Lao Tzu and the "belly"

[Marblehead]

Go there then

because enough folks suggest living in their head rather than feasting and enjoying life where they can.

But it is their desire for such. Some people can't accept that we are just another of the millions of animal spices on the planet. We want to be more than we are. This is all head games. I filled my belly today having lunch with a friend. And we BSed while eating. Lovely time.

 

So Yeah, I could say that it is all mind games but others have said it before. Someone even wrote a song about it. But it is that individual's life and as long as they are causing no harm to others I have no right to criticize.

[Stosh]

Nicely expressed, yes that does really sound like living well.

I was just being ironic to highlight the way the phrase appears to be taken wrong, but you drew a bright picture there, which is better.

 

One small thing though, rights are also just subjective opinion, somtimes agreed upon and somtimes not. .

So no one has a right to deny you your criticisms

One just lives with the consequences of their choices.

Edited September 19, 2013 by Stosh

[Rara]

I filled my belly today having lunch with a friend. And we BSed while eating. Lovely time.

 

I guess the confusing part for me is whether we can fill our bellies 24/7.

 

To me, this sounds like when I have people over (an average, once a week) and we'll just sit down, talk, eat. have music on and just forget any worries and ramble...or "blow off some steam".

 

But that doesn't take away some filled head and empty belly situations I have in my day-to-day life

[Marblehead]

I guess the confusing part for me is whether we can fill our bellies 24/7.

I would likely say "No" were I asked such a question. There will be times when we get hungry but it's not time to eat.

 

I know what you are pointing at but I don't have a good answer. I think it is not fair to compare the Sage of 2500 years ago with the average Joe of today's world. There will be times when our belly is empty and our mind is full. So we need, IMO, on occasion, to fill our belly and empty our brain. Getting physically comfortable and releasing our mind of worries. Easy, Right? Hehehe.

[Rara]

I would likely say "No" were I asked such a question. There will be times when we get hungry but it's not time to eat.

 

I know what you are pointing at but I don't have a good answer. I think it is not fair to compare the Sage of 2500 years ago with the average Joe of today's world. There will be times when our belly is empty and our mind is full. So we need, IMO, on occasion, to fill our belly and empty our brain. Getting physically comfortable and releasing our mind of worries. Easy, Right? Hehehe.

 

Aaaaaand I'm back!

 

Yes, can't compare sage of 2500 years ago to average Joe...but what about the sage of today?

 

The more we practice, the more we understand....the closer we come to becoming a sage? (Or invert all I just said to create the same meaning haha)

 

Surely the nature of the sage is timeless...

[Marblehead]

Surely the nature of the sage is timeless...

I would accept that as a truth.

 

The Sage of today might well be living in a commune where (s)he would be able to live as Lao Tzu suggested. Simple living is still possible today just as it was, or at least could have been, 2500 years ago. There once was a time in human history when all there were was small villages and people lived in harmony, filling their belly and not worrying about the people down the way that they had heard about.

 

I think that there are far too many people on the planet today for that type of living to become very popular because of the requirement for such a community.

 

But even in our technological world the Sage can still do their things. I mean, owning a cell phone does not make one not a Sage.

[Rara]

There once was a time in human history when all there were was small villages and people lived in harmony, filling their belly and not worrying about the people down the way that they had heard about.

 

An African friend of mine tells me that there are still places over there that live this way. No currency, just a mutual exchange system that keeps people together as a community.

 

That being said, I wouldn't say that's anything to be desired. We can still have our own equivalent. I may work for "the man", but however I go about it, I encourage a sense of community both in a professional setting, and when back home. We can do what we can in our given birthplaces and still achieve the same harmony as those living in what is perceived to us as harmonious small villages

 

But even in our technological world the Sage can still do their things. I mean, owning a cell phone does not make one not a Sage.

 

Somebody on the forum referred to themselves as a "suburban monk" ... I forget who it was. But they meant the same thing.

 

Yes, we happen to be alive in the technology era. A privilege to some, and some people would probably be quite strict about not using much technology and abandoning it to go and live a life closer to nature.

 

But why? It's amazing that we can all gather here like the philosophers of 2500 years ago, who would have to all be local to each other due to lack of choice! For me, the Tao in 2013 is like this - there is a computer in front of me, and us as people communicate through it. And phones. So accept and do!

 

PS I love your signature. So flexible and honest, is the best way of putting it.

[Marblehead]

An African friend of mine tells me that there are still places over there that live this way. No currency, just a mutual exchange system that keeps people together as a community.

Yes. And in South America as well. And I am sure there are others.

