The Sage goes to a motel....

[Stosh]

But seriously

The sage is just a literary device , it is the personification of the idealized mind-person as SOME MAY SEE IT.

Take the philosophy to its furthest extent , and that is what you get -a sage.

The behaviors of the sage are supposed to ring true , valid . Its not that we should expect to achieve sageness in totality ,

(Since , as flexible material humans , we are just as prone to pick up 'bad' lessons as well as 'good'.)

but the suggestion is there that potentially, sagely counterintuitive wisdom is a valid option ,

just as much so as "normal " behavior.

The sage could be said to have many reactions to the spider,

he could overcome temporary fear , possessing a clear perspective on what is and what is not illusory ,

he could act with aplomb and let it go outside, -because he didnt want to harm it ,

he could pass off the spider disposal to someone inclined to it - allowing them to be of service ..

or he could just smash the thing, because he understands that there is no good or evil to satiate,

or he could flip a darn coin and leave it to fate!

So what WOULD ! be the mark of the sage in this instance?

I figure ,

he would be in harmony with his nature rather than in discord , and he would be accepting of whatever he- or she ,did.

I doubt if there was a neon sign outside saying "Arachnid Motel - rooms from 40$ a night, en suite facilities and your own spider" ...

Oh , , I think you can intuit which ones arent likely to have spiders breeding in the rooms.

and so you'd avoid the ones that go for forty bucks a night.

[Friend]

But seriously

The sage is just a literary device , it is the personification of the idealized mind-person as SOME MAY SEE IT.

Take the philosophy to its furthest extent , and that is what you get -a sage.

The behaviors of the sage are supposed to ring true , valid . Its not that we should expect to achieve sageness in totality ,

(Since , as flexible material humans , we are just as prone to pick up 'bad' lessons as well as 'good'.)

but the suggestion is there that potentially, sagely counterintuitive wisdom is a valid option ,

just as much so as "normal " behavior.

The sage could be said to have many reactions to the spider,

he could overcome temporary fear , possessing a clear perspective on what is and what is not illusory ,

he could act with aplomb and let it go outside, -because he didnt want to harm it ,

he could pass off the spider disposal to someone inclined to it - allowing them to be of service ..

or he could just smash the thing, because he understands that there is no good or evil to satiate,

or he could flip a darn coin and leave it to fate!

So what WOULD ! be the mark of the sage in this instance?

I figure ,

he would be in harmony with his nature rather than in discord , and he would be accepting of whatever he- or she ,did.

If we know what a Sage would do next, would he be a Sage?

The same is with definition of a Stoic Sage.

Either one is a one or one is none.

 

Think about the expectation how a Sage

has to be from the observer

who categorize someone as Sage.

 

When you remember that it was shocking

to see some chinese "Masters" smoke and eat meat

drank and swear, one has absolut the picture

of the vegetarian, clean, sober and kind and gentle

one conflicting for a moment for those who expect this

when they had the stereotype gurus from India

with flowers and mantrasinging.

 

All we can do is to imagine what a Sage in our own mind

would do and appear to us - which may reflect our

own wisdom and knowledge.

 

We are like Faust talking to a Ghost in Goethes Faust 510-513 :

"Thou art like the spirit thou canst comprehend,

Not me!"

[Marblehead]

Oh , , I think you can intuit which ones arent likely to have spiders breeding in the rooms.

and so you'd avoid the ones that go for forty bucks a night.

In my younger days I got the spider hotels because they didn't cost as much.

[Stosh]

In my younger days I got the spider hotels because they didn't cost as much.

Thats fine , me too , but then,,, I wasnt trying to live the pampered situation of the wealthy urbanite,, because if I was ,, It would behoove me to have the cash to pay for it .

( and the sage would know enough to strive toward the high paying jobs ,if such was his nature)

 

If we know what a Sage would do next, would he be a Sage?

The same is with definition of a Stoic Sage.

Either one is a one or one is none.

 

Think about the expectation how a Sage

has to be from the observer

who categorize someone as Sage.

 

When you remember that it was shocking

to see some chinese "Masters" smoke and eat meat

drank and swear, one has absolut the picture

of the vegetarian, clean, sober and kind and gentle

one conflicting for a moment for those who expect this

when they had the stereotype gurus from India

with flowers and mantrasinging.

 

All we can do is to imagine what a Sage in our own mind

would do and appear to us - which may reflect our

own wisdom and knowledge.

