Finding Time

[Flynn]

Hi All,

 

I am a high school student, and I have been trying my best to practice meditation and cultivation, but I have had problems finding time to do so with my schedule. I go to a boarding school in southern California (I am from Connecticut however, a bit of a culture shock), and other than between study hours and sleep, in free periods and after sports, we don't have a lot of free time to do things like tai chi or meditation. I know that most of you are adults and might not have been involved in these practices at that point in your life, but I would love to hear any advice you might have about fitting these things into my life better. Also please don't take me as someone who knows very well what they are talking about when it comes to Taoism and qigong and such, I am entirely new to the subject and have no real formal training. My only experience is what I have read and studied (Kosta Danaos' books, the Tao of Meditation, the Tao Te Ching, and a few others). If any of you could give me some advice as to how to pursue this further and make it a larger part of my life, it would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thank you!

[lotusbud]

I felt I should respond to this Flynn, because it is something I still struggle with. Especially when you are in school or college the schedule can get out of hand quickly.

 

Sometimes this can just be a matter of honing your organizational skills, (which in most places they never teach you). Define your tasks and goals, and the steps involved clearly and give yourself time limits. Focus on your task and don't multi-task. This can go a long way towards giving you more free time and improving your results.

 

But beware of launching into this with 110% gusto. Take it easy and let it develop naturally or you are sure to crash and be worse off in the end, just like meditation.

Also beware of "resting" that isn't really restful.

 

You can also incorporate your meditation into all your activities. Sometimes all it takes is three breaths to get back.

[voice]

The inner smile can be applied always

 

An inner smiled focus to your lower tan tien can keep you grounded in yourself when classes and assignments and desire for escape pull you away from the task at hand.

 

When heading to sleep, simple massages of your organs with a smiling intent to them will help with deep sleep.

[el_tortugo]

I was most disciplined in high school, not missing a morning of yoga and meditation. I woke early and did it before anything else. I didn't to any Taoist yoga at the time because I didn't know what it was.

 

I would suggest sneaking what ever you do in through out your day, as you have time.

[Flynn]

Thanks alot for the advice guys

[Lozen]

the trick is to play with time and not let it play with you

[Smile]

The reason you can't find time for meditation is because you don't want it bad enough and you think you will have time soon enough... some time in the future. You won't. To begin the training, you have to force yourself against all your feelings, desires, instincts and your DNA programming.

 

Cut down on sleeping and things you can do without.

[sunshine]

Cut down on sleeping and things you can do without.

 

True students never sleep!!!

 

And if they do usually only because they are pretty much fatigued...

 

still. Cut down on things one can do without is a pretty clear advise...

 

stop watching Gilmore Girls everyday and many others things on the "not so necessary list"...

 

And believe me. Time in school is an issue, but it stays an issue thereafter !!!

 

 

Harry

[Spectrum]

Transitionary times are the best for meditation. Moving or Still. Between classes practice your flow, how fluid can you walk through the halls between people. In the mornings rise & stand, in the evenings squat & sit, regular exercise will bring stillness to the mind through the body, that way you'll build a strong foundation for your 30's and 40's. When your young cultivate youthful arts.

 

Spectrum

 

PS - replacing tv time w/ chi gung or tai chi could be a good place to start.

[Leidee]

"Finding" time is always going to be an issue because, no matter how old or what study/work you do, there are many demands on our time. We all have many people to look after and, unfortunately, we can often fall into a habit of placing other people or situations before ourselves.

 

Personally, if I can only find 5 minutes in a day - I take that and meditate. If I have longer, then I will do some forms.

 

Life can be too busy but it is important to honour yourself and your needs because this makes you much more capable of dealing with the stressors of every day living.

 

L

[RedFox]

I remember I used to sit in my high school chemistry class and practice a hypnotic script that I learned (only thing I knew about at the time) Nothing fancy, just putting my awareness in my feet, relaxing what I could sitting here, then moving up and down the body. Not to put myself to sleep to escape a dull class, just to practice. I found it much more refreshing (and fewer scholastic side effects) than sleeping. I found it was easier to memorize things too.

