MSG

[mat black]

I have experienced some severe asthma during my life on occasion of eating foods with a high MSG concentration.

The reaction usually occurs 2-3 hours after the meal. It is then, only after consideration that i have realised, or made the link between the MSG in the meal and the sudden severe asthma

 

Most of these expereinces happened years ago, leading me to think i had 'grown out' of this sensitivity to MSG

 

But last week it happened again, and i realised that what had eaten that night had a lot of MSG in it.

 

Here are 2 well written articles about MSG

 

http://www.fedupwithfoodadditives.info/fac...ets/FactMSG.htm

 

http://www.scq.ubc.ca/?p=735

 

 

If there are any other 'bums' with any MSG experiences, i'd be interested to know.

 

Thanx, mat

[karen]

Hi Mat,

 

It's a real issue. My father once stopped at a roadside "eating establishment" <cough, cough> for a meal, and getting back on the road, he suddenly felt sweaty, panicky, and his pulse was racing. Luckily there was someone to get him to a hospital. The usual cardiac screening turned up nothing. MSG poisoning.

 

I wouldn't say it's a sensitivity per se, because MSG is a neurotoxin, period, as is aspartame. It's just that some people will notice the effects more than others. The body will do what it needs to do to get the toxin the hell out of there.

 

It's good to know all the hidden sources of MSG in processed foods. Just about every packaged food product contains some hidden MSG under other names like "natural flavors" or "yeast extract" for example. That's why I propose a label-free diet . Eat foods that are just what they are and don't have a long list of ingredients on the label.

 

Doesn't mean that we shouldn't occasionally eat out or indulge in less-than-pristine foods at times, but good to be aware of the issue. When you ask most restaurants whether there's MSG in the food, they'll say no because they didn't deliberately add any. BUT.. the prepared sauces, soup bases, etc. as they buy them premade, are full of free glutamic acid that gets created in the processing of proteins.

 

I can tell you, I've talked to loads of food manufacturers over the years, beyond customer service to more "tech support," and rarely does anyone understand this issue.

 

Take care,

Karen

[Wayfarer64]

I know of no better sleep-aid. If I have any, even the amounts in chinese take-out when I ask for none-(always)... I am asleep within 20 minutes... I guess it is my body matabolizing the crap ASAP to be rid of it...

 

And yes it is pretty ubiquitous in many packaged foods.

 

The unlabled idea is a good one in any case...

 

-Bon Appitite!

Edited May 15, 2007 by Wayfarer64

[karen]

I know of no better sleep-aid. If I have any, even the amounts in chinese take-out when I ask for none-(always)... I am asleep within 20 minutes... I guess it is my body matabolizing the crap ASAP to be rid of it...

 

That's interesting! Because for most people, the body produces adrenaline to mobilize the toxin, and pulse rate increases.

 

Sleepiness after Chinese food could also be from the starches and sugars. I notice that sauces are getting sweeter. Or it's some food that isn't suited to your typology.

 

Unfortunately, the label-free diet might not be a big seller in the fad diet book market

 

Karen

[Wayfarer64]

I am a non-consumer when it comes to fads and markets... The only markets I'm ever in are maybe a health-food or Asian food market, I give the local super-market a little biz for sundries- but most of those things I try to by at the local independent Pharmacy- just to support a store that is not a maga-chain, like CVS A&P etc...

[mYTHmAKER]

I immediately get abuzz in my temples.

[Tao Parrot]

I wouldn't say it's a sensitivity per se, because MSG is a neurotoxin, period, as is aspartame.

 

Are you sure that's entirely correct?

 

The FDA has done numerous studies on MSG and has found it to be mostly safe in quantities used in cooking. The exceptions:

 

"But the report did identify short-term reactions known as MSG Symptom Complex in two groups of people. The first group includes people who may have a reaction after eating large doses of MSG, particularly on an empty stomach. A large dose would be three grams or more per meal. A typical serving of glutamate-treated food contains less than 0.5 grams of MSG. The second group includes people with severe and poorly controlled asthma.

 

MSG Symptom Complex can involve symptoms such as numbness, burning sensation, tingling, facial pressure or tightness, chest pain, headache, nausea, rapid heartbeat, drowsiness, and weakness. Asthmatics may experience these symptoms as well as difficulty in breathing. Additional studies in asthmatics under controlled conditions have not produced consistent results."

 

http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2003/103_msg.html

 

Stay away from it if it is causing adverse reactions for your body, of course.

[karen]

Are you sure that's entirely correct?

 

The independent research says yes. You could take a look at Russell Blaylock, MD.'s book, "Excitotoxins, the Taste that Kills," well-documented research which covers aspartame and MSG. The FDA is not doing independent research by any stretch, but is actually an arm of Big Agribusiness. Look at who's funding the research to find out where the bias lies.

 

Speaking of aspartame, I just learned that chemically, Silly Putty has more in common with food than artificial sweeteners do."

