lino Posted September 12, 2013 All of these so-called "teachings" are trash and garbage. 1. no self <---- this is trash, self preservation and taking care of health are solid principles. 2. doubt or uncertainty, especially about the teachings <---these teachings are a fucking con job, they don't work in real life, a nasty malicious person is going to try get away with everything. There will be no forgiveness. 3. attachment to rites and rituals <---- stratification is garbage, this "god and guru" shit is trash. The system in all rights is truly TRIBAL. Tribal is from nuclear family, to extended family, to species, to good people. Priorities change upon sense of urgency. Good people who need help come first. So-called animals are good people too. 4. sensual desire <--- this is trash, people have sex for pleasure and reproduction. Good people want good things for good people.] 5. ill will <--- ill will will always be at the nasty shit. Sympathy and support will always be conditional, just like love will always be conditional. If I get sabotaged then support and sympathy will be cut off for those people. Sympathy and support will ALWAYS be for good people. 6. lust for material existence, lust for material rebirth <---- more trash. The more body and muscle mass you have, the more redundancies you have for your good code of DNA to restore itself. ] 7. lust for immaterial existence, lust for rebirth in a formless realm. <---- this is trash. The subtle has too many weakness and people can die soon from disease. A half ounce to 4 ounces is bullshit. Whoever you are get the fuck out of the body, I will hit you for a tribal hit. I'll reduce you. You know exactly who I am. 8. conceit <---- fuck that. Always love your self. People in some ways get socially manipulated and it happens up front and in the hidden.] 9.restlessness <----garbage. Try and be constructive and good people. It somehow pays off. 10. ignorance <--- more garbage.Not everybody can pay a lot of money for an education. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc benway Posted September 12, 2013 We all are simply looking for what works for us at this point in our lives. It looks like you've got it figured out. As long as you're getting what you want out of life and not preventing others from doing their thing, congratulations! 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Basher Posted September 12, 2013 Time to take the Garbage out ???? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thelerner Posted September 12, 2013 I've found value in the maxim, the opposite of a great truth is another great truth. When it comes to human life truth is paradoxical. Take a close look at the concept of no self. Obviously there's someone typing and looking etc., yet at our best, there is no self. 2 bits 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taomeow Posted September 12, 2013 Methinks this thread is for General rather than Taoist discussion. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joeblast Posted September 12, 2013 *folds arms, winks* 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zerostao Posted September 12, 2013 Methinks this thread is for General rather than Taoist discussion. i will go with your thought on this. as you were the originator of the Taoist discussion section, if i recall correctly? i feel you are well qualified to make that call Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc benway Posted September 12, 2013 Methinks this thread is for General rather than Taoist discussion. Are you trying to say that Daoist shit don't stink? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taomeow Posted September 12, 2013 (edited) @ zerostao: Indeed I was, and I thank you humbly. @ steve: re-read your Zhuangzi on the subject of shit. Edited September 12, 2013 by Taomeow 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Protector Posted September 12, 2013 Are you trying to say that Daoist shit don't stink? It won't be eternal... well, you know Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MooNiNite Posted September 12, 2013 Understanding no self is not an easy thing. To many people, it doesn't hit them immediately. It's perhaps one of the hardest things to realize and truly understand. not really. just a tool to quiet the mind. All of these so-called "teachings" are trash and garbage. What about the teaching: Just Be.? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flolfolil Posted September 12, 2013 i like this thread hehe Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted September 12, 2013 Hey! Lust for material existance ain't all that bad. I like this life I have. I wouldn't even change with Bill Gates. (Well, maybe with Hugh Hefner.) Well, I'm glad the thread is now in General because I would have had it in the Pit in no time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc benway Posted September 13, 2013 @ steve: re-read your Zhuangzi on the subject of shit. I don't need to read about it, I'm already full of shit... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted September 13, 2013 I don't need to read about it, I'm already full of shit... And it stinks when it comes out, Right? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