 

Working the inner smile would be a great way to spend the time.

 

I agree about the sleeping thing, but like mentioned, you don't have to go nuts with it. Just get up 10-15 minutes earlier, and use the extra time for your practices. In a very short while, you'll find that you naturally need less sleep, and have more energy for school, sports, etc.

[thelerner]

Two thoughts, one use the inbetween time. Meditate in bed. When you wake up, stay there. I'll run through some energy meditations, HT type things such as the orbit or Fusion practices. Late at night when if I can't sleep, I'll sit on a zafu and count my breaths(Visapanna). In the shower I'll set aside a few minutes to quietly chant. Standing in line, I'll do work on the Archaeous(Rawn Clark) system which works well when you stand.

 

Two, everything can be meditation. When you walk, walk well, good structure, awareness, quiet mind. In class sit well, no slouching, perfect your attention. When writing, write well, slow down and understand that your script reflects your mind.

 

The question isn't when can you find time, the question is how to apply meditation to the aspects of your life.

 

Michael

[Yoda]

When writing, write well

 

That's one that I'm working on.

[Taomeow]

I recommend the book by Deng Ming-Dao titled The Wandering Taoist. The protagonist's early years in a traditional setting of a rigorous monastic taoist school could give you an idea of "what to do when" in your own cultivation. He is shown being trained in physical, martial, and academic disciplines for several years, getting his body and his mind in a strong and supple shape before he is allowed to undertake his first-ever meditation.

 

Personally, I believe it is the only right way to go about it. Meditation is a high level cultivation skill which has been sold to the public only recently as something simple and available to everyone at any time. Most people who think they mediate are really using various "relaxation techniques," which is not a bad thing of course but is just about as relevant for true meditation (that can only happen to a prepared, healed and strengthened bodymind) as being able to climb a flight of stairs is to being able to climb Mount Everest. Meditation is this level of skill; mistaking it for a relaxing stroll into "a peaceful mind" is common, and overwhelmingly irrelevant. For some reason, people who would never think they can scale Mount Everest without years of thorough preparation of the body and the mind often believe they are perfectly ready to scale a much higher summit, that of spiritual "otherworldliness," "enlightenment," "perfection-nondecay-immortality" anytime they have a few minutes to spare. Far out.

 

So my advice, should you care to consider it, would be to concentrate your every effort on procuring an impeccably healthy, strong, supple body and an academically unsurpassed, competent mind at this time in your life, and forget all about other kinds of cultivation -- these are for later, when your will and your inner strength have been seasoned to a truly meditation-worthy shape. Do not sacrifice sleep; try to make the healthiest nutritional choices you can under the circumstances; temper your yi (reality-shaping intent) and learn to be guided by conscious intent in everything you do, focusing it on exactly the thing you are doing. Don't try to tie down your mind, something a great martial hero of 16th century Japan, Munenori, likened to "chaining a cat, a most horrible thing to do." Let it roam free... there's things for it to explore, the main one being yourself. Know thyself. Know who you are before you set out to modify this entity, know who you really are before attempting to become someone else. Good luck!

[Smile]

Meditation is a high level cultivation skill which has been sold to the public only recently as something simple and available to everyone at any time. Most people who think they mediate are really using various "relaxation techniques," which is not a bad thing of course but is just about as relevant for true meditation (that can only happen to a prepared, healed and strengthened bodymind) as being able to climb a flight of stairs is to being able to climb Mount Everest.

Great comment. Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Ian]

Personally, I believe it is the only right way to go about it.

 

I don't wish to sound agressive here, because I really do respect your commitment to your own path and the hours you've put in, but do you really think you have enough experience to suggest that there is only one right way?

 

Meditation is a high level cultivation skill which has been sold to the public only recently as something simple and available to everyone at any time. Most people who think they mediate are really using various "relaxation techniques," which is not a bad thing of course but is just about as relevant for true meditation (that can only happen to a prepared, healed and strengthened bodymind)

 

I would like to suggest that there are types of meditation which can prepare, heal and strengthen your bodymind as you go along, minutely, incrementally, perhaps, but usefully, nonetheless.

