Natural Law and Self-Preservation

[Esteam'd Punk]

(>‿◠)✌

[xor]

Just today I saw a hooded crow, a pigeon and a bunch of european magpies playing (not fighting) ... so I guess it's not that black&white.

[Apech]

I thought about how it ain't easy in today's world being a Neanderthal

 

[Marblehead]

This thread..... made it to page 2!?

Hehehe. And I will continue side-tracking it if anyone says anything closely related to the thread title. Might end up with 20 pages. Who knows?

 

Just today I saw a hooded crow, a pigeon and a bunch of european magpies playing (not fighting) ... so I guess it's not that black&white.

Well, it would have been if there were only the crow and the pigeon was a snow white dove.

[Apech]

Hehehe. And I will continue side-tracking it if anyone says anything closely related to the thread title. Might end up with 20 pages. Who knows?

 

Well, it would have been if there were only the crow and the pigeon was a snow white dove.

 

Are you calling Freedom Fries by the name of French Fries again in the USA?

[Marblehead]

I thought about how it ain't easy in today's world being a Neanderthal

Life was always hard for the Neanderthal. They are still around though. You can see them here and there now and again if you look once in a while.

 

Are you calling Freedom Fries by the name of French Fries again in the USA?

That was so sad, you know? Just because they said that it would be a bad idea for the US to go into Iraq and Afghanistan. I guess they were pretty much on the money.

[Apech]

Life was always hard for the Neanderthal. They are still around though. You can see them here and there now and again if you look once in a while.

 

That was so sad, you know? Just because they said that it would be a bad idea for the US to go into Iraq and Afghanistan. I guess they were pretty much on the money.

 

 

We call them chips and here in Portugal batatas fritas ... which can be confusing because they also call potato crisps batatas fritas. Inexact food nomenclature can be a dangerous thing.

[Marblehead]

We call them chips and here in Portugal batatas fritas ... which can be confusing because they also call potato crisps batatas fritas. Inexact food nomenclature can be a dangerous thing.

Yeah, over here when we ask for chips we are expecting to get potato chips, not French Fries. I remember that name "fritas". Don't recall if it was from Italy or Mexico though.

 

The Germans have two names for the potato. If you live in the north they are "no, i'm not going to look up the word" but if you live in the south it is called " I'm still not going to look it up".

 

Someone somewhere calls them Pom Frits or something like that.

 

The Irish call them their biggest mistake. (The potato.)

[Apech]

Yeah, over here when we ask for chips we are expecting to get potato chips, not French Fries. I remember that name "fritas". Don't recall if it was from Italy or Mexico though.

 

The Germans have two names for the potato. If you live in the north they are "no, i'm not going to look up the word" but if you live in the south it is called " I'm still not going to look it up".

 

Someone somewhere calls them Pom Frits or something like that.

 

The Irish call them their biggest mistake. (The potato.)

 

 

Pommefrits is the french.

 

So what you call chips I call crisps! Interesting.

 

You used to get a little bag of salt with your crisps (chips) so you could sprinkle it on yourself. I'm quite partial to corn chips with a dip (say salsa for instance). Do you think they discuss these things at the G8 and G20 conferences? So they can standardise food names in the interests of international harmony and world peace. For instance what does chip mean in Syria? We are never told these things ... probably because the world press is a tool of the multinational global illuminati lizards types.

[Marblehead]

Pommefrits is the french.

 

So what you call chips I call crisps! Interesting.

 

You used to get a little bag of salt with your crisps (chips) so you could sprinkle it on yourself. I'm quite partial to corn chips with a dip (say salsa for instance). Do you think they discuss these things at the G8 and G20 conferences? So they can standardise food names in the interests of international harmony and world peace. For instance what does chip mean in Syria? We are never told these things ... probably because the world press is a tool of the multinational global illuminati lizards types.

Hehehe. You went all over my brain that time.

 

Most Americans are addicted to salt. That is why so many Americans have heart problems when they reach middle-age.

 

Saw in the news this morning: Americans are in 17th place for being the most happy people on the planet. How fuckin' sad is that?

 

It's hard telling what those politicians talk about at those meetings. I do know they haven't accomplished much yet except how to get your government more control over its people.

 

I've never been to the Middle East so I have had no reason to learn any of the words.

 

But our media does tell us that the Zimmermanns have filed for divorce and that both are accusing the other of cruelty.

 

Ralis likely knows about chips.

 

Before the frisbee was invented we used to use cow chips.

[Apech]

Hehehe. You went all over my brain that time.

