Xiao Yao Pai

[flowing hands]

I have made my opinions and miss-givings about this system openly and frankly on this board about the way that people off the street can walk in and the Taoist master make them a 'student' and so called connected to Immortals.

 

My last posts on this subject were met with insults and derision from various XYP members, even insulting my Divine master.

 

I decided that enough was enough and I'd given enough of my time on this board, so I haven't come on again and do not intend to post on here again after this.

 

But I wanted to further elucidate some experiences I have had that concern this cult. It is a cult for no Taoist master would teach, whether they were mortal or Immortal someone who was not ready to be taught, who had not been properly tested or considered, both physically, mentally and morally. But the XYP do, the numbers of people are more important than anything else it would seem.

 

My experience was this:

 

I was about to go to sleep when a communication was sent to me, it came in words and vision. It was feathery and a tunnel and the voice said to me, 'do not interfere with us Flowing Hands'. (I had previously expressed my concerns on this board about XYP) I replied; 'I am within my rights to say what is right.' The voice repeated its statement and added a threat.

 

The master who had established this communication began to withdraw at that instance when the threat was made. I sent my weapon down his pathway to Indonesia and stabbed him in the head, just to let him know I wasn't to be threatened or silenced. It was only a tap so I did not harm him.

 

Some weeks later Lei Gong the black faced thunder deity comes to my door. He is very sheepish and eventually says that he has been commanded to do me harm. (Thunder magic) I say to him 'well you better get on with it'. I drew my weapon there upon he vanished saying 'I mean you no harm.'

 

The first and the second incidences may not be linked, but it is highly probable. A member on this board when I was trying to give my point of view and to express my miss-givings, wrote that I should be completely ignored. A system including the master should be open to criticism without threat or insults......this is one aspect that concerns me. The mind/brain is our most powerful organ in our body, it is little used to anywhere near its capacity. It is very easy for us to be duped into thinking lots of things. Our minds can make us feel and do things that we think are impossible, it can very easily lead us astray. The Immortals do not teach mortals very easily, nor do they interfere with the world. To get them to teach one must prove oneself worthy of their time.

 

With respect,

 

Wu Shi Flowing Hands

 

Student of Hua Tuo Xian Shi, Li Erh Xian Shi, Chi Tien Da Shen

Edited September 7, 2013 by flowing hands

[Dagon]

Hi Flowinghands,

 

I have a couple of questions if you don't mind.

 

What is XYP?

 

 

The mind/brain is our most powerful organ in our body, it is little used to anywhere near its capacity. It is very easy for us to be duped into thinking lots of things. Our minds can make us feel and do things that we think are impossible, it can very easily lead us astray

 

 

So how did you become immune to delusion?

 

And how can you be certain that you have when you have?

Edited September 7, 2013 by Dagon

[zerostao]

" But the XYP do, the numbers of people are more important than anything else it would seem."

XYP is expanding in the west. a dozen or 2 dozen new Tao Yu is all. these numbers of 2 dozen or 3 dozen

are alarming to you FH ?

 

so I haven't come on again and do not intend to post on here again after this.

??

 

Some weeks later Lei Gong the black faced thunder deity comes to my door. He is very sheepish and eventually says that he has been commanded to do me harm. (Thunder magic) I say to him 'well you better get on with it'. I drew my weapon there upon he vanished saying 'I mean you no harm.'

FH, i am astonished here -- 2 different astonishments actually, astonishment #1, that Lei Gong(the black faced thunder deity) would arrive at your door on the behalf and to defend XYP

astonishment #2, that you were able to fend off Lei Gong

i wonder if that was the same day i was hanging out with Yun Tong ?! anyways, anyways

Lei Gong takes commands only from Heaven, so that may be something to consider, ponder, and wonder upon,,

otherwise it is good to see you back around flowing hands

[zerostao]

Astonished are you, zst?

constantly

[flowing hands]

" But the XYP do, the numbers of people are more important than anything else it would seem."

XYP is expanding in the west. a dozen or 2 dozen new Tao Yu is all. these numbers of 2 dozen or 3 dozen

are alarming to you FH ?

 

so I haven't come on again and do not intend to post on here again after this.

??