 

Know thyself. Know who you are before you set out to modify this entity, know who you really are before attempting to become someone else. Good luck!

 

This is a whole nother can of worms and we may disagree entirely because the same words mean different things to us, but I'd say no, absolutely thrice no. Your self is entirely false. Those are not your thoughts, just thoughts, not your feelings, just feelings. What you really are is not a who, it's a what.

 

By all means recognise the truth of what's there, but do not at all assemble an idea of your nature.

 

But then that may just be the whole buddhist vs taoist thing coming up again.

[Taomeow]

I don't wish to sound agressive here, because I really do respect your commitment to your own path and the hours you've put in, but do you really think you have enough experience to suggest that there is only one right way?

 

I said, "personally, I believe..." -- which means my statement is based on "my experience" and "my understanding," which always and for all purposes suffice for "me" to have and express a "my opinion." I didn't present is as an "authoritative" opinion, and while I may or may not be entitled to an authoritative opinion, I am, at all times, entitled to "my opinion," and if I don't fail to specify it's "my opinion," I believe I'm off the hook.

 

However, if you mean to ask what exactly my experience is that causes me to have such an opinion: for some three years in the past, I worked with clients who have been physically, emotionally, and/or mentally damaged by all manner of new age endeavours. I have seen the damage, have listened to stories of how it came about, and have helped people undo the damage.

 

I would like to suggest that there are types of meditation which can prepare, heal and strengthen your bodymind as you go along, minutely, incrementally, perhaps, but usefully, nonetheless.

 

Maybe. Here in Southern California, I see more people who, at one point or another in their lives, or currently, did or do this or that type of meditation, than anywhere else. However, after having lived on three continents, I submit they are "en masse" the most shallow, superficial, and spiritually fast-asleep bunch I've ever encountered anywhere.

 

This is a whole nother can of worms and we may disagree entirely because the same words mean different things to us, but I'd say no, absolutely thrice no. Your self is entirely false. Those are not your thoughts, just thoughts, not your feelings, just feelings. What you really are is not a who, it's a what.

 

By all means recognise the truth of what's there, but do not at all assemble an idea of your nature.

 

But then that may just be the whole buddhist vs taoist thing coming up again.

 

Maybe. Taoists (or at least those who don't belie the name) believe in the absolute relevance, every step of the way, of something I call developmental history, both personal and universal. Buddhists may or may not believe that their "self is entirely false," but I know for a fact that eliminating from consciousness things you don't know about yourself (by separating your "self" from some purported "non-self" that is bigger-better and throwing it into some universal garbage bin for "discarded selves" -- which I am yet to understand where they put exactly in their cosmology) is a ubiquitous defense mechanism , and it doesn't matter whether people resorting to it call themselves Buddhists or Christians or atheists or taoists -- in every case, the only "entirely false" identity or non-identity, self or non-self, is one put together by means of defensive ideation. The motivation for "discarding the self without knowing it" may seem philosophically wise or morally noble, but the true reason for the denial of "self" is mortal fear of knowing how exactly one's developmental history has shaped one into what one is or "isn't" today. The Way is the way of courage though, not of escapist denial, not of running scared from who you are on the basis of this entity's "unreality." "Know thyself" is a call for courage, not for self-aggrandation. Tao Te Ching is "The Way of Power," and true power needs no props from self-aggrandation of a "false self" -- but it is the powerful way of courageous self-knowledge, not the escape route to some blissful self-ignorance. At least that's what I've been able to discern so far.

[Cameron]

Taoists are cool IMO.

