How do you see yourself?

[Dagon]

Is this how you see "yourself" ?

 

 

 

If this is how you see yourself then you may be stuck in reflection.

 

(The image broke, the previous one showed how it leads to an infinite regression.)

 

 

 

 

Trapping and binding awareness within the eyes and brain, preventing much spiritual progress, such as the functional channel of MCO. I mean You can probably still do it with a self, but fme it doesn't work nearly as well. (Especially the compassion and love part)

 

 

 

 

There is a right brain and a left brain, both dedicated to different functionality.

 

 

 

Then there is a center of them, which is the goal for awakening, ime. The center is sort of like the Tao, encompassing both aspects but neither aspect.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Dagon

[Dagon]

Here is a great koan (poem) that exemplifies this point imo:

 

 

When the nun, Chiyono, studied Zen under Bukko of Engaku she was unable to attain the fruits of meditation for a long time.

At last one moonlit night she was carrying water in an old pail bound with bamboo. The bamboo broke and the bottom fell out of the pail, and at that moment Chiyono was set free!

In commemoration, she wrote a poem:

 

In this way and that I tried to save the old pail

 

Since the bamboo strip was weakening and about to break

 

Until at last the bottom fell out.

 

Nor more water in the pail!

 

No more moon in the water!

 

http://deoxy.org/koan/29

 

Chiyono saw through the reflection of self.

Edited September 15, 2013 by Dagon

[Marblehead]

My Buddhist friends here will likely enjoy seeing what I am about to say:

 

I can't see myself. If I look into a mirror I see the physical essence but there is so much more of me than can ever be seen in a mirror. And there is much more than others can ever see as well.

 

When we talk about ourself we are not talking just of what we see in a mirror but rather a collection of objects and energies all too numerous to define.

 

But I will say that I think my most important "part" is my brain. Without it I wouldn't know existance.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Marblehead

[Dagon]

Well, I think that is because you think you are the awareness/spirit, (instead of having a spirit, which is a subtle but important difference) rather than your thoughts or what people think of as you to build a residual self-image. You may have even already seen what the Buddhist are talking about, but are just saying it in a different way if that is so.

 

The idea is to stop clinging to things and prevent suffering when those things are gone, or when you are gone.

 

Like if you love someone, and feel pain because they leave you, it is likely because you considered them yours somehow, and made an attachment to them, and when they leave, the attachment that you created remains and snaps back at you causing pain and suffering.

 

It's learning to love freely, like a mother would her only child, but without the biased attachment that a mother has for her only child.

Edited September 15, 2013 by Dagon

[Jainarayan]

I can see myself physically in a mirror, but I only see myself, my personality, mentally. Maybe that applies to everyone, I don't know if it does. In my case it comes from a lot of so-called soul-searching, reflection (no pun intended), and contemplation (call it meditation?). Some things I like, some things I don't. I have an inkling of how others see me. I like the lyrics of the Leon Russell song Magic Mirror, which I contemplate often:

 

"Magic Mirror, won't you tell me please, do I see myself in anyone I meet?

Magic Mirror, if we only could try to see ourselves as others would."

[Marblehead]

WoW! Now I'm going to have to post a Leon song in "What are you listening to". I haven't listened to him for a while.

 

But yes, if we could see ourself as others see us many of us would be surprised, I am sure.

[Dagon]

No offence guys, but that is such a waste of time to even consider (imo).

 

It's kinda like thinking how things could have been different if you changed something in the past.

 

Fruitless.

 

Like, what if I would have won the lottery . . . so what?

 

It doesn't make any difference.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Dagon

[Unlearner]

Here is a great koan (poem) that exemplifies this point imo:

 

 

 

Chiyono saw through the reflection of self.

 

One of my favorites as well. I can spend hours just reading koans and contemplating them.

 

My Buddhist friends here will likely enjoy seeing what I am about to say:

 

I can't see myself. If I look into a mirror I see the physical essence but there is so much more of me than can ever be seen in a mirror. And there is much more than others can ever see as well.

 

When we talk about ourself we are not talking just of what we see in a mirror but rather a collection of objects and energies all too numerous to define.

 

But I will say that I think my most important "part" is my brain. Without it I wouldn't know existance.

 

The self that can be seen is not the eternal self? or something like that

 

A wonderful teacher I had many years ago once said that the wonderful part about reality is that the whole can be greater than simply the sum of all its parts. I like to contemplate this occasionally, what do you think?

Edited September 16, 2013 by Unlearner

[Marblehead]

The self that can be seen is not the eternal self? or something like that

 

A wonderful teacher I had many years ago once said that the wonderful part about reality is that the whole can be greater than simply the sum of all its parts. I like to contemplate this occasionally, what do you think?

I'm totally with you here. A bicycle, laying in all its parts on the garage floor contains all its parts. However, there is something missing. The capability for riding it.

 

Same thing for a person without a soul. (Please don't misunderstand my usage of this word.) Yes, it is a living, breathing human being. But there is something missing that prevents it from being greater than the sum of its parts.

 

It's kinda like thinking how things could have been different if you changed something in the past.

 

Fruitless.

I will go along with that. The past is written in stone. The future isn't here yet. Today is the only day we have to live.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Marblehead

[Dagon]

Good point. Dwelling in the past usually does no good, unless you are releasing the karmic bonds from the past.

 

Like considering the things you have done wrong and things that have been done wrong to you, and then forgiving all parties involved and resolving to not do those things again, or promising not too.

 

(wisdom)

One of my favorites as well. I can spend hours just reading koans and contemplating them.

 

 

The self that can be seen is not the eternal self? or something like that

 

A wonderful teacher I had many years ago once said that the wonderful part about reality is that the whole can be greater than simply the sum of all its parts. I like to contemplate this occasionally, what do you think?

 

I would agree, because reality is generally subjective, or what can be perceived, and there is much more than we can directly perceive, cool quote.

Edited September 17, 2013 by Dagon

[PLB]

Asking how does one see oneself can be heard in two different ways.

It can be a request for an image or an assessment. Maybe a narrative that serves as an explanation or description that paints a true picture. Or at least a picture that is not terribly wrong.

Asking "how" can also mean asking how is it done. What makes the perception possible and what is the relationship between the perceiver and the perceived?

I propose that conflating the two kinds questions is a source of confusion. We are limited in our abilities to answer either sort of question. They each have different kinds of limits.

With that said, what Jung said about casting a shadow is interesting in both registers. One begins to pay more attention after realizing one doesn't know oneself and that self is out doing stuff.

[Dagon]

The image of the Cartesian Theater should elaborate on the title of the post, and it originally showed infinite regression. (This is more to do with Dennett and Hawking.)

 

I'm not personally a fan of problem based psychology (Which usually leads to your parents) and prefer the solution based sort.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Dagon

[mYTHmAKER]

In the realm of images

there was a time when one could only see themselves reflected in water - poor average commoners

rich people might have acquired a mirror - shiny metal.

At some point we all could see images - we all had mirrors

Without mirrors or devices for reflection we are unable to see what we look like.

Try to see yourself without a reflecting device - the headless horseman.

We take mirrors for granted.

Even with a mirror we don't see ourselves as others do unless we see with a true mirror.

http://www.truemirror.com/

[joeblast]

cool

[PLB]

Jung would probably agree with your comment:

 

I'm not personally a fan of problem based psychology (Which usually leads to your parents) and prefer the solution based sort.

 

His interest in alchemy and transformation demonstrates he was more positive than the guy who said "our job is to turn hysterical misery into ordinary unhappiness."