 

Some weeks later Lei Gong the black faced thunder deity comes to my door. He is very sheepish and eventually says that he has been commanded to do me harm. (Thunder magic) I say to him 'well you better get on with it'. I drew my weapon there upon he vanished saying 'I mean you no harm.'

FH, i am astonished here -- 2 different astonishments actually, astonishment #1, that Lei Gong(the black faced thunder deity) would arrive at your door on the behalf and to defend XYP

astonishment #2, that you were able to fend off Lei Gong

i wonder if that was the same day i was hanging out with Yun Tong ?! anyways, anyways

Lei Gong takes commands only from Heaven, so that may be something to consider, ponder, and wonder upon,,

otherwise it is good to see you back around flowing hands

 

If you knew about how different Taoist masters use thunder magic to do harm to even an enemies armies, let alone an individual, then you would understand. Most Mao Shun sects have a thunder talisman that is carved out of wood, stone or something else. The ritual is known to high Taoist masters and then can be used to command the thunder deity/s to do their bidding. Deities can be commanded to do the bidding of humans, unlike Immortals. Deities are not Immortals and are lower level spiritual beings. Thunder magic is usually used by high Taoist when they wish to kill or harm. There are many cases where Taoist have died as a result of thunder magic. For reference read Michael Saso's book on Taoist master Chuang for some insight.

 

I have not bothered to find out whether Lei Gong was sent by XYP master or an associated master, but he was commanded to do this job by a Taoist Master in Indonesia. I have no enemies, non that I know of!!!

Lei gong did not fear me, he feared my weapon. My weapon was given to me by an Immortal and is a very rare thing if not unique in the Heavens, before it was given to my temporary care.

[Friend]

Deities can be commanded to do the bidding of humans, unlike Immortals. Deities are not Immortals and are lower level spiritual beings.

Very good reminder.

[zerostao]

"What is XYP?"

dagon,

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/24476-xiao-yao-pai/

 

flowing hands,

your experience sounds remarkable. you will recall that yourself and myself had an exchange of ideas on the thread i have linked. you will remember, that i never insulted you and i never asked you to leave or for anyone to ignore you.

"this is one aspect that concerns me" i have only said that anyone should investigate and test and question and then decide if this is the school for them or not.

[h.uriahr]

Call me crazy here but maybe those who are initiated into questionable lineages should try to practice with or speak with or whatever it is they do , with the "thing" while their dog or cat is near?

 

Animals are very much able to sense and or see the unseen. How they respond will dictate how friendly or unfriendly the "thing" is.

 

[zerostao]

Call me crazy here but maybe those who are initiated into questionable lineages should try to practice with or speak with or whatever it is they do , with the "thing" while their dog or cat is near? Animals are very much able to sense and or see the unseen. How they respond will dictate how friendly or unfriendly the "thing" is.

that one night in 2009 when representatives of the ghost dance showed up unexpectedly to visit with me. one cat ran and hid in the closet while the other cat came and sat beside me on the bed and exchanged looks with each of the visitors. it was over 4 years later when it was revealed to me who exactly they were. and even if they appeared to me the happiest friendliest "things" i have ever met, one cat still sought cover in a closet, but it did come in the room they were in and not some closet in some other room at the other end of the house haha

i am very comfortable with every XYP member i have met also, my life is noticably improved in a short time.

[effilang]

The title you used for this thread speaks much about you, FH.

 

Don't be so sour and learn to appreciate the happiness of others.

 

Your pride spills out of your every oriface.

[Friend]

The title you used for this thread speaks much about you, FH. Don't be so sour and learn to appreciate the happiness of others. Your pride spills out of your every oriface.

Effi, Flowinghands words are coming to the right time.

It was important that he mentioned the difference between

an immortal and deity and having also an additional

very difficult way to get teached by an immortal.

(One look at facts and see its usefulness,

a scolding is not neccessary wrong when

the intent is right, so I understood Liao Fan)

 

Until this happens which I doubt to be if I understand

Wu Shi Flowinghands words. The Xiao Yao Pai

having "The low high level spirit" is a good choice to take

the gamble.