h.uriahr Posted September 13, 2013 Colorful choice of words..very eloquent 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted September 13, 2013 (edited) 6. lust for material existence, lust for material rebirth <---- more trash. The more body and muscle mass you have, the more redundancies you have for your good code of DNA to restore itself. Which spiritual teaching were you following that says you can't weight train? Scientology? 10. ignorance <--- more garbage.Not everybody can pay a lot of money for an education. Spiritual ignorance has nothing to do with how many degrees you have. 4. sensual desire <--- this is trash, people have sex for pleasure and reproduction. Good people want good things for good people.] Are you saying sensual desire is good or bad? Edited September 13, 2013 by alwayson Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Neophyte Posted September 13, 2013 not really. just a tool to quiet the mind. LOL. It's not just a tool to silence the mind, it's a truth itself: There really is no self. How would you define yourself? What makes you "you"? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MooNiNite Posted September 13, 2013 (edited) my dad totally owns a dealership Edited September 13, 2013 by MooNiNite Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted September 13, 2013 Colorful choice of words..very eloquent I get really fancy with my wordage now and again. I guess I had good teachers. There really is no self. How would you define yourself? What makes you "you"? Words really don't work here. Show and tell time. I would love to see the essence that I call "you" walk through that object I call "wall". If you can do that I will grant you only that either "you" do not exist or the "wall" does not exist. But even this test cannot prove that both "you" and "wall" do not exist. You really do exist. True, there was a time (before you were conceived) when you did not exist and there will be a time (after you die) when you no longer exist. But right now you are there and I am here. Space/time exist too. Space is presently expanding. Will it ever stop? Right now the thought by those who think these things say "No". And because of this time would never end either because time is the movement of objects from point A to point B. Personally, I don't buy this as I believe that space/time are cyclical as well as linear. Now, if you or anyone else responds to this post it will prove that "I" exist and that whoever responds exists. The existance of everyone else will still be questionable. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jainarayan Posted September 13, 2013 Unless I miss my guess, it sounds like the o.p. is rebelling against the rules, regulations, rituals and pontifications one finds in most internet discussions and in religions. This is something I can relate to. I've been following a thread elsewhere about the Laws of Manu in Hinduism. Most of them are totally ridiculous for this day and age, yet some people feel they are to be adhered to. I call it superstitious siliness. Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it. – The Buddha Dualistic thinking is a sickness. Religion is a distortion. Materialism is cruel. Blind spirituality is unreal. Chanting is no more holy than listening to the murmur of a stream; counting prayer beads no more sacred than simply breathing; religious robes no more spiritual than work clothes. If you wish to attain oneness with the Tao, don’t get caught up in spiritual superficialities. Instead, live a quiet and simple life, free of ideas and concepts. Find contentment in the practice of undiscriminating virtue, the only true power. Giving to others selflessly and anonymously, radiating light throughout the world and illuminating your own darkness, your virtue becomes a sanctuary for yourself and all beings. This is what is meant by embodying the Tao. - Lao Tze Hua Hu Ching Chapter 47 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted September 13, 2013 heh, heh so you're referring to the self as being the body and consciousness that make distinction. So that means if there were no body, there is no you. If there was no consciousness, there is no you. If you say that you can take away these things, then they lack a substance that prove that "I" exist. Where does all these manifestations come from? Yes, you understand me well. To your question: Tao gave birth to One One gave birth to Two Two gave birth to Three Three gave birth to the Ten Thousand Things. Another possibility: BANG! Then the processes of Nature (Laws of Physics) took over. Tzujan. (Ziran) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted September 13, 2013 Haha I would love to say that quote answer my question but that would be taking the false for the truth. Thus, I'm still investigating. I edited this post because I could add more but I want to push the point that I am still investigating. So should everyone else. Investigate till it becomes so clear that it slaps you in the face and you have no mere thought added to it. I totally agree with you. I am not trying to convince anyone that my understanding is the truest. All I am doing is sharing. If one still has questions then they should be either still seeking the answers or just say "Fuck It! I don't know." 