New Member and Question

[juliank]

I wanted to say thank you to all of TTB as this website has been an amazing resource to address some of the issues I'm currently experiencing.

 

I am a mid 30's male, physically fit, ( lift weights, yoga, run) and have been doing vipassana meditation going on 5 years.

 

I have experimented with psychedelics, and had a bit of a drinking problem that I have recently rooted out completely.

 

Which brings me to my question.

 

As part of my commitment to making spirituality the number #1 priority in my life I have taken up retention. I am currently over 50 days.

 

Old Chi's thread was the inspiration and I can attest to all of the benefits that have been layed out in that thread and many others.

 

The retention part has not been an issue. That energy has been positively channeled into academics, work, personal relationships, vigorous exercise and meditation. Which leads me to my next point.

 

Since I started doing AYP's Spinal Breathing prior to my normal 20-30 minute vipassana practice I have felt that K energy rising. I am at a place where it's undeniable now that it is activated BUT it's currently not out of control.

 

After reading all the negative threads on AYP and on K I have to admit I had a negative minor anxiety attack where that familiar feeling of K rising and creating pressure and tension in the back of my head occurred. Thoughts are powerful. Both created within the mind and read is all I can say.

 

I am going to give up Spinal Breathing that is clear.

 

What I want to know is what I should do to PREVENT K from increasing or creating these pressures/tensions.

 

Should I masturbate or find a mate ? Should I give up vipassana for a short time ?

 

I now practice metta when I am out and about town, and I notice this helps.

 

I have not tried MCO because again after reading all the threads I have come to the conclusion I cant learn MCO from the internet or that it would address my issue.

 

At this point I want to do things that are eminently safe, boring even haha. I think I may have been in hasty in wanting "altered spiritual experiences" and now that I got a strong taste, perhaps even a spoonful, I am happy with just clarity, energy and enhanced feelings of love and kindness that I get from vipassana and yoga.

 

Do not get me wrong I am not shrinking from dark night of the soul type experiences, it is just that enlivening K via AYP pranayama is obviously not the way to go for me.

 

I know this is a long introduction. I say thanks to you all in advance for any type of advice.

 

UPDATED

 

I wrote this post last Saturday and since then gave up Spinal Breathing. That feeling of pressure/tension in the back of my skull subsided and is gone now. However, I find that my meditations have lowered in intensity since then. No more light streaming in at my third chakra as much. My retention is still strong at 55 days. Another thing, on Saturday night I went into deep prayer and asked God/Creator that if he choose to open up my K that it be done in the safest way.

 

I know this may sound self aggrandizing/or deluded but I have always felt a strong sensitivity to energetic phenomena. In fact, this was at the root of my drinking problem. I binge drank to forget that what I wanted at my deepest core was spiritual realization.

 

I am also curious is the Spinal Breathing simply an incomplete practice ? Obviously it does have some effect as since the very first day I did it immediate waves of energy enveloped me in my meditation. However, it felt that once it activated or enlivened the K I was no longer in control and it created a deep fear and anxiety within me.

 

Anyways, I won't be toying with pranayama at all. As much as I enjoyed the feelings of deep peace and energetic enlivenment from pranayama perhaps it's best I just stick to Vipassana and (asana)yoga.

 

 

[Dagon]

Did you became scared of yourself?

From my personal experience of pressures building up, I found that a heavy metal detox worked wonders.

There are heavy metals all around use that we ingest, and many of them aren't easily removed from the body without taking active measures.

Heavy metal detox, or detoxification, is the removal of metallic toxic substances from the body. In conventional medicine, detoxification can also be achieved artificially by techniques such as dialysis and (in a very limited number of cases) chelation therapy. There is a firm scientific base inevidence-based medicine for this type of detoxification. Many alternative medicine practitioners promote various other types of detoxification such as "diet detoxification".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_metal_detoxification

 

Abstract
The purpose was to discover whether fluoride (F) accumulates in the aged human pineal gland . . .
. . .By old age, the pineal gland has readily accumulated F and its F/Ca ratio is higher than bone.