[Ian]

Maybe. Taoists (or at least those who don't belie the name) believe in the absolute relevance, every step of the way, of something I call developmental history, both personal and universal. Buddhists may or may not believe that their "self is entirely false," but I know for a fact that eliminating from consciousness things you don't know about yourself (by separating your "self" from some purported "non-self" that is bigger-better and throwing it into some universal garbage bin for "discarded selves" -- which I am yet to understand where they put exactly in their cosmology) is a ubiquitous defense mechanism , and it doesn't matter whether people resorting to it call themselves Buddhists or Christians or atheists or taoists -- in every case, the only "entirely false" identity or non-identity, self or non-self, is one put together by means of defensive ideation. The motivation for "discarding the self without knowing it" may seem philosophically wise or morally noble, but the true reason for the denial of "self" is mortal fear of knowing how exactly one's developmental history has shaped one into what one is or "isn't" today. The Way is the way of courage though, not of escapist denial, not of running scared from who you are on the basis of this entity's "unreality." "Know thyself" is a call for courage, not for self-aggrandation. Tao Te Ching is "The Way of Power," and true power needs no props from self-aggrandation of a "false self" -- but it is the powerful way of courageous self-knowledge, not the escape route to some blissful self-ignorance. At least that's what I've been able to discern so far.

 

Thank you. It's nice to be able to discuss things one passionately believes without it getting fierce. I was a bit nervous, not of you personally, but because there's been so much rancour recently.

 

I think we're moving towards a question of emphasis, rather than of disagreement. I'm with you in being completely against evasion or escapism. I've been taught very firmly that the only way round is through, as it were: that you can't shake off any trauma, blockage, karma, whatever you want to call it, unless you are prepared to face it and experience it in full.

 

Where we diverge is that this experience, according to what I've been taught, and my limited experience so far, is always physical. Always in the body, never a matter of knowing, of words.

 

How do you experience self-knowledge?

[xenolith]

An inquisitive, probing, and well articulated question Ian. Thank you for it. I look forward to TM's reply.

 

Love.

 

xeno

Edited May 24, 2007 by xenolith

[Taomeow]

With smiles to Smile and Xeno,

 

Ian, I'm glad we're in agreement on a point I see as crucially important --

as for arguing with positions that I happen to see as hopelessly off (in some other threads of late, e.g), I think I've learned by now to "just drop it" -- who am I to blow against the wind?..

 

As for your question --

wow meow, I could spend the rest of my life talking about how I experience self-knowledge and bore you and everyone else stiff pretty soon --

 

so I'll try to be at least relatively brief. You say, to you it is always physical, not "knowledge in words." I say, to me the experience of self-knowledge is the experience of integration of all parts and aspects of the entity I know as "me" in the continuity of its existence in space-time (first and foremost, key word "continuity") and beyond (later, when the space-time aspects have "all" been integrated properly). The main tool of integration is systemic feeling, and the main tool of systemic feeling is access to systemic (not mental or verbal) memory. Self-knowledge is systemic, i.e. physical is meaningful, physical IS knowledge. Words matter when they can accurately reflect some aspect of feeling, words matter when they are part of me as much as emotions and sensations, and they don't when they aren't, when they are "empty sound" and not an integral part of "me." Words are high above the main action of self-knowledge (not hierarchically above, more like anatomically... for words and thoughts are physically "higher" in my body than the bulk of emothons and physical sensations: thoughts that can be expressed in words arise from below and end up being formulated way on top of the neocortex, the topmost layer of my brain; and words that express these thoughts travel anatomically high too, ending up at the tip of the tongue; and I don't live there but I don't disown these parts of me either --

I mean, I'm not my neocortex and I'm not my tongue, but both are parts of me and self-knowledge includes, though is by no means limited to, what they're up to) --

 

so, I'll give you an example of what I mean by "self-knowledge via integration." I like coffee. This is part of self-knowledge, right? I just know I like it, and don't need someone else to tell me that I do -- this is knowledge based on physical feeling. But what if someone ("me," e.g.) asks, "why?" Why do you like coffee? This is where self-knowledge based on integration begins. Because I like to keep my dopaminergic system in good repair. Because I'm Wood with too much Fire in my chart in Chinese astrology, and coffee gives some food to my Fire without depleting my proprietary Wood. Because it improves communication between the left and right hemispheres and facilitates connections, it's a beverage that aids integration. Because it is a natural sunscreen and I live in a sunny climate and don't like chemical sunscreens. Because of all the scientific papers I read about coffee's propensity to prevent several types of cancer, diabetes, neuromuscular disorders such as Alzheimer's and Parkinsons, and keep basal metabolism at a level younger than one's biological age. Because I don't like puritannical denial of yummy harmless stimulants. Because nothing smells better in the morning. Because I've been taught by a cool guy how to make the best coffee in the world when I was a teenager serial-dating in Armenia one bright summer many moons ago and the memory is cool and I'm proud of the way I make my coffee -- still the best in the world. Because my lower dantien grumbles if I don't drink it. And so on. It could go on and on, and it's one tiny little aspect of "me" -- but once you start digging deeper into "why" -- "why me, why now, why this" -- an interesting thing transpires.