 

 

That being said, I wouldn't say that's anything to be desired. We can still have our own equivalent. I may work for "the man", but however I go about it, I encourage a sense of community both in a professional setting, and when back home. We can do what we can in our given birthplaces and still achieve the same harmony as those living in what is perceived to us as harmonious small villages

Exactly. We don't need to go to extremes. Just find ways to live in harmony with our environment and the people we encounter.

[ldso]

Great conversation everyone! I am enjoying reading it while waiTing for lunch.

 

Its funny that I was just thinking about lower mind vs higher mind. One thing that has been helpful for me lately is being mindful of balancing between the two as I work at my desk or walk around.

 

In tai chi my instructor would constantly remind me to relax my upper self and try to move my tension or focus to my hips and thighs. Practicing awareness of that seems to help me feel less anxious, and also I seem to have more energy for home life in the evening.

 

Thanks for a great discussion!

[ion]

Quote

Therefore the sage, in the exercise of his government, empties their minds, fills their bellies, weakens their wills, and strengthens their bones. He constantly (tries to) keep them without knowledge and without desire, and where there are those who have knowledge, to keep them from presuming to act (on it). When there is this abstinence from action, good order is universal.

 

Sounds EXACTLY like good instructions for meditation.

 

"Empty the mind" Engage the minds attention through the senses outside the body.

 

"Fill the belly" deep, full breathing through the diaphragm. 

 

"Weakens their wills" put aside any ambitions or pursuits.

 

"Streagthens their bones" keep the spine straight.:

 

"He constantly tries to keep them without knowledge & without desire" Don't get caught up in thoughts and thinking, or give into craving.

 

"And where there are those who have knowledge, to keep them from presuming to act on it." Do not respond physically to thoughts thinking or craving if you have given into them, but instead...

 

"When there is this abstinence from action, good order is universal." Relax the mind and the body, and restore order by returning to stillness.

[Marblehead]

6 hours ago, ion said:

 

Sounds EXACTLY like good instructions for meditation.

 

"Empty the mind" Engage the minds attention through the senses outside the body.

 

"Fill the belly" deep, full breathing through the diaphragm. 

 

"Weakens their wills" put aside any ambitions or pursuits.

 

"Streagthens their bones" keep the spine straight.:

 

"He constantly tries to keep them without knowledge & without desire" Don't get caught up in thoughts and thinking, or give into craving.

 

"And where there are those who have knowledge, to keep them from presuming to act on it." Do not respond physically to thoughts thinking or craving if you have given into them, but instead...

 

"When there is this abstinence from action, good order is universal." Relax the mind and the body, and restore order by returning to stillness.

Very well done!!!

 

I feel good repeating it!

 

[flowing hands]

I think this all refers to 'fill the belly and weaken the ambition'. A guidance on how to view life. Eat well, not too much and too little, let not the mind crave for more than a simple way of life. A more complicated life leads to stress, leads to the world going out of balance and the way is lost and can't be remembered.

[Rara]

Cool to see this pop up again...I was just looking for something else. What a nice surprise!

 

Looking back 5 years, it's crazy to see how I used to write. Anyway, applications of the above post have certainly helped me through. Those "symptoms" I had still remain, but I'm thoroughly aware of them now and know when enough is enough, so to speak.

[Limahong]

On 9/6/2013 at 3:23 AM, Rara said:

I don't usually read interpretations for TTC because I like to figure things out for myself. Now I've done enough thinking, I say I'm ready to ask for some interpretations.

 

Hi Rara,

 

You asked:

(a) Lao Tzu talks a lot about the filling of bellies. What does he/do you think he means?

(b) What are your thoughts?

 

I too have not read the TTC yet and my thoughts are quite mundane (excuse me):

 

Belly Talk

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When the stomach is full, the head is empty.

 

Bon Appetit.

Edited July 29, 2018 by Limahong
Enhance ...

[Marblehead]

When the stomach is full, stop eating.  Go for a walk and just enjoy the wonder of nature.  If you have no problems don't be creating any so you can worry about them.  If you have problems, resolve them and allow you mind to be empty.

 

 

[Limahong]

21 hours ago, Marblehead said:

When the stomach is full, stop eating.  Go for a walk and just enjoy the wonder of nature.  If you have no problems don't be creating any so you can worry about them.  If you have problems, resolve them and allow you mind to be empty.

 

Hi Dada-da,

 

When the stomach is full, stop eating.... and allow you mind to be empty.

 

- LimA

[Rara]

On 29/07/2018 at 11:12 AM, Limahong said:

 

Hi Rara,

 

You asked:

(a) Lao Tzu talks a lot about the filling of bellies. What does he/do you think he means?

(b) What are your thoughts?

 

I too have not read the TTC yet and my thoughts are quite mundane (excuse me):

 

Belly Talk

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When the stomach is full, the head is empty.

 

Bon Appetit.

 

I laugh but that's only because it's true.