Back to Basics (I mean REALLY basic)

[roger]

Let's get BASIC. God knows I need it!

 

 

 

1. It is in MY best interests for ME to be kind to OTHERS.

 

 

 

2. It is bad for ME for ME to mistreat OTHERS.

 

 

 

How simple is the obvious!

[三江源]

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Edited July 25, 2014 by cat

[Flolfolil]

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Edited September 6, 2013 by Flolfolil

[Marblehead]

Okay Roger, fill the belly and empty the mind. How basic is that?

[3bob]

"...What another has taught let me repeat:

"A man (or woman) of violence will come to a violent end"

Whoever said this can be my teacher and my father."

 

From TTC 42

(with the or woman part added by me)

 

 

Edited September 6, 2013 by 3bob

[Flolfolil]

fill the belly

with bloodflow? with "energy"?

 

or just with food?

 

edit: food for thought!!

Edited September 6, 2013 by Flolfolil

[Marblehead]

"...What another has taught let me repeat:

"A man (or woman) of violence will come to a violent end"

Whoever said this can be my teacher and my father."

 

From TTC 42

(with the or woman part added by me)

 

I think you have already absorbed many of the teachings of your teacher and father.

 

with bloodflow? with "energy"?

 

or just with food?

 

edit: food for thought!!

Hehehe. All will be done equally when the belly is full and the mind is empty. I think this would be a great condition for attaining the state of wu wei.

[Brian]

Be a good & moral person, stay calm, and practice your qigong.

 

[三江源]

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Edited July 15, 2014 by cat

[xor]

basic is not always easy...

[3bob]

Seems like cats are almost always in wu wei, if not overly domesticated.

[Chang]

"Grant yourself a moment of peace and you will understand how foolishly you have scurried about.
Learn to be silent and you will notice that you have talked much too much.
Be kind and you will realize that your judjement of others was too severe."

[Marblehead]

Seems like cats are almost always in wu wei, if not overly domesticated.

Peoples can be that way too! (if not overly domesticated.)

[Brian]

what is good, what is moral, should one stay calm at all times, is qigong enough?

 

Fortunately, this isn't a sophomore philosophy class.

 

Enough for what?

 

Yes, at all times (unless you can point out for me a time when it isn't appropriate?)

 

"Good" and "moral" are, or become, largely self-evident except to people who simply want to debate/argue (see the first sentence, above). Remaining calm and practicing your qigong can help with this...

 

Edited September 6, 2013 by A Seeker

[三江源]

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Edited July 15, 2014 by cat

[Brian]

Wow.

 

Perhaps you thought my "practicing your qigong can help" statement was directed at you, personally? That wasn't my meaning.

 

It has been my experience/observation that people generally know right from wrong and merely pretend not to when that knowledge is counter to their own self-centered interests.

 

I didn't dream up those three simple guidelines, you know. Your taking exception to them is curious...

 

In any case, I am reminded today of why I generally don't participate in TTB discussions anymore. I am reminded of this, actually:

 

Edited September 6, 2013 by A Seeker

[KenBrace]

what is good, what is moral, should one stay calm at all times

In my experience when morality, anger judgment, etc. is left up to men, who are far from perfect, problems can emerge. Since God is perfect the best way to solve this problem is to get closer to him. If you aren't sure about what you should do, pray about it. Not sure everyone will agree with me or not but I've found that if you don't rely on God to help you with morality, it can tend to get really messed up.

 

is qigong enough?

Well, that depends on your goals. Edited September 6, 2013 by KenBrace

[三江源]

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Edited July 15, 2014 by cat

[NotVoid]

"Good" and "moral" are, or become, largely self-evident except to people who simply want to debate/argue (see the first sentence, above).

 

I think there is a very simple way to determine what is good and what is ethical and what is virtuous. If we treat other people exactly in the way that we would like to be treated ourself by others, then we are probably on the right track. We can only do this if we become less selfious, and put more effort into becoming more understanding and more caring. This goes hand in hand with reducing the control and influence of the ego. This approach can be viewed as 'opening the heart'. In my opinion this is at the 'heart' of all true self cultivation approaches, and without this we can't ever even open the door, let alone enter.

[KenBrace]

I think there is a very simple way to determine what is good and what is ethical and what is virtuous. If we treat other people exactly in the way that we would like to be treated ourself by others, then we are probably on the right track. We can only do this if we become less selfious, and put more effort into becoming more understanding and more caring. This goes hand in hand with reducing the control and influence of the ego. This approach can be viewed as 'opening the heart'. In my opinion this is at the 'heart' of all true self cultivation approaches, and without this we can't ever even open the door, let alone enter.