In conclusion, the human pineal gland contains the highest concentration of fluoride in the body. Fluoride is associated with depressed pineal melatonin synthesis by prepubertal gerbils and an accelerated onset of sexual maturation in the female gerbil. The results strengthen the hypothesis that the pineal has a role in the timing of the onset of puberty. Whether or not fluoride interferes with pineal function in humans requires further investigation.

http://meridianenergies.net/the-effect-of-fluoride-on-the-physiology-of-the-pineal-gland/

http://www.karger.com/Article/Fulltext/47443

 

 

While fluoridation of public water systems has been advocated and encouraged by the national and state public health services, a number of questions concerning the need to add fluoride to public waters have gone unanswered.

Mother’s milk, containing as little as 0.01 to 0.05 ppm fluoride confers as much caries resistance on the child as other infants consuming 1 to 2 ppm fluoride present in commercially prepared formulas (1, 2).

In unfluoridated areas, containing natural fluoride levels of 0.1 to 0.5 ppm and even less, there exists a certain part of the population that are free of caries. In fact, in Nigeria, a population has been found where over 98% of the population is caries free and the fluoride level in their water is within the above range (3).

In a study at Great Lakes Naval Base, the previous life-long residence of caries-free recruits, were examined to determine if any trace elements could be correlated with the low incidence of caries.

The level of fluoride in the drinking water was not implicated.

It has also been noticed that primitive areas in which the people of the area eat unrefined food have a relatively low caries rate as compared to later when these areas became “civilized” and their diets begin to consist of more refined foods.

In these cases, caries rates often soar and addition of fluoride to the water supply is unable to restore the previous caries rate (5, 6, 7).

In areas and among people where nutrition is poor, mottling is observed at levels below the 1 ppm level used to fluoridate public water systems (at levels as low as 0.4 ppm fluoride).

This has been noticed in India (8) as well as among American Negroes whose mottling rate, in the 1-ppm range is higher than that of whites in the same area.

In a comprehensive study in Japan, the fluoride levels associated with the lowest incidence of caries ranged from 0.2 to 0.4 ppm (9).

In the 1930’s it was found that the ingestion of fluoride causes scurvy-like symptoms and that this was associated with a decrease in the Vitamin C levels of various tissues. Similarities in the symptoms of scurvy and mild fluorosis were also observed (10, 11).

In 1954, in an area containing 0.34 to 0.8 ppm fluoride in the water, 23% of the children 4-7 years old exhibited mottling (dental fluorosis). The Vitamin C contents in blood for normal children (without mottling) averaged 0.78 mg %. In the mottled enamel group, the blood Vitamin C levels of most children were extremely low (0.15 to 0.3 mg % in 29%, and 0.0 to 0.15 mg % in 31%. Treatment of these subjects with Vitamin C brought substantial improvement (12).

In 1964-65, the death rate of guinea pig population in Australia had reached epidemic proportion. (The Guinea pig is the only non-primate known that cannot synthesize its own Vitamin C). This death rate was eventually attributed to slightly higher levels of fluoride in feed pellets. Symptoms of sub-acute Vitamin C deficiency were observed. Fluorosis was diagnosed as the cause of death (13). In rats and mice (both of which synthesize their own Vitamin C, no such death rate was reported. U.S.P.H.S. [united States Public Health Service] experiments are performed with rats – they do not use guinea pigs (14). Both in the U.S. (15) and Russia (16) Vitamin C is recognized as being capable of retarding the development of fluorosis.

In guinea pigs exposed to fluoride, Vitamin C was found to normalize altered blood Ca, P, and sugar levels, as well as fluoride levels and ash contents in teeth and bone, and fat glycogen, and fluoride levels in the liver. Fed to men exposed to elevated fluoride uptakes, 100mg of Vitamin C increased the excretion of fluoride from 3-5.5 mg/day to 6-8.5 mg/day (17).