 

The Warning from Wu Shi Flowinghands are considered

and acknowledge when pursueing the way of Xiao Yao Pai

as when reading the four lesson of Liao Fan fate is set

only remarkable goodness or badness alter it....or magic.

 

Days before on Friday an old coworker comes and

he told me "When the halo is established, the

teacher will come and seek you. He want to teach

but he will choose only from the best(reached halo)"

 

Which makes me think I heard it somewhere and

making the way to be chosen by an immortal path

is difficult.

[flowing hands]

"What is XYP?"

dagon,

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/24476-xiao-yao-pai/

 

flowing hands,

your experience sounds remarkable. you will recall that yourself and myself had an exchange of ideas on the thread i have linked. you will remember, that i never insulted you and i never asked you to leave or for anyone to ignore you.

"this is one aspect that concerns me" i have only said that anyone should investigate and test and question and then decide if this is the school for them or not.

 

This is right, as I said at the time, you of all the xyp people conducted yourself like a Taoist should, that is to be proud of. I am more than happy for anyone who has found happiness in whatever they feel is right for them; don't misunderstand my intentions. I am not saying that my way is the only way, I am questioning the validity of what is being told to xyp people and how they are being taught and where this is coming from. There are many other sects that believe in different Immortals who have different ways of doing things; its just the different ways of the original master. Some sects draw five amulets some like mine only two.

But the established way of teaching and access out of all those sects is the same. The Immortal chooses you after a period of testing. Some go to the temple and can never receive teaching some can, this has always been the way. An Immortal is a realized mortal, who has gained Immortality through hard work and self realization. They are not simply going to give it away and teach you because you turn up to a hall. Don't kid yourself. Its like a bunch of people turn up at a hall and say 'hey you can become the student of Flowing Hands, learn lots of magic, martial arts of the Gods and all manner of special things' and some guy asks where is Flowing Hands?, has he even been asked whether he wants to do this? To which the organizers have to say no.

So Immortals like Tai Sung Lao Gin, who are top Immortals all of a sudden have new students he never asked for or even knows who they are. Do you think he cares? Do you think he will turn up? Short answer definitely not.

 

There is the very large hole in what you are doing, as I have expressed many times.

 

Don't get me wrong again, I wish the best for all people and all things that live, for here lies a path to value life and each other and the end of war and destruction. My intentions are honorable.

[BaguaKicksAss]

OK I'm curious now, are you guys saying that immortals are more powerful than say Ganesh? (just picked a random Deity) How about some of the newer immortals?

[zerostao]

from the XYP perspective,

we use Shen Xian rather than Immortal, Dieties, or a God.

every school has different system, and XYP system is unique.

all who were Tao Yin / initiated means that they have FFS. FFS is Taoist Shen Xian.

Tao Yin is a disciple acceptance ritual. XYP master chooses the disciple and FFS decides how to educate the disciple.

FFS is still able to choose by giving some test and evaluation to all disciple before teaching them.

why it is so easy to have FFS in XYP? actually not that easy, because many candidates fail to come.

It is heaven affinity. And those who come still have been tested by FFS.

why XYP spread openly? It is because XYP teaches and values goodness.

the goal is to lead people to become true human, we teach wisdom.

those who want to learn Taoism usually have good intent and most of them want to become a better person.

so FFS is willing to accept it.

maybe there are also people who just want to steal the system or the power ?, FFS will know and it does not work.

Tao Yin Shu is divine art. the key to success in depend on our sense of Spiritual.

and sense of Spiritual depends on our connection with FFS and divine realm.

And this connection quality depends on three aspects, these are:

1. Mind Clarity 2. Sincerity and Honesty 3. Behavior / Merit.

 

 

and regarding Thunder deities. i have asked my XYP friend from Indonesia. he said that XYP Taoist learn how to become wise human and not learn how to harm others. of course when our level increases, our energy and power also increase but our focus is using this power for cultivation and to help others who are in need.

and

that it is better to use Shen Xian than immortal, deities or god. it is to avoid miss perception. TYS guide with high level Shen Xian. only high level Shen Xian has an ability to connect to human in fully aware condition.