 

The golden rule is very important but you cannot completely rely on it to guide your morals. Stealing from the rich and giving to the poor is an example of this. You could say that if the rich are being greedy then it's only moral for you to steal from them and give it to the poor. On the other hand the rich might deserve their worked-for wealth and the poor deserve to be poor since they didn't have the ambition to work hard. What about when it seems a bit in between these two situations? It is then left up to your own imperfect human judgement to decide what to do. In these situations we have to rely on God to guide us on the right decision. There are many examples like this but I hoped you grasped my point.

[Flolfolil]

the poor deserve to be poor since they didn't have the ambition to work hard.

Lots of poor people work extremely hard at TWO JOBS and still can't afford suitable living arrangements while rich people that do nothing but sit on their ass all day reap all the benefit.

 

sigh......

[NotVoid]

The golden rule is very important but you cannot completely rely on it to guide your morals. Stealing from the rich and giving to the poor is an example of this. You could say that if the rich are being greedy then it's only moral for you to steal from them and give it to the poor. On the other hand the rich might deserve their worked-for wealth and the poor deserve to be poor since they didn't have the ambition to work hard. What about when it seems a bit in between these two situations? It is then left up to your own imperfect human judgement to decide what to do. In these situations we have to rely on God to guide us on the right decision. There are many examples like this but I hoped you grasped my point.

 

I still say it is not complicated. You wouldn't want people to steal from you, so you shouldn't steal from others. There are other ways to help the poor rather than stealing. Sure we can still encounter moral dilemmas in life, but if we follow the guideline of treating others as we would want others to treat us, it is pretty likely in my opinion that you are on the path to opening your heart and lessening the control of the ego. The ego is a jealous ruler however and will try to present all sorts of rationalizations and arguments of why this approach is flawed and won't work, and why it is all pointless and that sort of thing, but once a person starts to open their heart more it becomes easier to see through this sort of clutter. Complicated relates to the ego and its modes of perception and processing, and simple relates to the heart.

[KenBrace]

Lots of poor people work extremely hard at TWO JOBS and still can't afford suitable living arrangements while rich people that do nothing but sit on their ass all day reap all the benefit. sigh......

Yeah but this isn't always the case. It goes both ways. There are lazy homeless bums that need to get a life but are to lazy to get out of their boxes and work. On the other hand, like you said, there are rich people (sitting on their butts all day) that live off an inheritance, while there are poor people doing their best to scratch out a living and can hardly afford food. My point was that sometimes it can be hard to tell in a certain case which is which. Other cases are obvious.

 

I still say it is not complicated. You wouldn't want people to steal from you, so you shouldn't steal from others. There are other ways to help the poor rather than stealing. Sure we can still encounter moral dilemmas in life, but if we follow the guideline of treating others as we would want others to treat us, it is pretty likely in my opinion that you are on the path to opening your heart and lessening the control of the ego. The ego is a jealous ruler however and will try to present all sorts of rationalizations and arguments of why this approach is flawed and won't work, and why it is all pointless and that sort of thing, but once a person starts to open their heart more it becomes easier to see through this sort of clutter. Complicated relates to the ego and its modes of perception and processing, and simple relates to the heart.

Lol I agree with most of what you're saying but there are still situations that you can't rely on men's judgement. You can't always treat others how you want to be treated because not everyone acts like you. If someone is robbing a store, then it's only right to stop them if it's within your power. If you were robbing a store you wouldn't want anyone stopping you, but then again you would rob a store. The golden rule can only be applied to people who also apply it. If someone is doing something against the golden rule, you can no longer use it yourself to solve the situation.

[NotVoid]

Lol I agree with most of what you're saying but there are still situations that you can't rely on men's judgement. You can't always treat others how you want to be treated because not everyone acts like you. If someone is robbing a store, then it's only right to stop them if it's within your power. If you were robbing a store you wouldn't want anyone stopping you, but then again you would rob a store. The golden rule can only be applied to people who also apply it. If someone is doing something against the golden rule, you can no longer use it yourself to solve the situation.

 

No, I think you can still always follow the same general approach. If I were attacking and robbing someone I would think it reasonable that they would try to protect themself if they were at risk of immediate harm, and also try to stop me from robbing them if possible. I would think it would be reasonable for me to do the same as well if I were being robbed or attacked, but I personally still wouldn't want to use more force than necessary to protect myself, and I might rather prefer to let the robber take my money rather than force a physical confrontation if I wasn't in immediate danger. It would depend on the exact circumstances. Nothing in this world is perfect and sometimes we make mistakes, but I do think that if you follow some simple guidelines the potential is at least there to keep moving forward in a positive direction. Also, I don't think we are saying anything so different at the core of it. There is an expression that goes, 'the spirit resides in the heart and is expressed through the eyes'. I do really think we just have to take some very simple steps to start to quiet down the clutter to start to see things more simply and clearly. Just my opinion.

Edited September 6, 2013 by NotVoid

[三江源]

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Edited July 15, 2014 by cat