Most important, however, are the following findings:

1.) in guinea pig, fluoride added to the diet cannot make teeth more insoluble (caries-resistant) than the addition of Vitamin C to the diet and-

2.) in low fluoride areas, dietary supplementation with Vitamin C leads to fluoride deposition in teeth equal to the of higher fluoride areas (18, 19).

In conclusion, it appears that Vitamin C is and essential factor in the deposition of fluoride in, as well as the exclusion of fluoride from, various tissues in the body.

While increased fluoride in teeth had been correlated to caries-resistant of teeth, adequate Vitamin C levels in the diet in areas of 0.1 to 0.5 ppm fluoride (and even 0.01 to 0.05 ppm in the nursing infant) leads to adequate uptake by the teeth. Indeed in animals that manufacture there own Vitamin C (e.g. rats), Fluoride is found not to have a caries protective effect until it reaches levels of 10-20 ppm (14); at these levels it acts as a strong antibacterial in the mouth.

The indiscriminate fluoridation of water systems is not the solution to the problems of tooth decay. In the absence of sufficient Vitamin C, fluoridation will lead to Vitamin C depletion, dental fluorosis, and to abnormal levels of metabolites in blood tissues.

Adequate intake of Vitamin C may explain why people or populations in low fluoride areas can be caries-free.

 

http://fluoridationqueensland.com/blog/2010/08/03/vitamin-c-and-fluoridation/

http://naturaldentistry.us/1378/the-dangers-of-fluoride/

[Jeff]

Hi Juliank,

 

If you search the forums, you will find that there are a few strong anti-AYP advocates here. In particular, Seeker of Tao has done a pretty detailed analysis on what he believes are the problems with the AYP approach. Most of the detractors do not have any issues with the spinal breathing practice, there concern is with the mantra meditation (and approach around it).

 

While not an AYP practitioner myself, I am very familiar with their practices, and have visited one of their retreats. I am also pretty good friends with a few of their leaders. I would be happy to discuss it if you are interested. Also, if you post the questions more specifically in the main forum, I am sure that you will get a lot of comment on the topic.

 

Regards,

Jeff

[juliank]

Did you became scared of yourself?

 

From my personal experience of pressures building up, I found that a heavy metal detox worked wonders.

 

There are heavy metals all around use that we ingest, and many of them aren't easily removed from the body without taking active measures.

 

 

 

 

http://naturaldentistry.us/1378/the-dangers-of-fluoride/

 

I didn't become scared of my "normal self". However, that familiar feeling of K rising post-spinal breathing through my spinal cord took over and enveloped me to such a degree that I could no longer control my thought process. Whereas that same energetic feeling had occurred before it wasn't as strong and had enlivened my being and set me at peace. The best analogy would be that of caffeine. In just the right amount it increases motivation, social fluidity and enhances pleasure. In the wrong amounts it creates anxiety, and wrecks ones ability to function.

 

Although I like the idea of detoxing I don't think this was the issue. It was very clearly correlated to the spinal breathing practice. Once I stopped that I am back to normal. Also, I eat a nutritious diet, have no fluoride in my toothpaste or water due to filtering. I also do daily intermittent fasting. That said, I have no clue whether I have heavy metals in my body but I do try my best through lifestyle techniques to counteract the possibility.

[hydrogen]

Have a drink. Relax. You'll be fine. Just don't drink and drive and don't go overboard.

[Seeker of Wisdom]

Hi, juliank. Here's my critique of AYP: http://thetaobums.com/topic/25632-a-review-of-ayp-from-an-ex-practitioner/

 

Some comments on spinal breathing:

 

Holding mulabanda on inhale and exhale is a very unusual practice. It means that on the exhale you are taking the combined prana and apana from the inhale back down to the root to combine with yet more apana and prana. Anyone doing that for even slightly too long would have the equivalent of an uncontrolled fusion reaction taking place right where the kundalini rests.

 

Also if the prana and kundalini starts really flowing, it will go up the sushumna and have nowhere else to turn because none of the other nadis are properly developed yet. The classic yoga pranayamas often don't ask you to direct the prana along a particular nadi, so that the whole system can clean up naturally, in a balanced way...

