would not give me one glass of water on a rainy day (which I guess was supposed to be an insult, too). I then did some research on my own and posted what I had learned, which you called "bullshit." I explained that this was precisely why I had asked YOU for information in the first place, to which you basically responded that I was lacking the intelligence to understand and the merit to receive such information. Well, here -- I'll link to a few of the posts in that conversation.

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/32776-what-do-you-think-they-think-we-worship/page-2#entry500776

http://thetaobums.com/topic/32776-what-do-you-think-they-think-we-worship/page-3#entry501028

http://thetaobums.com/topic/32776-what-do-you-think-they-think-we-worship/page-3#entry501033

http://thetaobums.com/topic/32776-what-do-you-think-they-think-we-worship/page-3#entry501049

http://thetaobums.com/topic/32776-what-do-you-think-they-think-we-worship/page-3#entry501068

http://thetaobums.com/topic/32776-what-do-you-think-they-think-we-worship/page-4#entry501075

 

The abuse continues for anyone wishing to read on -- also included a curious exchange about our names, I thought...

 

In THIS thread, I read the excerpt you shared from the Heart, Self & Soul e-book and found it very interesting. Thank you for that!

 

What disturbs me, though, is the sharp contrast between the professed philosophies and the personal words/actions of not just you but every Sufi whose behavior I have observed on the Internet. I understand the four levels thing (and have discussed with some members here the parallels I see with many other religions in this regard) and recognize that the garden-variety Muslim is merely at the Sharia level (and therefore, I guess, shouldn't be considered in any way representative of Islam?) but every Imam, cleric or self-proclaimed Sufi I encounter (either in person or turns out to behave in a manner consistent with those base Sharia advocates rather than in a manner which reflects the lofty & admirable religion they claim Islam to be. Just one of those things that makes me go "Hmmm..."

 

Brian,

 

When somebody attacks me or posts a counter argument against me, you like that post immediately independent of the nature of that post. I am aware of that. You do not like me. You do not have to.

 

I am trying to show the truths in my posts. Do you get them? A small percentage of them, yes you do.

 

Coming to your Hmmm issue, I explained millions of times that people are not repeat are not representatives of religions. Do you want to learn about Islam? Read Holy Quran. Full stop. What will happen to those Imams or Sheikhs who are doing bad things? It is NOT your problem. It is their problem.

 

Holy Quran, Surat Az-Zalzalah (The Earthquake), 99^th Sura,

(http://quran.com/99)

(99:1) When the earth is shaken with its [final] earthquake,

(99:2) And the earth discharges its burdens

(99:3) And man says, "What is [wrong] with it?"

(99:4) That Day, it will report its news

(99:5) Because your Lord has commanded it.

(99:6) That Day, the people will depart separated [into categories] to be shown [the result of] their deeds.

(99:7) So whoever does an atom's weight of good will see it,

(99:8) And whoever does an atom's weight of evil will see it.

Edited January 8, 2014 by Isimsiz Biri

[Isimsiz Biri]

I found a nice representation of a few religions and their 'deeper' counterparts (source: http://www.iawwai.com/TruthBehindReligion.htm).

 

 

 

 

 

 

The red dot in the middle looks rather important

 

 

blessings

 

Holy Quran, Surat Ar-Rūm (The Romans), 30^th Sura, 30^th Ayah,

(30:30)

(http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=30&verse=30)

Sahih International: So direct your face toward the religion, inclining to truth. [Adhere to] the fitrah of Allah upon which He has created [all] people. No change should there be in the creation of Allah. That is the correct religion, but most of the people do not know.

Pickthall: So set thy purpose (O Muhammad) for religion as a man by nature upright - the nature (framed) of Allah, in which He hath created man. There is no altering (the laws of) Allah's creation. That is the right religion, but most men know not -

Yusuf Ali: So set thou thy face steadily and truly to the Faith: (establish) Allah's handiwork according to the pattern on which He has made mankind: no change (let there be) in the work (wrought) by Allah: that is the standard Religion: but most among mankind understand not.

Shakir: Then set your face upright for religion in the right state-- the nature made by Allah in which He has made men; there is no altering of Allah's creation; that is the right religion, but most people do not know--

Muhammad Sarwar: (Muhammad), be devoted to the upright religion. It is harmonious with the nature which God has designed for people. The design of God cannot be altered. Thus is the upright religion, but many people do not know.