 

-Karen

[karen]

I meant big Pharma.. (I was thinking of the USDA). But here are a few good places to learn about the corruption of the FDA -

 

FDA Quotes

FDA - Monsanto, Dangerous Relations

[lotusbud]

MSG = Poison For me it's as simple as that.

 

When I was 6-9 years old I began having bouts of vertigo, tinnitus and vomiting. In the end it was diagnosed as meniere's disease. Sodium and MSG in the diet were the culprit and when they were eliminated as much as possible I recovered. Unfortunately by then the hearing in one of my ears was gone.

 

I'm not positive but doesn't MSG work as a flavour enhancer by basically splitting your tastebuds?

 

Poison.

[karen]

Splitting tastebuds? I really don't know. But it does alter the neurochemistry so that you think the taste is pleasant. It's the "unami" taste - isn't it a little strange that there is a name for the "taste" of MSG?!

 

You're lucky that the offending substances were identifed before they did more damage.

 

-Karen

Edited May 15, 2007 by karen

[Tao Parrot]

Splitting tastebuds? I really don't know. But it does alter the neurochemistry so that you think the taste is pleasant. It's the "unami" taste - isn't it a little strange that there is a name for the "taste" of MSG?!

 

The umami sensors detect glutamate, one of the standard amino acids your body uses. Nothing unnatural about it. The sensor works the same way as the sweet sensors do. It's a savory, meaty flavor.

[Tao Parrot]

Karen, you are indeed correct. I found multiple sources on PubMed classifying MSG as a neurotoxin.

[Lozen]

I'm not a fan of aspartame or MSG, but I'm not convinced they're any worse than, say, regular sugar.

[Tao Parrot]

I'm not a fan of aspartame or MSG, but I'm not convinced they're any worse than, say, regular sugar.

 

Like many of these things its a matter of degree. I'll inject a brief bit of taoism here since we are technically in the Taoist Discussion forum. Go the middle way; don't consume it in excess. You also don't have to avoid it completely either.

 

Sugar is a carbohydrate, and a fairly simple one compared to say, the long starches you get in pasta. Despite what you might think from the strange Atkins diet craze going around, your body needs carbohydrates. Glucose is a very important form of energy storage for your cells.

 

As for MSG, it's glutamate with a sodium stuck on it. The sodium will fall off anyway as soon as it hits water, so you're left with glutamate which is found in all sorts of foods like, for example tomatoes. This isn't to say an excess of it won't cause problems--this depends on your particular body. See the notes cited above--even the FDA, on your side or not, admits it can cause problems in some people.

 

I don't know anything about aspartame except that I drink waaaay too much of it.

[Lozen]

I think Atkins has been around too long to be a "craze," and I know my body does better without grains and sugar (except from fruit.) Whether I actually do what I should is another issue.

 

I know too many people who get migraines from MSG to mess around with it.

[TwoTrees]

mYTHmAKER - I immediately get abuzz in my temples.

 

- ditto !!

[mat black]

Thanks to everyone for the responses.

 

My most recent experience was from eating gravey prepared by my mother

A slight slip into clomplacency and...............gasp, cough etc etc

The thing is, i'm still feeling the effect after 6 days, mainly as chest tightness, shortness of breath and heart disturbance.

 

It's interesting to notice that most people (eg. all of my family) don't have any reaction to MSG, whereas it has almost killed me in the past.

 

This is ONE example of the uniqueness of the individual, and to me, highlights the futility of generalisations. We need to know our own bodys, and not accept that if someone says 'this is OK, it's never harmed me' that it's not necessarilly good for us

 

My 2 Qigong/taoist masters have been telling me that i'm very sensitive.

I'm learning that sensitive can mean sensitive to EVERYTHING, pleasureable and displeasureable.

Sensitive to beautiful (and to me, tangible) qi, during qigong and meditation,sounds, mantras, smiles, looks, mental transmissions. ...........but also sensitive to weather, loud noise, MSG!!!!!

 

 

Karen, it's apparent that you have some personal (your father) and professional experience with MSG and so are well versed on it's impact on the body.

It's interesting that you say it's not a sensitivity per say, as, being a neurotoxin, any reaction to it is the bodys' attempt at expelling it.

Makes me wonder whether if it's doing anything to people who don't have reactions to it, but they are just not aware of it. For example, maybe its having a slow, cumulative and toxic affect on their brain, heart, liver etc...........???????????

 

The more research i did into MSG, the more I found how insidious it is. Particulally in the sense that it has a moorish affect on the taste receptors. Moorish meaning that the brain senses it as pleasurable, but NEVER satiating, therefore encouraging an unconcious urge to eat more of whatever food is treated with it.

 

This being refered to as the 'umami' taste.

 

On the point of it being a naturally occuring substance, yes that's true, but it has never been natural for us to consume it as a concentrated extract

 

Thanx again everyone for the responses

[karen]

Hi Mat,

 

Exactly.. the fact that someone doesn't have symptoms doesn't mean that they're healthy or that they can eat low quality foods with impunity.

 

And the term natural has become a selling point that doesn't mean much. Everything is basically natural - even plastic comes from a natural source. Arsenic is natural.