 

We are like Faust talking to a Ghost in Goethes Faust 510-513 :

"Thou art like the spirit thou canst comprehend,

Not me!"

I dont know what to say , is that a question for me ? a rebuttal? agreement?

[Friend]

 

I dont know what to say , is that a question for me ? a rebuttal? agreement?

It is something to consider.

[Stosh]

Great! I am so glad you entirely agree with my every word.

That's nice

[Marblehead]

Great! I am so glad you entirely agree with my every word. That's nice

I think he might be about the only one. Hehehe.

[Stosh]

There is that saying that goes along the lines of ,

' not one in ten, knows the way.'

So we're in appropriate company.

He that is not against me , is with me , since I am not against me either.

[manitou]

If we know what a Sage would do next, would he be a Sage?

The same is with definition of a Stoic Sage.

Either one is a one or one is none.

 

Friend, what is your definition of a Stoic Sage? I've never heard that expression before.

[Apech]

A Taoist Sage, a Buddha and a Taobum walk into a Motel and ask for a room, Jesus is at the reception:

 

Taobum: Can we have a room for the night?

 

Jesus: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

 

Buddha: Everything is empty it seems!

 

Sage: To make a room, you have to cut doors and windows; without openings, a place isn't livable. To make use of what is here, you must make use of what is not.

[hydrogen]

All we can do is to imagine what a Sage in our own mind

would do and appear to us - which may reflect our

own wisdom and knowledge.

 

Very true.

 

Mirror mirror on the wall, who's the most spiritualist of all?

[Friend]

Friend, what is your definition of a Stoic Sage? I've never heard that expression before.

 

Quote:

"The Stoics conceived of the sage as an individual beyond any possibility of harm from fate. The life difficulties faced by other humans (illness, poverty, criticism and bad reputation, death, etc.) could not cause a sage any sorrow, and the life circumstances sought by other people (good health, wealth, praise and fame, long life, etc.) were regarded by the Stoic sage as unnecessary externals. The Stoics thought of the sage as an agent unaffected by life circumstances, whose happiness (eudaimonia) is based entirely on virtue.^[3]

This invulnerability to harm from externals is achieved by the sage through knowledge, based on the right use of impressions. The right use of impressions is a core concept in Stoic epistemology.^[4]

 

The Stoics regarded the sage, the truly wise man, as rare, and few (if any) examples of actual sages who had lived were ever named. Despite that, the Stoics regarded sages as the only virtuous and happy humans. All others are regarded as fools, morally vicious, slaves and unfortunate.^[5][6] The Stoics did not admit any middle ground between sages and non-sages: one is either a sage or a fool. Cicero wrote that, according to the Stoics, "every non-sage is mad."

 

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sage_%28sophos%29

[manitou]

A Taoist Sage, a Buddha and a Taobum walk into a Motel and ask for a room, Jesus is at the reception:

 

Taobum: Can we have a room for the night?

 

Jesus: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

 

Buddha: Everything is empty it seems!

 

Sage: To make a room, you have to cut doors and windows; without openings, a place isn't livable. To make use of what is here, you must make use of what is not.

 

 

How incredibly wonderful! The utility of the vessel is in its emptiness. The not-doing. Like a turkey vulture who doesn't need to flap his wings; he merely rides the energy that exists, the thermals. And yet he can see all. He is also a totem animal for Enlightenment, one of the components being to do without doing. No man is wasted, the Sage knows how to utilize the talents of all men, to bend the light and use the energy that already exists to effect an intended change. Wu-wei.

[Brian]

Remember that the turkey vulture starts from the ground and has to expend personal energy through hard work in order to develop the potential energy which puts it in a position of being able to leverage the thermals...

 

Edited September 19, 2013 by Brian

[manitou]

Quote:

"The Stoics conceived of the sage as an individual beyond any possibility of harm from fate. The life difficulties faced by other humans (illness, poverty, criticism and bad reputation, death, etc.) could not cause a sage any sorrow, and the life circumstances sought by other people (good health, wealth, praise and fame, long life, etc.) were regarded by the Stoic sage as unnecessary externals. The Stoics thought of the sage as an agent unaffected by life circumstances, whose happiness (eudaimonia) is based entirely on virtue.^[3]

This invulnerability to harm from externals is achieved by the sage through knowledge, based on the right use of impressions. The right use of impressions is a core concept in Stoic epistemology.^[4]

 

The Stoics regarded the sage, the truly wise man, as rare, and few (if any) examples of actual sages who had lived were ever named. Despite that, the Stoics regarded sages as the only virtuous and happy humans. All others are regarded as fools, morally vicious, slaves and unfortunate.^[5][6] The Stoics did not admit any middle ground between sages and non-sages: one is either a sage or a fool. Cicero wrote that, according to the Stoics, "every non-sage is mad."

