What is this feeling?

[Unlearner]

First post is below

Edited September 15, 2013 by Unlearner

[Unlearner]

Allow me to provide a little bit of background on myself before I get to the main issue. I was raised as a Catholic for the first 18 years of my life, and while I do appreciate some of the values that it instilled in me now, eventually I found myself not agreeing with many of the core beliefs that it preached, and I decided to part with it to find a way that suited me. Primarily, I was focused in the sciences, especially physics; I majored in physics and math when I went to college, though I never finished for personal reasons (though I do plan on returning this fall to complete my degree). Currently, I have a job as a type of explosives technician, though I do not forsee myself staying with this as a career (although it still keeps me involved with some chemistry and physics).

 

Unlike most of my fellow science enthusiasts, however, I also take an avid interest in the philosophies that accompany my studies of the way of the universe. I was first exposed to Taoism and Buddhism about 5 years ago, and while it took some time for me to take a real interest in it, I have since begun studying them with less whimsical curiosity and more actual interest in following them. I, personally, find that they tend to flow quite nicely with each other, something that I was rather astounded to see when I first came to this realization. Coincidentally, around this time I found a book called "The Tao of Physics" by Fritjof Capra, which seemed to support so many things that I had been thinking for so long, yet prior to which I had no way of sharing these ideas with anyone I would know.

 

Since then, almost all of my reading consists of Taoist, Buddhist, and scientific literature. When able, I enjoy practicing martial arts and the accompanying breathing and meditative exercises that go with them (up until a few months ago, I had been studying Wing Chun under an excellent teacher). Unfortunately, I seem to have come to a point where I am having a very difficult time finding my way from here. My current job requires me to move around quite a bit, and now it seems that I have ended up in the middle of nowhere, and I'm probably going to be stuck here for a while, with nothing to practice but mixed martial arts, which I have very little interest in, as it holds no real value for me other than the physical training.

 

So, for now it seems I'm on my own with my studies and meditation. (Apologies if that seemed like an excessively long introduction to the topic, but it seemed more appropriate than having to explain it later.) The problem I seem to be having is that, while I am generally benefitting from my continuation of my reading, I am getting this feeling as if I am being overcome with all the ideas I'm trying to take in at once.

 

I have not been following Taoism or Buddhism for very long, and though I readily accept the ideas they teach, my mind is having a very difficult time adjusting to the change, as I was raised under many of the various western philosophies which seem to go in the opposite direction. To make this more difficult, I do not know nor have I ever known personally anyone who has had any similar interest in these ideas, so I feel very much on my own with this. I just cannot seem to take the ideas that I am learning and turn them into something that I can actually practice regularly, because everything I've ever learned prior to this, and everything that all the people around me have ever learned goes against the direction I'm trying to go.

 

To put it into a metaphor, I feel like I'm caught in the strong current of a river. A river of selfishness, pride, personal agendas, social conventions, and professional structures, and it's taking all the energy I have to simply not go with this flow that it is so easy to get caught up in, to keep my mind still, empty, and present. I can't just throw everything away, give everything up and remove myself from the situation (Well, I could, but that's not going to get me very far anyway. Also, I actually already did that once; good story, but I'll save it for a later time). I just feel overwhelmed with what I'm trying to do, as if there is some force that is crushing my mind. The ironic part is that I've always been incredibly successful in my professional life, I tend to somehow be successful in everything I do, and I'm a very quick and thorough learner. It's just so easy to get caught up in the same mindset that everyone else has, distracted by the same illusions of success and failure, focused on the same goals and accomplishments that people desire to achieve.

 

So, with all that said, I need guidance from someone who is more experienced than I am. If I carry on by myself as I have been, it is so incredibly difficult that it's having a lot of negative effects on me. I would be incredibly grateful if someone would be able to point me in a direction, give me something that I can do to work on it, or even something as simple as just being able to talk to someone who shares the same views that I have. I feel like all I can do right now to alleviate it is to distract myself from it with various things, but it's just a temporary fix, it does nothing to improve anything. If you took the time to read all this, I thank you for at least doing that much.

Edited September 15, 2013 by Unlearner

[Dagon]

You think too much.

 

 

Vipassana/mindfullness/emptiness.

 

Use the search engine and google to learn about the above terms.

 

It might seem too simple, but just try not to think about anything for a minute.

 

It's weird because thinking seems to be an action, yet it is more difficult to not do this action than it is to do it.

 

(moved it here)

Edited September 15, 2013 by Dagon

[Unlearner]

Sorry, editing trouble, I think it's been sorted out

Edited September 15, 2013 by Unlearner

[silent thunder]

We all go through cycles. You've obviously been intensely studying and acquiring a lot of new information.