 

Most Americans are addicted to salt. That is why so many Americans have heart problems when they reach middle-age.

 

Saw in the news this morning: Americans are in 17th place for being the most happy people on the planet. How fuckin' sad is that?

 

It's hard telling what those politicians talk about at those meetings. I do know they haven't accomplished much yet except how to get your government more control over its people.

 

I've never been to the Middle East so I have had no reason to learn any of the words.

 

But our media does tell us that the Zimmermanns have filed for divorce and that both are accusing the other of cruelty.

 

Ralis likely knows about chips.

 

Before the frisbee was invented we used to use cow chips.

 

Ah well we'd call them cow pats.

 

Ok so I googled the Arabic for potato crisps its رقائق البطاطس ... I think this will help us with our quest for world peace. We can now go up to a Middle east person and say 'would you like a رقائق البطاطس' ...

[Marblehead]

Ah well we'd call them cow pats.

 

Ok so I googled the Arabic for potato crisps its رقائق البطاطس ... I think this will help us with our quest for world peace. We can now go up to a Middle east person and say 'would you like a رقائق البطاطس' ...

 

I'm sure that this new knowledge is going to be indispensable at some point in my life.

 

But yes, perhaps just this little token of kindness could lead to great understanding and a desire for peace and more French Fries. But don't forget the ketchup. I think they have enough salt over there.

[Apech]

I'm sure that this new knowledge is going to be indispensable at some point in my life.

 

But yes, perhaps just this little token of kindness could lead to great understanding and a desire for peace and more French Fries. But don't forget the ketchup. I think they have enough salt over there.

 

 

Hmmm ketchup ... do they still call it Catsup as well?

[Marblehead]

Hmmm ketchup ... do they still call it Catsup as well?

Hehehe. I started to spell it that way but thought better of it. Yes, it is still catsup. But the word and both spelling have no realtion to what it really is. It's flavored tomato paste.

 

Just like the hamburger. Where's the ham?

 

Now, you can have a ham sandwich and you know what you are getting.

[Apech]

Hehehe. I started to spell it that way but thought better of it. Yes, it is still catsup. But the word and both spelling have no realtion to what it really is. It's flavored tomato paste.

 

Just like the hamburger. Where's the ham?

 

Now, you can have a ham sandwich and you know what you are getting.

 

 

You know I bet in Denmark they don't have a danish when they have a coffee. Life is full of food mysteries.

[Marblehead]

You know I bet in Denmark they don't have a danish when they have a coffee. Life is full of food mysteries.

Yeah, they probably have a British biscuit.

 

Life is full of mysteries. Food for thought.

 

Do the Danes really drink coffee? I would think that tea would be the common morning drink.

 

I have drank Korean rice wine. That is some horrible stuff!

 

It is almost supper time for me. I have no idea what I'll be eating.

 

I did make some banana ice cream earlier today and I am waiting for it to freeze up a little more before I try it.

[Apech]

Yeah, they probably have a British biscuit.

 

Life is full of mysteries. Food for thought.

 

Do the Danes really drink coffee? I would think that tea would be the common morning drink.

 

I have drank Korean rice wine. That is some horrible stuff!

 

It is almost supper time for me. I have no idea what I'll be eating.

 

I did make some banana ice cream earlier today and I am waiting for it to freeze up a little more before I try it.

 

Banana ice cream! I'm jealous now. We have lots a fresh fruit at the moment - grapes, figs, melon, water melon, plums ... all very nice ... its a good season (late summer).

 

I agree about rise wine ... a bit like drinking the water you did the dishes in.

[ralis]

Exactly when was the title of this thread allowed to be changed? I thought there was still a 30 min. edit limit. Did I miss something?

[eye_of_the_storm]

The original title was a play on how self preservation today is referred by some as "racist" ... so by that standard // anyhow

And I agree with many of you, such a statement is absurd.
...

Thomas Hobbes, for example, was also a paradigmatic natural law theorist. He held that the laws of nature are divine law (Leviathan, xv, ¶41), that all humans are bound by them (Leviathan, xv, ¶¶36), and that it is easy to know at least the basics of the natural law (Leviathan, xv, ¶35). He held that the fundamental good is self-preservation (Leviathan, xiii, ¶14), and that the laws of nature direct the way to this good (Leviathan, xiv, ¶3). He offered a catalog of laws of nature that constitute the “true moral philosophy” (Leviathan, xv, ¶40).
...