 

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sage_%28sophos%29

 

 

Thanks, Friend. I would have done a Wiki thing on this too, but you never know how enlightened the writer of the article is. I do know the depth of your understanding, however; have seen it for some time, so my preference was to hear your take on it.

 

My comment on 'either a sage or a fool' is that we're all in the process of Sageness, whether in this incarnation or one in the seeming future. We Are, but aren't aware of it. This is what awareness is all about. We become Enlightened when we realize that we are enlightened, an inner Knowing that supercedes anything we read in books or learn from Masters. Yes, the way can be revealed to us through transmission, but the journey must come from within. It is at this point where the Master has no choice but to point at the moon. He can take the student no further; the inner journey must be taken.

 

I do agree with the Stoics too, in the sense that the Sage is protected from any harm that fate places in front of him. The DDJ does make reference to that as well. It is because the Sage is in complete harmony with all around him. Even feces is a thing of beauty when regarded in the larger picture, a by product of that which has passed through us to enable our physical experience on this planet, or seemingly so, although illusory. I think this is one big classroom, the ultimate diploma being to return to the Void and see that we are all a part of each other. To love our brother as ourselves, even if our brother is coming at us with a machete from the other side of the planet. Even from him, there is nothing to fear if we take it one moment at a time and stay in Awareness of who we Are.

 

Remember that the turkey vulture starts from the ground and has to expend personal energy through hard work in order to develop the potential energy which puts it in a position of being able to leverage the thermals...

 

 

 

Nice metaphor. Perhaps this is another way of saying that there is much inner work that must be done. No, the vulture is not born in the sky, you're right.

[Stosh]

Didnt Cz suggest to 'Do the small thing to effect the large'

 

 

An empty jug of water

isnt worth carrying

[manitou]

Didnt Cz suggest to 'Do the small thing to effect the large'

 

 

An empty jug of water

isnt worth carrying

 

 

I think this is the part in the DDJ where the Sage can see the problem on the horizon and cuts it off at its source, nips it in the bud. This is to bend the light, seems to me.

[Stosh]

The light is already bent , but if one knows where it is supposed to point , one can put it on target.

[Friend]

My comment on 'either a sage or a fool' is that we're all in the process of Sageness, whether in this incarnation or one in the seeming future. We Are, but aren't aware of it. This is what awareness is all about. We become Enlightened when we realize that we are enlightened, an inner Knowing that supercedes anything we read in books or learn from Masters. Yes, the way can be revealed to us through transmission, but the journey must come from within. It is at this point where the Master has no choice but to point at the moon. He can take the student no further; the inner journey must be taken.

 

I do agree with the Stoics too, in the sense that the Sage is protected from any harm that fate places in front of him. The DDJ does make reference to that as well. It is because the Sage is in complete harmony with all around him. Even feces is a thing of beauty when regarded in the larger picture, a by product of that which has passed through us to enable our physical experience on this planet, or seemingly so, although illusory. I think this is one big classroom, the ultimate diploma being to return to the Void and see that we are all a part of each other. To love our brother as ourselves, even if our brother is coming at us with a machete from the other side of the planet. Even from him, there is nothing to fear if we take it one moment at a time and stay in Awareness of who we Are.

 

 

Hey Manitou we have lots talk lately

 

Actually "we" is the right word in my opinion.

The "Buddha Nature" is something very true which is enligthend all the time.

To realize that one has a Buddha Nature is when its voice reach ones perception.

A transmission is like a jump start to remember and to be aware of.

 

It is from my view a great help to have someone

who is going the the same path to meet the Buddha Nature.

The journey as you said Manitou has to come within

because it appears to me the inner conviction to meet the Buddha Nature

has to be there to make journey into oneself.

 

The seeking in outside for teachers inspires and can give some nice

results for the moment of life. When the teacher point at himself and

grasp the hand of his student and point it on the student then he

has the right direction.