 

Perhaps now isn't the time for more intense formal training, since the conditions of your life have brought you away from your teacher. It also struck me reading your post, that if you're feeling overloaded with taking in too much, it's time to pull back a bit and let all the new information you've accumulated a chance to assimilate and balance itself out.

 

I'd try spending some times doing things that relax and settle your spirit. There's a time to push and a time to let the current carry you on what you've gained already.

 

The muddiest waters will clear if left to settle.

 

The river you feel caught up in, is comprised not just of the things you wish to avoid, but of the things which replenish you.

It's just a matter of perception and focus, which one we see.

 

I'm rambling, but I've been where you are... rest assured this passes.

Nothing stays the same.

[Bearded Dragon]

Don't get caught up in all the traditions. By all means follow them, but the best thing you can do for yourself is...

 

1) Find something negative (you already seem to be able to do this)

2) Make the decision to let it go AND STICK TO IT. It's a creation of your mind which will dissolve in time. Be patient.

 

It's that easy, however it will take time and dedication to the idea of letting it go. I have been doing this my whole life and I'm not typically bothered by anything, or at least not for very long.

 

The issue that most people have is that they don't WANT to let go. They try and either blame it on someone else or they take the responsibility away from themselves and ask for someone else's help (like what you're doing). The truth is that you don't need anyone's help. You already know what to do and you just need the courage to do it.

[silent thunder]

Don't get caught up in all the traditions. By all means follow them, but the best thing you can do for yourself is...

 

1) Find something negative (you already seem to be able to do this)

2) Make the decision to let it go AND STICK TO IT. It's a creation of your mind which will dissolve in time. Be patient.

 

It's that easy, however it will take time and dedication to the idea of letting it go. I have been doing this my whole life and I'm not typically bothered by anything, or at least not for very long.

 

The issue that most people have is that they don't WANT to let go. They try and either blame it on someone else or they take the responsibility away from themselves and ask for someone else's help (like what you're doing). The truth is that you don't need anyone's help. You already know what to do and you just need the courage to do it.

 

Well said.

[Dagon]

There are a lot of ways to do it, some just banish them or refuse to follow them, some judge them as good or bad and let them go, others focus on breathing, some use mantra's, some even listen to music, some focus on objects, etc . . .

Edited September 15, 2013 by Dagon

[BaguaKicksAss]

Ehem, apologies for the topic vanishing for a moment! Apparently I can't hide the very first post in a merged topic without the entire topic being hidden, and difficult to unhide. Yeah for backend unhiding capabilities heh. Will hide this post when the first post is sorted .

[Unlearner]

Ehem, apologies for the topic vanishing for a moment! Apparently I can't hide the very first post in a merged topic without the entire topic being hidden, and difficult to unhide. Yeah for backend unhiding capabilities heh. Will hide this post when the first post is sorted .

Not a problem, I don't know how it got double posted in the first place, but thank you for sorting it out

[Dagon]

How do they do it in bagua BKA?

 

(I think they pace in circles)

Edited September 15, 2013 by Dagon

[BaguaKicksAss]

We circle walk. This brings up our stuff, anything which may be in our way, unbalancing us, unresolved stuff and so on. It sort of clears the way. It is also a great meditational tool in the fact you are sort of walking the qua/trigrams themselves and the iching (as some see it).

I may come back after some sleep and edit for clarity lol.

[Dagon]

Cool!

 

I find pacing comforting as well.

[roger]

Unlearner,

 

The problem here, as I see it, is the same basic problem that nearly everyone has, whether it is apparent or not. This problem is a negative, fear-based, view of self.

 

Unlearner, you are a worthy, beautiful, glorious, divine being, just as everyone is. You can come up with affirmations to help yourself know this, such as: I am worthy. I am beautiful. I am lovable, and so on.

 

The thing is that you can do all the spiritual practices you wish, but still never deal with this main issue. Ideally, spiritual practice should help us think more lovingly about ourselves and others.

 

There is nothing wrong with you, Unlearner. You're beautiful and perfect just like you are. Know it!

[BaguaKicksAss]

Also some of us go into the medical qigong and/or mysticism siide of things to sort stuff out further.

Cool!

 

I find pacing comforting as well.

 

an entire body twisted and torqued while moving from your deep core sort of pacing .

[Dagon]

I still haven't learned about that sort of pacing . . . yet.

 

 

I would like to visit zerostao one day so he can show me some stuff.

Edited September 15, 2013 by Dagon

[silent thunder]

I use mantras or music when I'm in my darkest place.

Something to interrupt the signal, when I cannot sit with it.

 

 

Running away or healing... I'm not sure which. yet.