Mohsin Khan: So set you (O Muhammad SAW) your face towards the religion of pure Islamic Monotheism Hanifa (worship none but Allah Alone) Allah's Fitrah (i.e. Allah's Islamic Monotheism), with which He has created mankind. No change let there be in Khalq­illah (i.e. the Religion of Allah Islamic Monotheism), that is the straight religion, but most of men know not. [Tafsir At­Tabari, Vol 21, Page 41]

Arberry: So set thy face to the religion, a man of pure faith -- God's original upon which He originated mankind. There is no changing God's creation. That is the right religion; but most men know it not --

 

Chegg,

 

There is only one religion in God's court. This religion has not been changed for billions of years and will not be changed for billions of years.. So your graph is not true at all from Divine Realms point of view.

Edited January 8, 2014 by Isimsiz Biri

[chegg]

.

Edited March 14, 2015 by chegg

[3bob]

Pardon me for butting in Chegg but I will bet you $10,000.00 that Mr. Biri will not agree with your main points in the last post;

 

another problem is in understanding your "main points" from an esoteric framework of meaning, thus if one doesn't have that understanding they don't really know what Jesus meant except from a fundamentalist Christian framework which brings us back to irreconcilable dichotomy among Abrahamic religions, and also for billions of people of other religions or ways.

(which btw is not a blessing of tolerance)

[chegg]

.

Edited March 14, 2015 by chegg

[Isimsiz Biri]

Hi Isimsiz !

 

I would partialy agree with you. I think it is very approximate (the labels in the digram maybe a little obscure/incorrect). But I think the intended purpose of the graph is to give someone an idea that there is a deeper knowledge attainable from each of the (apparently) superficial mainstream religions - this part is correct (I hope you would agree with this point at least).

 

I don't think anyone can use human reason to make sense of absolute truth (God and his spirit world) and therefore, no human can transmit that knowledge accurately to someone else by a graph, sentence, text, teaching, bible or otherwise . But they can talk in terms of relative truths which maybe different from one teaching to the next or from one person to the next.

 

Also, recall what Jesus said in the bible:-

 

"No one gets to the Father unless its through me"

 

That statement right there, is a show stopper for just about every other religion, teaching, text, graffiti or rumour....... including your quran teachings

 

So who do I believe Isimsiz, WHO ?

 

 

(edit: no need to answer that, it was a bit of a rhetorical question)

 

 

Blessings of Tolerance

:wub: :wub: :wub:

 

The point that you did not understand is: religions have been stated by Prophets according to evolution level of that spesific society. So it as the humans evolve the religion that has been given to humanity has also evolved. This evolution ended with the last Prophet, Prophet Muhammad and Islam. I do not know if you are familiar with construction projects but it is similar to evolution of a project from Rev:0 to Latest Revision. Thus, the 99 Beautiful Names of God were not given to humanity by Prophet Moses or Prophet Jesus Christ as the humanity simply was not ready for them.

 

So if you show Islam with equal shares from the pie with other religions, it is not correct. The 360^o circle is Islam, the valid religion in God's court.

 

Who do you believe? I hope you believe GOD

Edited January 8, 2014 by Isimsiz Biri

[thelerner]

So if you show Islam with equal shares from the pie with other religions, it is not correct. The 360^o circle is Islam, the valid religion in God's court.

Who do you believe? I hope you believe GOD

Hmmm, thats what they All say. Literally, except they fill in the blank with their own prophet and name of deity. Ones own holy book is sublime to ones own ear, but meaningless to others. I think it makes sense to look at core values as in CCheggs chart to find similar aims at holiness.

 

I think how the people act is important. Very important. If a society conduct themselves poorly, it should reflect badly on their religion. A big part of religion is to teach moral conduct. If people aren't acting morally I blame the religion. That being said, things change from generation to generation. Sometimes you have to make allowances. And beware of comparing the 'best of mine to the worst of yours'.

[chegg]

.

Edited March 14, 2015 by chegg

[Green Tiger]

God (the Father) as a sovereign Being, that is pretty straightforward.

 

I recently mentioned in another thread that I had an experience where I connected with a spirit that I associated more with a female energy. Could 'God' be a mother? If you believe the creator/creation relationship, a mother kind of makes more sense.

 

I also got the impression that what I felt was something deeply connected to the Earth, though. So maybe Gaia? *shrug*

 

Someone who is more experienced with talking to spirits once told me that I had some sort of connection to the 'Virgin Mary' or mother spirit. She didn't really elaborate, but when she told me that, the first thing I thought of was that experience.