No aspect of "me" is smaller than any other, they all tie in together into my developmental history and into who I am today and into everything it entails. This I believe is what the classics mean when they assert a sage can know the world without leaving her room, this is what "as above so below" means, this is self-knowledge equal to Knowledge, and to have an accurate "theory of me" means to have an accurate "general theory of everything." Key word "accurate..." "Why" do I need to pay attention to my dopaminergic system? Because I was born slighty premature and it is, as a result, slightly immature, which means additional difficulty in handling stress. Why was I born slightly premature? Because my mother never had patience with me. How do I know? I remember. Not in my head... I remember with my whole being what it feels like when your mother "has no patience with you." And so on... Self-knowledge is integration of everything that ever happened to "me" into everything that I will ever know as "me." "Everything" doesn't exclude anything...

[freeform]

.

Edited December 18, 2019 by freeform

[Taomeow]

Freeform,

 

1. I agree, Armenian coffee is the best even though I've drank it as made by Turks, Greeks and Cypriots, as well as Arabs, Austrians and Brazilians.

2. I used to live in the country now known as "the former Soviet Union" and Armenia was part of it then. Now don't blush or anything but I have to say this -- the best-looking guys anywhere in the world hands down, not just the best coffee, is my clearest memory of a vacation once spent there -- and this cat did get around quite a bit in some, though not all, of her nine lives.

3. The question "why" is useless only if you seek a mental , intellectual, ideational, etc., "explanation." Yep, that's useless all right. It is, however, the single most important question to ask when you seek to understand yourself systemically and, most importantly, not to just accept "I feel a certain way" as a given but to find out why you feel the way you feel. Of all my experiences, this one, finding out what it is that makes me tick on the feeling level, has been the single most enlightening one -- nothing comes close. To know yourself is not to know "how you work," it's to know "why you work the way you work." I see it as the only (sorry everybody, I mean "I, me, see it this way," of course) -- the only path that leads to freedom. You can only be free if you are equipped to choose your own behaviors consciously. If you aren't, you wind up running programs in response to buttons pushed, while knowing nothing about the programs, the whoever wrote them for you, the how exactly and when exactly, nor of your status as a piece of unconscious-button-operated machinery of which you yourself ain't no master. Only obtaining a precise and systemic response to "why" gives you a choice to respond or not respond to those programs, to retain or dismantle the buttons, to have control over yourself -- which is the only thing I understand as "freedom." So, basically, "know thyself" is another way to say "know why you are the way you are," and whoever doesn't know and won't know has effectively agreed to be a slave of whatever or whoever "makes them" the way they are. The kind of "why" I mean is the sword that cuts the chains.

Edited May 28, 2007 by Taomeow

[freeform]

3. The question "why" is useless only if you seek a mental , intellectual, ideational, etc., "explanation." Yep, that's useless all right. It is, however, the single most important question to ask when you seek to understand yourself systemically and, most importantly, not to just accept "I feel a certain way" as a given but to find out why you feel the way you feel. Of all my experiences, this one, finding out what it is that makes me tick on the feeling level, has been the single most enlightening one -- nothing comes close. To know yourself is not to know "how you work," it's to know "why you work the way you work." I see it as the only (sorry everybody, I mean "I, me, see it this way," of course) -- the only path that leads to freedom. You can only be free if you are equipped to choose your own behaviors consciously. If you aren't, you wind up running programs in response to buttons pushed, while knowing nothing about the programs, the whoever wrote them for you, the how exactly and when exactly, nor of your status as a piece of unconscious-button-operated machinery of which you yourself ain't no master. Only obtaining a precise and systemic response to "why" gives you a choice to respond or not respond to those programs, to retain or dismantle the buttons, to have control over yourself -- which is the only thing I understand as "freedom." So, basically, "know thyself" is another way to say "know why you are the way you are," and whoever doesn't know and won't know has effectively agreed to be a slave of whatever or whoever "makes them" the way they are. The kind of "why" I mean is the sword that cuts the chains.