Edited September 15, 2013 by silent thunder

[de_paradise]

We all more or less have the same problem, regarding the river and social values etc. Sometimes I understand I am making huge progress, feel some kind of bliss in my body, and wonderful mental stability, only to find myself in the same type of life-driven-by-greed and pursuit of personal pleasures the next week. The path opens up organically or naturally, incrementally adding practices here and there, absorbing cultivation teachings into your life to replace socially programmed teaching. Or something sudden may happen to push you towards cultivation lifestyle, a greater resolution and confidence in the path of enlightenment, its reality, that you can actually attain enlightenment in your lifetime. Alot of us are churning around things in our minds, these mental burdens that can be just dropped. And thats what Buddhist teachings are so good for--dropping your self-made problems. Non-martial energy practices like some neigong or yogas are not difficult to learn (dvd's, seminars, etc), and the main impediment is the dedication to regular practice, not an on-hand teacher. You learn the techniques, wash rinse and repeat. In summary, a greater push towards spirituality is made by adding meditation and energy practices and "life practices", a long-haul type, sometimes really slow transition ( the responsibility is all on you) The universe, or whatever it is,sometimes will respond to your earnest and sincere intents by swinging teachers and energy-rific people and ideas your way.

[Jetsun]

It doesn't have to be a battle. You don't have to make yourself go with the flow or be present or any of that if it doesn't feel appropriate to you at that moment. You have been conditioned your whole life to be a certain way, but if you then get into spirituality you might then try to condition yourself another way, which can just be another different manifestation of ego ie you trying to make yourself the way you think you should be, which can create draining conflicts.

 

But I understand the position of being caught in two worlds or sitting on two stools if that is what you mean, nobody I know in my old regular life is interested in this stuff, although there are many people who are who I met after i got into it. But really you don't need other people to be interested or even separate normal and spiritual life from each other, even if it seems like you do.

 

There is a thing Adyashanti talks about how whatever you resist persists, so if you resist getting caught up in competition and the flows of regular life then that resistance can be the exact thing which keeps you stuck, it doesn't mean that you indulge in it but he says when you are willing to be deluded and taken and put to sleep by life then there is the possibility of becoming free of it. Maybe his teachings could give you some clarity.

[Unlearner]

It doesn't have to be a battle. You don't have to make yourself go with the flow or be present or any of that if it doesn't feel appropriate to you at that moment. You have been conditioned your whole life to be a certain way, but if you then get into spirituality you might then try to condition yourself another way, which can just be another different manifestation of ego ie you trying to make yourself the way you think you should be, which can create draining conflicts.

 

But I understand the position of being caught in two worlds or sitting on two stools if that is what you mean, nobody I know in my old regular life is interested in this stuff, although there are many people who are who I met after i got into it. But really you don't need other people to be interested or even separate normal and spiritual life from each other, even if it seems like you do.

 

There is a thing Adyashanti talks about how whatever you resist persists, so if you resist getting caught up in competition and the flows of regular life then that resistance can be the exact thing which keeps you stuck, it doesn't mean that you indulge in it but he says when you are willing to be deluded and taken and put to sleep by life then there is the possibility of becoming free of it. Maybe his teachings could give you some clarity.

 

Very well said, I thank you for this. I will definitely follow up on Adyashanti, from your description it seems that it would be very beneficial.

 

Unlearner,

 

The problem here, as I see it, is the same basic problem that nearly everyone has, whether it is apparent or not. This problem is a negative, fear-based, view of self.

 

Unlearner, you are a worthy, beautiful, glorious, divine being, just as everyone is. You can come up with affirmations to help yourself know this, such as: I am worthy. I am beautiful. I am lovable, and so on.

 

The thing is that you can do all the spiritual practices you wish, but still never deal with this main issue. Ideally, spiritual practice should help us think more lovingly about ourselves and others.

 

There is nothing wrong with you, Unlearner. You're beautiful and perfect just like you are. Know it!

 

As much as I don't like to admit it, I feel this is very true of myself. In spite of a lot of the confidence I have in my abilities, I do not always hold the same idea for myself as a person (I wasn't the greatest person in my younger days, I had some of issues with angry and violent behavior). I have been working to improve this, but it is something I still find myself going back to periodically out of habit. I thank you for your kind words, and I will continue to improve this negative self-image I have of myself.

 

Don't get caught up in all the traditions. By all means follow them, but the best thing you can do for yourself is...

 

1) Find something negative (you already seem to be able to do this)

2) Make the decision to let it go AND STICK TO IT. It's a creation of your mind which will dissolve in time. Be patient.

 

It's that easy, however it will take time and dedication to the idea of letting it go. I have been doing this my whole life and I'm not typically bothered by anything, or at least not for very long.