 

The Sage in my opinion protected from harm that Fate in front him

not only because of his soberity but because of this Buddha Nature,

the "True Self". Depending on oneself decision to "listen" to

the True Self - harm is not even met, only if it serve a purpose

the Buddha Nature has set - which seem to do with

the task we are living in the reincarnation.

 

Because one gain the abillity to "create" ones Fate

instead of Fate is happening to a person.

It is so that when one do not want to be found then one can not be found.

So a Machete Man would not been met.

 

The importance of a Reality is shifted by choosing the Frame of observation

From higher levels the physical body and the physical body is only

a Maya, an illusion.

 

Still it is very real for what is happening to the physical body,

without one it is like an observer who can watch TV

instead of having an Avatar in a Game and change the flow.

(I was wondering if they do betting and have Fan Community

in spiritual realms for those living humans: "Awesome he brush his teeth"

Somebody understand those beings...... )

[Mark Foote]

I try not to kill things if I can help it (although I am a carnivore- so far I haven't found a way not to be and get along well). I always feel like sparing a spider's life is a good exercise in thinking good thoughts toward all beings, which I presume is the reflex I want if I am faced with something dangerous up close, suddenly.

 

My apologies, I thought I was posting on the end of the thread but discovered I was not, by several pages- oops.

ok, now I'm read up and ready to go!

 

as to the Sage with the spider phobia in a hotel room with the same, he should call the front desk and ask for another room (you learn that when you either travel a lot or work as a travel agent for awhile, I did the latter).

Edited September 20, 2013 by Mark Foote

[manitou]

as to the Sage with the spider phobia in a hotel room with the same, he should call the front desk and ask for another room (you learn that when you either travel a lot or work as a travel agent for awhile, I did the latter).

 

 

What a wonderful response, Mr. Foote! Not one of us rocket scientists came up with that simple answer.

 

 

Hey Manitou we have lots talk lately

 

 

Because one gain the abillity to "create" ones Fate

instead of Fate is happening to a person.

It is so that when one do not want to be found then one can not be found.

So a Machete Man would not been met.

 

The importance of a Reality is shifted by choosing the Frame of observation

From higher levels the physical body and the physical body is only

a Maya, an illusion.

 

Still it is very real for what is happening to the physical body,

without one it is like an observer who can watch TV

instead of having an Avatar in a Game and change the flow.

(I was wondering if they do betting and have Fan Community

in spiritual realms for those living humans: "Awesome he brush his teeth"

Somebody understand those beings...... )

 

 

yes, we have had lots of talk lately, Friend - and I have enjoyed every word of our conversations.

 

You bring up avatars in computer games. How interesting. It's like games started out 'reactive', like the pong game, pinball games, etc. Now they have evolved into the point where you are creating your game as you go along, changing the dynamic of the game, bending the light intentionally - like the gamers (reactors) have become the creators through evolution. What an interesting take on the current state of human affairs.

 

The ability to create one's fate. A friend of mine teaches classes in 'Manifesting' over at a local college, and she doesn't have a clue as to what this means. She thinks 'manifesting' and 'manipulation' are synonyms. Unfortunately, she doesn't see that one has to clarify one's inner self prior to having the ability to manifest one's own world. It is very easy to 'read' the current state of another's consciousness, just by looking at their manifestations. I've tried with futility to explain this phenomena to her, but she always manages to fall back on her Roman-Catholic-ness and feel that she's coming from a point of view superior to everyone else's. A lovely lady, but locked in a cage of the makings of her own ego.

 

No, the Machete Man would not have been met. But staying out of the jungle is not an option.

Edited September 20, 2013 by manitou

[Friend]

You bring up avatars in computer games. How interesting. It's like games started out 'reactive', like the pong game, pinball games, etc. Now they have evolved into the point where you are creating your game as you go along, changing the dynamic of the game, bending the light intentionally - like the gamers (reactors) have become the creators through evolution. What an interesting take on the current state of human affairs.

 

The ability to create one's fate. A friend of mine teaches classes in 'Manifesting' over at a local college, and she doesn't have a clue as to what this means. She thinks 'manifesting' and 'manipulation' are synonyms. Unfortunately, she doesn't see that one has to clarify one's inner self prior to having the ability to manifest one's own world. It is very easy to 'read' the current state of another's consciousness, just by looking at their manifestations. I've tried with futility to explain this phenomena to her, but she always manages to fall back on her Roman-Catholic-ness and feel that she's coming from a point of view superior to everyone else's. A lovely lady, but locked in a cage of the makings of her own ego.