 

The impression I took away from it was that she was very sad. Sad for her children.

Edited January 8, 2014 by Green Tiger

[3bob]

Yes, the great Earth soul is of motherly nature, singing with heart breaking beauty!

(there is sadness but not a breaking apart because of it)

Edited January 9, 2014 by 3bob

[3bob]

"This evolution ended with the last Prophet, Prophet Muhammad and Islam" quoted from Mr. Biri

 

Going by that statement God has done nothing new spiritually since around 632 AD, which is nuts imo.

[silent thunder]

I hear all this talk about the 'word of god'

and it's always a human talking...

[3bob]

Hello silent thunder,

 

"Everything you Love and Everything you Hate, come from the Same Source"

 

Ime this saying can easily be misunderstood... since only the first and purest prana/light/sound comes from the source after that there are countless permutations in which that which came from the Source can begin to end up twisted, thus spiritual darkness does not come from the Source per-se for it is only purity or pure energy twisted up, untwist it and spiritual darkness is no more.

Edited January 9, 2014 by 3bob

[silent thunder]

I'll light a candle to that...

[silent thunder]

I hear all this talk about the 'word of god'

and it's always a human talking...

 

and then of course, my randomly appearing, inner-hindu persona pops his head in and says...

of course it's the word of god...

[Isimsiz Biri]

Hmmm, thats what they All say. Literally, except they fill in the blank with their own prophet and name of deity. Ones own holy book is sublime to ones own ear, but meaningless to others. I think it makes sense to look at core values as in CCheggs chart to find similar aims at holiness.

 

I think how the people act is important. Very important. If a society conduct themselves poorly, it should reflect badly on their religion. A big part of religion is to teach moral conduct. If people aren't acting morally I blame the religion. That being said, things change from generation to generation. Sometimes you have to make allowances. And beware of comparing the 'best of mine to the worst of yours'.

 

This point of view is very attractive. You put a distance between yourself and all religions and put them all of them in the same basket. I know it because I had been there.

 

When the Day of Resurrection comes everybody will see which side is right. Thus, I am very comfortable.

 

Again I would like to emphasize to correct the common misunderstanding which thelerner states. I am not saying "Mine is best, the others are worst" Not at all. What I am saying is "Mine is the only and complete one because all is one, one is all. Everything comes from God and returns to God".

[Isimsiz Biri]

Thanks Isimsiz !

 

Good point. But just because another religion maybe newer on the scene does not necessarily make it more or less valid. Just like brand new construction projects can fall and collapse due to really bad design and foundations.

 

Remember that both bible scripture and experience declare that there are true prophets and false prophets. Hundreds of verses in the Bible speak of the faithful prophets that God used to teach, lead and correct his people. Moses was God's prophet(Deut 18:15). Balaam was an unfaithful or false prophet.(Num 22:7-32). Those who read the sacred history of the ancient Hebrews will note the constant conflict between true prophets of God such as Jeremiah and Ezekiel and an endless parade of wicked men like Hananiah the false prophet (Jer 28:1-17). Jesus warned of “false prophets who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves”(Matt 7:15) (where is that Picture Dorian ?).

 

"For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect." (Matt 24:24)

 

“The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone forces his way into it." (Luke 16:16)

 

So, according to the bible, the 360^o degree Pie you claim is certainly not correct and it doesn't support the idea that 'future prophets' or newer religions should take more of the pie.

 

e.g. When Jesus Christ said in the bible:- "No one gets to the Father unless its through me"

 

Going by that statement. The pie should be 360^o Christianity !!!

 

 

I think most of us believe in a (sovereign) God. The question is, what is the best way to get there. Isimsiz, WHAT IS THE ........

BEST WAY ????? (and why ?)

 

edit: the answer to that may go on forever, lol.

 

 

Blessings of joyful counter arguments !

:wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub:

 

It is a rather disappointment.

 

A very big one.

 

So you bring the matter down to Islam vs. Christianity? I am seeing this Crusader spirit never dies.

 

I will tell that I am much more close to Prophet Jesus Christ than you. MUCH MORE CLOSER.

 

The real, unaltered Gospel is waiting underground to be discovered. Not in Greek language of course.

 

You will see the same verse also given in the Gospel of Barnabas. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Barnabas)

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Barnabas#Prediction_of_Muhammad

 

The Gospel of Barnabas claims that Jesus predicted the advent of Muhammad, thus conforming with the Qur'an which mentions:

 

And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: O Children of Israel! I am the apostle of God (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad. But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, this is evident sorcery!