[Apech]

I tried to follow this thread cos it looked kind of interesting ... but I don't know what XYP or FFS (ffs!) are ... so whatever you guys are doing ... stay safe

[zerostao]

XYP is the clan name Xiao Yao Pai

FFS is Fu Fak Shen which is a spirit guide and Shen Xian

[Apech]

XYP is the clan name Xiao Yao Pai

FFS is Fu Fak Shen which is a spirit guide and Shen Xian

 

 

That's what I like about TBs I learn something new every day ... thank you.

[zerostao]

you are welcome apech.

chi dragon had given a precise chinese translation for XYP.

i consider it to mean carefree and natural.

XYP is one of the clans for the Tai Shang Men

[flowing hands]

There are many branches of Daoism and differing teachings. These have been added to by one master to another along the generations.

 

Many sects, notably ones that have their lineage form monastic mountain temples pass on their teachings by 'initiation'. Some are given talismans, some are hit and some are given the 'power' by hand on parts of the body. Most of these sects are involved in ritual and rites as well as martial arts, nei gong/ qi gong etc. The masters of these various sects all have received the Thunder magic training pertaining to their sect. It is primarily used for healing and exorcism but is often used to do harm.

 

I do not do thunder magic, although I know how to do it. I come from a completely different way of doing things.

 

When you are 'initiated' into XYP, I assume that the master is giving you his 'fa' and this 'fa' has been passed down through time from one master to another, even though a new sect may have been established, the 'fa' remains.

 

This extra power (fa) that is put into the your body may have all sorts of historical 'commands'. Some of these commands may date back hundreds if not thousands of years to the ancient wu.

 

Now I assume that you are taught to meditate and to do certain exercises, yes?

These exercises are taught to you to help you have control over this new power that has mixed in with your own.

This power has the ability to make you see and feel all sorts of strange and wonderful things that you never experienced before, when you concentrate. It has mixed with your own being. It can make you hear voices, make you feel wonderful, make strange feelings and sensations in your body, many different experiences. But that is what it is and nothing else. As you are taught more and gain more control over your senses and this power can be added to, it again can be enhanced by more spiritual practices that ignite your very essence.

So some sects believe that the celestial beings inhabit our organs and so they can be summoned and they can guide us.

The ways of summoning these celestial beings and tapping into their knowledge, some sects believe that it is through rites and rituals that they will achieve this.

 

Now I will tell you my experience, which is different but has some similarities.

 

When I was successful and the Immortal master came to me and drew the fa fu and fa shui, I was told that I must beg for this twice a month. The Immortal master was giving me his 'fa' (power). Now as an apprentice shaman, I really didn't know much or have much experience only a faith. The 'fa' that the Immortal master had given me has a command in it. The power mixes with my being and I become aware of the power inside of me. Because the power that we are given is so powerful it can so easily fool oneself into believing that lots of different things are happening. For the first year of my apprenticeship I could not mentally communicate with the Immortal master, only physically. So I felt somewhat at a loss as to what was happening to me sometimes. Another shaman I met said to me when I described what was happening, "your fa can fool you very easily when you are inexperienced, you will get to know when it is the Immortal master teaching you and when it is not as you mature and become experienced.

 

Because the Immortal masters fa is so powerful, once inside ones body it can make your body move, experience and do all sorts of things when one recites the Immortal masters name to come, or concentrate and let it go. It is his/her fa so it will react after all to its owners name.

 

If you look at the video of me begging the Immortal master to draw the talisman, you will see my muscles twitching with the fa that is inside of my body. I can draw the amulet myself without the Immortal moving my arm but I don't, I wait for the Immortal to come. The fa inside of me is the Immortals, so when I beg him to come and concentrate on his fa that is inside of me, it reacts very physically and wants to take over my arm and draw the amulet and apply the power, which I have done many times if needed. The Immortal master gives the fa to his students, so that they can draw a healing amulet in an emergency, without waiting for the Immortal master to come to do it. In some sects the Immortal does not give his/her fa and the wu has to wait for the Immortal master to come to draw the amulet.

 

Now I guess that this is what is happening to all of you. The power that has been given to you is making all sorts of mind and body tricks that really are only manifestations of your own deep subconscious minds. Remember how powerful people like Mckenna are at using peoples own minds to do things.