There were a number of post-Thomistic writers in the medieval and modern periods who in some way denied (2), the natural authority of the natural law, holding that while the content of the natural law is fixed either wholly or in part by human nature, its preceptive power could only come from an additional divine command: the views of John Duns Scotus, Francisco Suarez, and John Locke fit this mold. Arguably the Stoics were natural law thinkers, but they seem to deny (4), holding the right to be prior to the good (see Striker 1986). Some contemporary theological ethicists called ‘proportionalists’ (e.g. Hallett 1995) have taken up the natural law view with a consequentialist twist, denying (6). (For a discussion of the relationship between proportionalism and natural law theory see Kaczor 2002.) And while some see Aristotle as being the source of the natural law tradition, some have argued that his central appeal to the insight of the person of practical wisdom as setting the final standard for right action precludes the possibility of the sort of general rules that would (at least in a theistic context) make Aristotle's ethics a natural law position.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/natural-law-ethics/

So I guess I am a Natural Law Theorist... perhaps some similarity with Taoism.

And the other views/ denial + anti science here come from Cultural Marxism ...

 

Cultural Marxism refers to a school or offshoot of Marxism that conceives of culture as central to the legitimation of oppression, in addition to the economic factors that Karl Marx emphasized.^[1] An outgrowth of Western Marxism (especially Antonio Gramsci and the Frankfurt School) and finding popularity in the 1960s as cultural studies, Cultural Marxism argues that what appear as traditional cultural phenomena intrinsic to Western society, for instance the drive for individual acquisition associated with capitalism, nationalism, the nuclear family, gender roles, race and other forms of cultural identity;^[1] are historically recent developments that help to justify and maintain hierarchy. Cultural Marxists use Marxist methods (historical research, the identification of economic interest, the study of the mutually conditioning relations between parts of a social order) to try to understand the complexity of power in contemporary society and to make it possible to criticise what, cultural Marxists propose, appears natural but is in fact 'ideological'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism

The Marxist position works to destroy all sense of identity/ culture / uniqueness among all peoples... which is natural + evolutionary

The Natural Law Theorist would want to preserve identity/ culture / uniqueness among all peoples...

Marxism... strangely is really an offshoot of Christianity and Islamic Ideology... I'd say Judaism is more in line with Natural Law Theory?

Pope Pius IX's 1938: “One forgets today that the human race is a single, large and catholic race.”

You may notice similar slogans amongst Marxists "Liberals", "Progressives"

Islam has similar ideas also regarding conversion and destruction of culture...

Marxism, Christianity, Islam primary concern is world domination... the most effective way to achieve this is to erase what makes people unique... A perfect example is the Borg

The Borg are a collection of species that have been turned into cybernetic organisms functioning as drones of the Collective, or the hive. A pseudo-race, dwelling in the Star Trek universe, the Borg force other species into their collective and connect them to "the hive mind"; the act is called assimilation and entails violence, abductions, and injections of microscopic machines called nanoprobes. The Borg's ultimate goal is "achieving perfection".

^ Marxism ("Liberalism", "Progressives") Christianity and Islam

Seems like Christianity/Islam you could add Freemasonry too was Proto-Marxism

All Globalist / Internationalist ideologies... which are destroying people and planet

-

Edited September 11, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Aetherous]

Preserving one's culture, traditions, and wisdom is a great thing. As the OP said, it promotes cultural diversity.

Think about this: if people didn't do anything to preserve their culture, we wouldn't be able to study Taoism at all (for example)...and if people had done more of it, we would know quite a bit more about Taoism and could study actual complete traditions with ease.

I feel like it's a shame that I know so little about my Finnish and Germanic heritages, and wasn't raised with those traditions completely intact. Culture brings spice to the melting pot, and can sometimes help everyone in general (if you have medicinal knowledge for example).

Edited September 11, 2013 by turtle shell

[ralis]

The original title was a play on how self preservation today is referred by some as "racist" ... so by that standard // anyhow

 

And I agree with many of you, such a statement is absurd.

...

 

Thomas Hobbes, for example, was also a paradigmatic natural law theorist. He held that the laws of nature are divine law (Leviathan, xv, ¶41), that all humans are bound by them (Leviathan, xv, ¶¶36), and that it is easy to know at least the basics of the natural law (Leviathan, xv, ¶35). He held that the fundamental good is self-preservation (Leviathan, xiii, ¶14), and that the laws of nature direct the way to this good (Leviathan, xiv, ¶3). He offered a catalog of laws of nature that constitute the “true moral philosophy” (Leviathan, xv, ¶40).

...