—

Sura 61

:6

[1]

(Ahmad is another name of Muhammad.) A Muslim scholarly tradition links this Qur'anic passage to the New Testament references to the Paraclete (John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7). The Greek word "paraclete" can be translated as "Counsellor", and refers according to Christians to the Holy Spirit. Some Muslim scholars, have noted the similarity to the Greek "peryklytos" which can be translated as "admirable one"; or in Arabic, "Ahmad".^[49]

The name of "Muhammad" is frequently mentioned verbatim in the Gospel of Barnabas, as in the following quote:

 

Jesus answered: "The name of the Messiah is admirable, for God himself gave him the name when he had created his soul, and placed it in a celestial splendour. God said: 'Wait Mohammed; for thy sake I will to create paradise, the world, and a great multitude of creatures, whereof I make thee a present, insomuch that whoso bless thee shall be blessed, and whoso shall curse thee shall be accursed. When I shall send thee into the world I shall send thee as my messenger of salvation, and thy word shall be true, insomuch that heaven and earth shall fail, but thy faith shall never fail.' Mohammed is his blessed name." Then the crowd lifted up their voices, saying: "O God, send us thy messenger: O Admirable One, come quickly for the salvation of the world!"

—

Barnabas 97:9-10

The Italian manuscript replaces "Admirable One" with "Muhammad".[2]

However, while there are many passages where the Gospel of Barnabas sets out alternative readings to parallel pericopes found in the canonical gospels, none of the references to Muhammad by name occurs in such a synoptic passage; and in particular, none of the "Muhammad" references in Barnabas corresponds to a "Paraclete" reference in canonical John. There is only one instance where the Gospel of Barnabas might be understood as "correcting" a known canonical pericope, so as to record a prophecy by Jesus of the (unnamed) Messenger of God:

 

Then Jesus said: "I am a voice that cries through all Judea, and cries: 'Prepare you the way for the messenger of the Lord', even as it is written in Esaias." They said: "If you be not the Messiah nor Elijah, or any prophet, wherefore do you preach new doctrine, and make yourself of more account than the Messiah?" Jesus answered: "The miracles which God works by my hands show that I speak that which God wills; nor indeed do I make myself to be accounted as him of whom you speak. For I am not worthy to unloose the ties of the hosen or the ratchets of the shoes of the Messenger of God whom you call 'Messiah', who was made before me, and shall come after me, and shall bring the words of truth, so that his faith shall have no end."

—Chapter 43

This passage corresponds closely with the canonical John 1:19-30, except that in that passage, the words are spoken by John the Baptist (in the Qur'an; Yahya ibn Zakariya) and refer to Jesus.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Isimsiz Biri

[Isimsiz Biri]

I recently mentioned in another thread that I had an experience where I connected with a spirit that I associated more with a female energy. Could 'God' be a mother? If you believe the creator/creation relationship, a mother kind of makes more sense.

 

I also got the impression that what I felt was something deeply connected to the Earth, though. So maybe Gaia? *shrug*

 

Someone who is more experienced with talking to spirits once told me that I had some sort of connection to the 'Virgin Mary' or mother spirit. She didn't really elaborate, but when she told me that, the first thing I thought of was that experience.

 

The impression I took away from it was that she was very sad. Sad for her children.

 

God is not mother. God Almighty is not born. God Almighty does not give birth. God Almighty creates.

 

The Earth is in very deep pain because of humanitys actions. So is Mother Mary. So is Prophet Jesus Christ. Looking at your description, it looks like you connected to a positive energy but any way it must checked whether it is positive or negative.

Negs love to imitate positives and deceive people.

[Isimsiz Biri]

"This evolution ended with the last Prophet, Prophet Muhammad and Islam" quoted from Mr. Biri

 

Going by that statement God has done nothing new spiritually since around 632 AD, which is nuts imo.

 

I meant that the evolution of people by Prophets ended with Prophet Muhammad. Please do not push my sentence out of its context. The evolution in general sense never stops. What you call as nuts is not my idea at all but it is your distortion.

[Isimsiz Biri]

I hear all this talk about the 'word of god'

and it's always a human talking...

 

To point the moon on the sky, a finger is needed. Shame on those who think that finger is the moon.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Isimsiz Biri

[chegg]

.

Edited March 14, 2015 by chegg