 

No, the Machete Man would not have been met. But staying out of the jungle is not an option.

 

A book I try to understand

and always lost track is

"The Last Unicorn" by

Peter S.Beagle.

 

It is for me a rich roman

for those who follow the path

of mysteries as it has

concepts with various level

to be understood of.

I think it is something to read to find

the traces of Sagehood in the Unicorn.

 

Quote

"I can never regret

I can feel sorrow

but it's not the same thing"

 

Each of the character seem to present

a sort of person when they come

to contact with the Sage/Immortal/Unicorn.

Not everyone can see a Unicorn.

But those types who can "see"

are having a name.

 

Schmendrik the magician

(Schmendrik is Yiddish for a "stupid person")

If one watch the movie or read the roman

he followed Mommy Fortuna (which you one

interpret as an Guru who is using Illusion,

enchanted normal animals)- who with luck had been

able with her little abillity to catch the Harpy and

the Unicorn.

 

Schmendrik wished to be a true magician

and with his tricks (his own will, manipulation)

could not really do much and we see many

slap stick scenes with him having in end up

in Hagards Fortress to "entertain him".

 

By the contact with the Unicorn he could

draw from the real magic, when he surrender

to the force and "allow"

Quote : "Magic, magic, do as you will"

 

Isnt this Manifesting oh Manitou?

[Marblehead]

Not everyone can see a Unicorn.

And fewer still are able to see a Pegacorn.

[manitou]

And fewer still are able to see a Pegacorn.

Weisenheimer.

 

A book I try to understand

and always lost track is

"The Last Unicorn" by

Peter S.Beagle.

 

It is for me a rich roman

for those who follow the path

of mysteries as it has

concepts with various level

to be understood of.

I think it is something to read to find

the traces of Sagehood in the Unicorn.

 

Quote

"I can never regret

I can feel sorrow

but it's not the same thing"

 

Each of the character seem to present

a sort of person when they come

to contact with the Sage/Immortal/Unicorn.

Not everyone can see a Unicorn.

But those types who can "see"

are having a name.

 

Schmendrik the magician

(Schmendrik is Yiddish for a "stupid person")

If one watch the movie or read the roman

he followed Mommy Fortuna (which you one

interpret as an Guru who is using Illusion,

enchanted normal animals)- who with luck had been

able with her little abillity to catch the Harpy and

the Unicorn.

 

Schmendrik wished to be a true magician

and with his tricks (his own will, manipulation)

could not really do much and we see many

slap stick scenes with him having in end up

in Hagards Fortress to "entertain him".

 

By the contact with the Unicorn he could

draw from the real magic, when he surrender

to the force and "allow"

Quote : "Magic, magic, do as you will"

 

Isnt this Manifesting oh Manitou?

"I can never regret

I can feel sorrow

But it's not the same thing".

 

To regret would be to assume that we had some degree of control over the situation and we were the cause. We are not the cause, it was preordained in the sense that it is all happening Here and Now. Riding the ox is a good metaphor here. Our job is to keep our balance, that's all. We think that we are The Thinker and The Causer, but in reality we are not. We are just here for the ride and to see through the illusion of physicality. To merge with each other and our seeming circumstances.

 

Yes, I agree that the real magic is "to allow", the essence of wu-wei. To allow, to accept, to love. To Be the change we wish to see happen. Are you standing in a parking lot where there's a bit of trash on the ground? Do you look at the trash with disdain and think the store should do a better job of cleaning it up? Or do you bend over and pick up a little trash and walk to the trash can? Which one is bending the light? The judgment or the action?

 

We are all sorcerers, if we but knew it. It's just a question of getting ego and judgment out of the way. To See with long eyes what the true dynamic is, not merely judge what's in front of our face.

 

I don't think Mommy Fortuna had luck at all. I think she attracted the unicorn because of her pure essence and being. I don't think the unicorn landed on a particular number on the roulette wheel, willy nilly. It was the law of attraction that brought the unicorn to her.

 

This is manifesting, as I see it. To attract to us the beautiful, the artful, the profound. The sage will turn it around and send it back out. To let it happen, not judge anything, just let it Be. To deal with everything As It Is, to love everything for what it is, not what we think it should be. It is only then that the magic happens. To bring ourselves to the point where ego doesn't stand in the way of the flow of wu-wei. To feel love for all without exception.

[Marblehead]

Weisenheimer.

 

Danke schön!