 

Whereas tradiionally fermented cheese and such goes through a kind of synthetic process, and so do herbal formulas! But those are quite more edible and recognized by the body, than arsenic . I'd say it's natural for us to manipulate nature in certain ways.

 

Re. sensitivity, for example, there are generally innocuous substances like water and light. Pollens. But when some people have a headache, they're sensitive to light. Some people are phobic of water, and some immune systems reject pollens. Obviously those things aren't toxic (well, if the water is pure). Although, of course anything can be misused and become harmful.

 

In Rudolf Steiner's view, man is a 2-fold being - upper pole being the centripetal, cosmic force and lower pole being the centrifugal, earth force. Sensitivities often come from a dominance of the upper pole and need for more grounding in the lower pole.

 

And there are certain constitutional types that are more upper-pole oriented in the intellect than in the instinct, and those people tend to have more sensitivities.

 

Glad you brought out the point about MSG and appetite stimulation - ironic that aspartame does the same thing, for all those people who use it to try to lose weight! And considering that all convenience foods contain some form of MSG and many contain aspartame, that could explain a lot.

 

Maybe you could offer to find your mother another gravy recipe .

 

Take care,

Karen

[Tao Parrot]

Glad you brought out the point about MSG and appetite stimulation - ironic that aspartame does the same thing, for all those people who use it to try to lose weight! And considering that all convenience foods contain some form of MSG and many contain aspartame, that could explain a lot.

 

When I read this I thought "Oh no! Another vice (diet cola) down the drain!" But I did a search of PubMed and found numerous studies showing the opposite. Do you recall where you heard that aspartame increases appetite?

 

(Sorry all, we really should move this thread out of the Taoist Discussion forum if that's possible.)

[karen]

When I read this I thought "Oh no! Another vice (diet cola) down the drain!" But I did a search of PubMed and found numerous studies showing the opposite. Do you recall where you heard that aspartame increases appetite?

 

Well, PubMed isn't the place to look. Those studies are going to be in favor of the food manufacturers. It's politics, not science.

 

I've read so many references to the dangers of aspartame, including the effect of increasing appetite or food cravings, but here's one for starters by Dr. Lendon Smith:

GREED vs HEALTH

 

Also, Deadly Deception, and the work of Betty Martini.

 

Re. moving this thread, I got the impression way back when, that Sean was okay with discussions about health in this section. But if you'd like these topics to go elsewhere, let us know, Sean, ok?

 

-Karen

[sean]

Re. moving this thread, I got the impression way back when, that Sean was okay with discussions about health in this section. But if you'd like these topics to go elsewhere, let us know, Sean, ok?

Will do. I just wing it these days because I've lost the ability to distinguish between what is Taoist discussion and what is not. Nice to "see" you active here btw. I think we both took off for April.

[Tao Parrot]

Well, PubMed isn't the place to look. Those studies are going to be in favor of the food manufacturers. It's politics, not science.

 

As far as I can tell, PubMed is just a front end for Medline, which is a compilation of peer-reviewed science journals. Why do you think politics enters into it?

[karen]

Hi Tao Parrot,

 

Well, it's a big issue and would take me some time to go into all the angles, but here's one good article that explains the problems with the peer-review process.

Peer Review, Publication in Top Journals, Scientific Consensus, and So Forth

 

In order to really explore the issue of medical journals and the validity of studies, you have to look at who's funding the studies, who's deciding what articles to accept and on what criteria, how the studies are set up, what pre-determined agenda they're trying to prove (which influences the outcome), how the statistics can be manipulated to prove whatever they're looking for... just to name a few .

 

(And hey there, Sean!)

 

-Karen

Edited May 16, 2007 by karen

[mat black]

Will do. I just wing it these days because I've lost the ability to distinguish between what is Taoist discussion and what is not. Nice to "see" you active here btw. I think we both took off for April.

 

So is this topic OK Sean?

 

I was wondering if i could even bring up this topic, thinking 'would it warrent taoist discussion'?

 

But, i think (and hope) the definitions of what is 'taoist' are broad enough to encompass this topic.

 

If the great masters say that the tao can't be defined, then I suppose an MSG discussion is valid?

 

I mean, it does at least have implicationds for physical health. In addition, as Karen pointed out, there is a great deal of politics and deciept going on behind it's marketing and promotion.

 

I'm not into politics per se, for me, it's too emotive and based on divisive mental funtioning.

But if politics are being used to deliberately decieve the populace regarding food or other essential facets of living, then i think we at least need to be made aware of it.

 

Karen, thanx for explaining Steiner's analogy of man as a 2-fold being, it explains a lot to me.

 

Another thing about aspartame that i read years ago, is that if the body can't adequatelly eliminate the broken down chemical componants, it pack them away as fat on the......................................hips!

 

Have a look at people who drink a lot of the stuff and most (from my observation) have bulging hips. So in order to loose this weight, they drink 'diet' soda...........then the viscious cycle continues. This is cruel.