 

It's not that guiding prana is bad in itself. It's just that AYP does it without forethought, and exclusively in one area. What about the feet, arms, sides, back, front?

 

AYP claims working on the sushumna automatically clears the whole system because its the main channel, so more prana through there, more flushing along the whole system. But thats nonsense because prana, like everything else, tends to take the path of least resistance. Technically its correct, but youd need to do AYP pranyama for two hundred years to really get somewhere. It would be like flushing a fire hose down the Nile to try to clear pollution from the world's entire water system.

And Tibetan_Ice says:

In AYP, Spinal Breathing's path is up the spine, makes a 90 degree turn at the center of the head to the brow, and then reverses the path back down the spine to muladhara. So what happens in a full blown kundalini experience that is rushing up the spine to the crown? Wouldn't trying to take the current back down the spine be like trying to swim against the current? Doesn't it make more sense to take the energy down the front channel instead and store it in the lower tan tien?

Fortunately, I never had real trouble with K. TI would be more help than me there, send him a PM and I'm sure he'd be happy to help.

 

Regarding developing a more healthy routine of practices for the future, I suggest that you get The Attention Revolution by Alan Wallace. See if basic mindfulness of breathing helps - and even if you find you have to abstain from cultivating for a little while, that book will really develop your understanding of some aspects of cultivation.

Edited September 10, 2013 by Seeker of Tao

[Aetherous]

If you do calm abiding meditation with external support (for instance, having your object of meditation be the leaves of a tree) it will help you feel normal and great. It can be considered as connecting with nature, which is a very Taoist thing and is great for well being.

It grounds you in reality.

It helps you to flow with life, calmly in the present, rather than be stuck on certain concepts and energies.

Internal meditations awaken internal energies; for instance AYP's deep meditation is an example of that...and "I am" is specifically said to directly awaken kundalini. It's good to cultivate a balance between internal and external energies...too much internal energy work leads to feeling energies coursing through your body outside of practice time, which creates energetic stagnation and poor well being. It's not good to have attention be stuck on internal energies.

Taoists and Buddhists say that good emptiness meditation means you're not even aware of the body. This emptiness of mind actually cultivates the energy of the entire body, internally...but it's done in a balanced way.

It's good to cultivate your attention to be fluid, and capable of anything. Practicing martial arts or working out somehow (I prefer lifting weights) ensures that the body and mind are working in harmony; if you want to move the leg, it'll move skillfully. But your attention is not stuck in the leg. So exercise is another way of grounding you in reality. It'll also open up your energetic channels to promote flow and well being.

Edited September 10, 2013 by turtle shell

[juliank]

Thanks for the responses. I am feeling much better now. It's a shame that I had that experience of pranayama as I feel it can be a real boost to one's practice. I have to view this though through the marathon/sprint analogy. Namely, that cultivation and spirituality should be viewed as a marathon and not as a sprint.

 

There is something in our culture that accentuates this MUST HAVE NOW approach. When it's applied to spirituality it can create some real disasters. I was thinking of signing up to KAP but I got this 'vibe" from some of the threads and posts on KAP that "speed" is a factor. Perhaps, It's projection on my part but as much as I want a full K transformation I ask myself whether looking to find the BEST FASTEST way to do this may be totally misguided and could totally affect the outcome.

 

I will try and find Attention Revolution and read it. I have seen it mentioned here and have meant to go out and get it.

 

This idea of internal/external energies strikes a chord with me. Yes, perhaps due to retention one's mind tends to focus on how one is feeling internally and also how one's energy is being received or what one is receiving from others. I have not been in nature in some time and will definitely do this soon since I live near some great spots.

 

For now, I will just resume my normal Vipassana practice with yoga as this seemed to be working fine on its own. I was just looking for something to boost my sensitivity to spiritual phenomena and came across kriya/pranayama and honestly that whole world fascinates me on an intuitive level. But I will just have to wait until a qualified teacher arrives on my path.

 

At this point I will continue to read TTB and pick up bits and pieces of wisdom as they resonate with me. The knowledge and openness in this community is pretty awesome.