 

 

Firstly I must blush lol...

 

and then I can explain what I've found after experimenting with 'why' for a few days!

 

So you already see the mental level 'why' - I didn't know 'why' could work on any other levels, so I tried - I experimented with myself, my girlfriend and two of my friends.

 

I tried 'why' on middle dan tien, heart level - I had a thought/feeling about who I am, then I asked several versions of 'why' (but on the heart level) - 1)"why did I have this thought?", then 2)"why do I have this thought about myself" finally 3)"why am I asking why" - normally when asked at the mental level I get visual and wordy interpretations that lead to more words and more interpretations - asking the heart was, ofcourse different - a lot more kinesthetic feeling, remembered (rather than 'constructed') visual representations.

 

so with question number 1) I got a very thorough stream of emotional information, parents, ancestors, life experiences all flashed up... 2) Similar, but more about my individuated self, a lot of tightness in the solar plexus 3)didn't work - it became a 'strange loop' and I got no answer.

 

I tried the same questions on the lower dan tien level, but that was as productive as asking the ocean 'why?'

 

I found that when asking why (about anything), even on the middle dan tien level, my mind was drawn in, I couldn't be in the present... Asking others why had a terrible effect - eg. my gf came home saying "I feel tired" I looked at her and asked why? - all her energy went up to her head, she was answering whilst making herself more tired (I could see it) and getting very intertwined in the 'drama' that the mind creates, after that it was hard to bring her back to the present... I tried it with my scientifically minded friend - he raised an oppinion and asked why he had this oppinion - so he came up with some story that was obviously a mental and rather limited perspective (the original oppinion was not so bad)...

 

So in conclusion, I have an even more distaste for why now

 

The way I approach growth is by taking my awareness (and energy) out of 'content' and put it more on the 'process' - if you think of a red car now - the imagined car is the content and the act of thinking it is the process. "why?" tends to bring attention to content and "how" tends to bring attention to process: "why is the car red?" - "how do you know the car is red?" - feel the difference?

 

even so 'how' still requires input from the mind - although I find the mental output more usefull as a result...

 

I don't think 'self knowledge' is possible by asking questions of any kind, or even by 'looking inside' - self knowledge imo is only possible through relationships with other people... I think the world will start to learn that quite soon...

 

sorry for the long post, and sorry for deviating so wildly from the topic - although I would suggest, based on my research, you can save a lot of time and progress spirituall a whole lot more by never asking 'why' and instead staying in that space that feels confusing, uncertain, 'pointless' and without answers... I certainly enjoy myself more this way.

[Pietro]

what an interesting exchange.

 

Taoists (or at least those who don't belie the name) believe in the absolute relevance, every step of the way, of something I call developmental history, both personal and universal.

 

I find the concept of developmental history very interesting. I actually never heard it from Bruce. And in fact when you practice inner dissolving you often release tensions, blockages, problems, traumas you were not even aware of having and much less could you track the cause of them. The phrase Bruce would say (over and over and over and over and...):

if you are on the torture table, would you rather:

know why you are tortured,

know how you are tortured,

know the instruments of yout torture and the exact depth that each instrument will excavate inside you;

 

or would you rather get off the table.

 

Sometimes during the release process you might get a glimpse, an intuition on what caused it. But often you would just get the feelings and sensations. Feelings and sensations that, as Ian pointed out, will be as strong as the real experience if you are really going to clear the thing out of your system. So no denial on the sensation point of view, but also no way to know what has happened.

 

In light of what I say, can you explain better developmental history? For I seem to have problems in fitting together with this teaching, and since every taoist believes in it I assume it should fit together in a coherent whole.

 

Thanks,

Pietro