 

There were a number of post-Thomistic writers in the medieval and modern periods who in some way denied (2), the natural authority of the natural law, holding that while the content of the natural law is fixed either wholly or in part by human nature, its preceptive power could only come from an additional divine command: the views of John Duns Scotus, Francisco Suarez, and John Locke fit this mold. Arguably the Stoics were natural law thinkers, but they seem to deny (4), holding the right to be prior to the good (see Striker 1986). Some contemporary theological ethicists called ‘proportionalists’ (e.g. Hallett 1995) have taken up the natural law view with a consequentialist twist, denying (6). (For a discussion of the relationship between proportionalism and natural law theory see Kaczor 2002.) And while some see Aristotle as being the source of the natural law tradition, some have argued that his central appeal to the insight of the person of practical wisdom as setting the final standard for right action precludes the possibility of the sort of general rules that would (at least in a theistic context) make Aristotle's ethics a natural law position.

 

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/natural-law-ethics/

 

So I guess I am a Natural Law Theorist... perhaps some similarity with Taoism.

 

And the other views/ denial + anti science here come from Cultural Marxism ...

 

 

 

The Marxist position works to destroy all sense of identity/ culture / uniqueness among all peoples... which is natural + evolutionary

 

The Natural Law Theorist would want to preserve identity/ culture / uniqueness among all peoples...

 

Marxism... strangely is really an offshoot of Christianity and Islamic Ideology... I'd say Judaism is more in line with Natural Law Theory?

 

Pope Pius IX's 1938: “One forgets today that the human race is a single, large and catholic race.”

 

You may notice similar slogans amongst Marxists "Liberals", "Progressives"

 

Islam has similar ideas also regarding conversion and destruction of culture...

 

Marxism, Christianity, Islam primary concern is world domination... the most effective way to achieve this is to erase what makes people unique... A perfect example is the Borg

 

The Borg are a collection of species that have been turned into cybernetic organisms functioning as drones of the Collective, or the hive. A pseudo-race, dwelling in the Star Trek universe, the Borg force other species into their collective and connect them to "the hive mind"; the act is called assimilation and entails violence, abductions, and injections of microscopic machines called nanoprobes. The Borg's ultimate goal is "achieving perfection".

 

^ Marxism ("Liberalism", "Progressives") Christianity and Islam

 

Seems like Christianity/Islam you could add Freemasonry too was Proto-Marxism

 

All Globalist / Internationalist ideologies... which are destroying people and planet

 

-

 

 

Your narrative is a bit fractured to say the least. You start with Hobbes and end up with Marx to prove what?

 

To quote Hobbes; "the natural state is" bellum omnium contra omnes or ‘war of all against all that the life of man without civilized society should be characterized as ‘solitary, poor, brutish and short." Hobbes professed the view that civilized society can and must be forced up the uncivilized world/primitive cultures. What I take that to mean are persons of other races. E.g. Africans etc. Hobbes also professed that it is a moral duty for the government to impose civilized order upon society via a rigid social contract. Hobbes work in my opinion is more on the order of racial white supremacy which is Hobbes view of a divine natural order. This is not about a preservation of individualism but the group order at the expense of the individual.

Edited September 11, 2013 by ralis

[eye_of_the_storm]

I am for non interference/ non-intervention, self determination principles

I think what I have presented so far at the least hints at that?

Edited September 11, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[ralis]

I am for non interference/ non-intervention, self determination principles

 

I think what I have presented so far at the least hints at that?

 

Using Hobbes as a reference is contrary to your OP of individualism. Hobbes spoke was speaking for social order as opposed to the absolute right to individualism.

[eye_of_the_storm]

I think social order is a natural phenomenon/ unwritten law... for example

You are in a romantic relationship, a mutual agreement / partnership with defined goals of a sort... one form of social order?

in addition to that your immediate associates will if they have any common decency not attempt to pursue a a romantic relationship with your partner... or your partner with others or yourself with others... common decency/ mutual respect etc...

This is a micro social order?

 

... an order of sorts always unfolds.

A natural order which keeps society as a whole harmonious.

If something threatens (some form of criminal activity) the harmonious order of society it has to be amended

This I suppose is "Civilization" ... when a group of people understand such without much coercion.

 

 

// The OP is not about Individualism either

More about unique collectives (cultures) and unique evolutionary paths / natural diversity

Edited September 11, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[ralis]

To quote you "It is just self preservation, true diversity + pursuit of unique evolutionary paths." Self preservation is not individualism?

 

Your narrative is still inconsistent. Have you even read Hobbes? Leviathan? Do you understand it?

Why not elaborate as opposed to running off to find a cut/paste that agrees with your assumptions.