 

When I first read on ttb's that you were initiated into being a student of Tai Sung Lao Gin (Li Erh Xian Shi) one of my masters, I begged him of the truth of this. He laughed and said what do you think after all of your 30 years of our teaching? I replied they are just fooling themselves? 'Exactly' he replied and gave the reason as in my last post, as to how difficult it is to be taught by an Immortal.

 

So it is up to you what you believe and what you feel is happening to you, but I have your best interests at heart. I have a wealth of experience in this field and I'm interested in you progressing in a real way and not being fooled by the fa of a Taoist master, who may be under the wrong impression himself? Or he may wish to spread his teaching in this way for reasons that are undisclosed to you. Remember some of the most terrible sects of fringe religions say they have good intentions. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that the XYP are evil, but one must understand why and question.

Edited September 9, 2013 by flowing hands

[Friend]

So if one has the Fa, how can one utilize it Wu Shi Flowing Hands and how to neutralize evil influence if there is any.

[BaguaKicksAss]

.

Edited January 12, 2014 by BaguaKicksAss

[zerkaloipustota]

I was about to go to sleep when a communication was sent to me, it came in words and vision.

...

 

Some weeks later Lei Gong the black faced thunder deity comes to my door.

 

Did he knock?

[flowing hands]

So if one has the Fa, how can one utilize it Wu Shi Flowing Hands and how to neutralize evil influence if there is any.

 

 

It can be used to do many things, it needs a command to tell it what you want it to do; therefore this is why a talisman is used either physically written, or it can be carved and then used as part of a ritual, or it can be drawn in the air or on the floor. In the air one must posses the fa to do this.

 

I am presuming that you are referring to initiation from one human to another. An Immortal can see what the fa contains and any bad influences can be neutralized.

[hydrogen]

Now I assume that you are taught to meditate and to do certain exercises, yes?

These exercises are taught to you to help you have control over this new power that has mixed in with your own.

This power has the ability to make you see and feel all sorts of strange and wonderful things that you never experienced before, when you concentrate. It has mixed with your own being. It can make you hear voices, make you feel wonderful, make strange feelings and sensations in your body, many different experiences. But that is what it is and nothing else. As you are taught more and gain more control over your senses and this power can be added to, it again can be enhanced by more spiritual practices that ignite your very essence.

So some sects believe that the celestial beings inhabit our organs and so they can be summoned and they can guide us.

The ways of summoning these celestial beings and tapping into their knowledge, some sects believe that it is through rites and rituals that they will achieve this.

 

Sounds like premature kundalini activites.

 

It seems that some Taoist sect know how to force activate K.

[zerostao]

i do appreciate you looking out for me/us/XYP. it is a system to always test.

i still wonder if you are basing your judgement on shamanism? that seemed to be the crux of our previous discussions.

 

"When you are 'initiated' into XYP, I assume that the master is giving you his 'fa' and this 'fa' has been passed down through time from one master to another, even though a new sect may have been established, the 'fa' remains.

 

This extra power (fa) that is put into the your body may have all sorts of historical 'commands'. Some of these commands may date back hundreds if not thousands of years to the ancient wu."

 

this doesnt fit with XYP system. Tao Yin is disciple acceptance only. we are accepted as a disciple by the XYP master and due to his Spiritual level we will be given FFS who is on duty in the name of TSLJ. FFS is Taoist Shen Xian. FFS teaches us about energy but also about wisdom and even sometimes instructs us in the very simple mundane things such as sleep,doing chores, work, school, etc. this isnt possible in the method that uses Fa as you mentioned, is it?

even in using divine power, our system does not use a "pass down Fa" but each and every disciple develops their own power of Fa Shu.

my XYP friend said that the system you mention is the most common Fa in the magic world. the Fa pass down directly and the disciple must control and master it. but TYS emphasis is on wisdom and not magic, so, we dont use that system.

so you are comparing a system that we dont use. you are basing on shamanism and pass down power and we dont use that.

 

one thing about your statement, that learning from an immortal is very difficult because people cannot find the way--but, if you do meet with a height level Spiritual master, it could become easier, becoz the model is based simply on honesty and sincerity. i do not mean to doubt your conversation with your immortal teacher but it is better for me to avoid any personal analysis of that.