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Neophyte Posted September 13, 2013 Words really don't work here. Show and tell time. It's curious that you are the one disagreeing with me. From other threads, I've gleaned that you're a materialist. Thus, you should agree with me more than anyone: It's the scientific and materialist perspective that the self does not exist. Use reductionism, not holism. I would love to see the essence that I call "you" walk through that object I call "wall". If you can do that I will grant you only that either "you" do not exist or the "wall" does not exist. But even this test cannot prove that both "you" and "wall" do not exist You really do exist. True, there was a time (before you were conceived) when you did not exist and there will be a time (after you die) when you no longer exist. But right now you are there and I am here. Yes, but how is the zygote that's produced at conception in any way similar to what exists when one dies? They are two very different things. Do you identify your self with your thoughts? Materialism shows that even consciousness doesn't really exist: It is not a "thing"; it is not a noun. It is more of a verb: a process! It is a function of the brain to take in and process information from the environment. It is just a product of the brain. When the brain dies, the illusion of consiousness ceases forever. Asking where the "mind" goes after bodily death is like asking where digestion goes after bodily death! It's a silly question. (Digestion is a function of the gastrointestinal tract; when the body dies, digestion is no longer needed. Likewise with the consciousness.) And the consciousness--which so many people identify as being their "selves"--is very susceptible to changes in body chemistry. Alter one's testosterone level, and one becomes more aggressive; drink alcohol and one becomes silly; take psych meds and see the changes in personality can be profound....Alter any hormone or chemical and the "self" is changed. Which then, is the true self? Materialism shows that none of them is the true self: the resulting behaviour and thoughts are just what we get when we alter the body's chemistry. People identify their thoughts as being profoundly personal, as being their own. They believe that the thoughts they think represent themselves (that they choose the thoughts they think), and that their interests are their own. But really, thoughts are hugely dependent on the genes we inherited at conception: If slightly different genes happened to end up on your chromosomes during meiosis, then your thinking patterns throughout your life could be extremely different. You would probably have very different interests, talents, thoughts, etc. And you'd be identifying those traits as being "you." After taking all of this into consideration, how can you still claim that their is a "self"? Your body is constantly changing; your consciousness is continuously changing. Nothing about either can define "you." The more you apply reductionist scrutiny, the more you'll come to realize that there is nothing about you that you can cling to to identify as being your "self." This is the materialist perspective: it is reductionistic in nature and does not give any argument for a "self". The "self" is an illusion and holism supports this notion. Space/time exist too. Space is presently expanding. Will it ever stop? Right now the thought by those who think these things say "No". And because of this time would never end either because time is the movement of objects from point A to point B. Personally, I don't buy this as I believe that space/time are cyclical as well as linear. Actually, according to Dr. Victor Stenger, professor Emeritus at the University of Honolulu, and a Ph.D. in theoretical physics, time itself may not even exist. Read his book "Timeless Reality." I have the book but can't understand it because one needs substantial background in physics to comprehend this tome. It is mainstream physics, and well-received by the physics community. If Einstein was correct, then time may not exist at all: everything exists simultaneously. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lino Posted September 14, 2013 We all are simply looking for what works for us at this point in our lives. It looks like you've got it figured out. As long as you're getting what you want out of life and not preventing others from doing their thing, congratulations! Thanks Hear are more truths: Self-preservation - any little thing that you do will be something, everything is situational. <--- from eating to physical exercise. Conditional support - only help to do good and healthy things. Never EVEN help a malicious person a single inch. Conditional sympathy - only find sympathy for good people, malicious people deserve the shit. Break the rules of so-called "authority" even if you have to kill people. Even clean authority has to be looked at with a close eye. Corrupt authority are never even legitimate so fuck that shit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