 

The issue that most people have is that they don't WANT to let go. They try and either blame it on someone else or they take the responsibility away from themselves and ask for someone else's help (like what you're doing). The truth is that you don't need anyone's help. You already know what to do and you just need the courage to do it.

 

One thing I have to say about this is that I feel as if I may be exerting myself too much trying to do this. In my understanding, it seems that it should be very easy to do, but the fact that I'm not having an easy time with it adds to the frustration. I think I may be getting too impatient with myself, wanting everything to happen all at once instead of allowing things to progress naturally. I will try to remember your advice as I continue on the path, thank you.

 

We all go through cycles. You've obviously been intensely studying and acquiring a lot of new information.

 

Perhaps now isn't the time for more intense formal training, since the conditions of your life have brought you away from your teacher. It also struck me reading your post, that if you're feeling overloaded with taking in too much, it's time to pull back a bit and let all the new information you've accumulated a chance to assimilate and balance itself out.

 

I'd try spending some times doing things that relax and settle your spirit. There's a time to push and a time to let the current carry you on what you've gained already.

 

The muddiest waters will clear if left to settle.

 

The river you feel caught up in, is comprised not just of the things you wish to avoid, but of the things which replenish you.

It's just a matter of perception and focus, which one we see.

 

I'm rambling, but I've been where you are... rest assured this passes.

Nothing stays the same.

 

I feel the same, that perhaps I should slow down and let what I have gained settle for a moment. However, at the moment I seem to find myself lacking in things that I find to do that are relaxing, as I do not have a lot of work to do with my job and, being kind of in the middle of nowhere, there are not very many things to do here, so I find myself with an excessive amount of free time, which makes me want to simply continue with my studies. However, I will try to focus on this more, thank you.

 

We all more or less have the same problem, regarding the river and social values etc. Sometimes I understand I am making huge progress, feel some kind of bliss in my body, and wonderful mental stability, only to find myself in the same type of life-driven-by-greed and pursuit of personal pleasures the next week. The path opens up organically or naturally, incrementally adding practices here and there, absorbing cultivation teachings into your life to replace socially programmed teaching. Or something sudden may happen to push you towards cultivation lifestyle, a greater resolution and confidence in the path of enlightenment, its reality, that you can actually attain enlightenment in your lifetime. Alot of us are churning around things in our minds, these mental burdens that can be just dropped. And thats what Buddhist teachings are so good for--dropping your self-made problems. Non-martial energy practices like some neigong or yogas are not difficult to learn (dvd's, seminars, etc), and the main impediment is the dedication to regular practice, not an on-hand teacher. You learn the techniques, wash rinse and repeat. In summary, a greater push towards spirituality is made by adding meditation and energy practices and "life practices", a long-haul type, sometimes really slow transition ( the responsibility is all on you) The universe, or whatever it is,sometimes will respond to your earnest and sincere intents by swinging teachers and energy-rific people and ideas your way.

 

I do have the same sort of ups and downs; one day I will feel that I'm making real progress, and not too long after I will feel that I haven't changed at all. I'm trying to figure out how I can stabalize this to make a more consistent and balanced mind. The only practices I'm familiar with enough to do on a regular basis are the forms I learned from Wing Chun, Siu Lim Tao and Chum Kiu. I'm not very familiar with any yogas or other non-martial energy practices. However, I will continue to find what I can to alleviate this, and perhaps something will come up.

[suninmyeyes]

...

 

I do have the same sort of ups and downs; one day I will feel that I'm making real progress, and not too long after I will feel that I haven't changed at all. I'm trying to figure out how I can stabalize this to make a more consistent and balanced mind. ...

The thing is that with this stuff -- making progress and achievement is just not the correct mesurament for this kind of metamorphosis , infact it can be something like a spiritual virus .

It does not belong to the realm of peacefulness . Achivement in this sense would not be Peacefulness , but false satisfaction .

.

 

Whatever happens is there for a reason, it is individual way of being . Individual is a sum of many circumstances and not just "doing" and every individual has a unique and important role in co-creation .

Every little thing is important . Taking easy and go through everything toroughly .

Also sometimes what seems like a lack of progress turns out to be a tool or a necessary pathway in order to be more relaxed .

 

Cultivating patience , perseverance and fearlessness helps me a lot . As well as using the opportunity for practising entering stillness in the middle whatever chaotic demanding situation may be happening .

 

That's where I am at .

 

Not easy , but hey ..that is life .

Edited September 15, 2013 by suninmyeyes

[Unlearner]

The thing is that with this stuff -- making progress and achievement is just not the correct mesurament for this kind of metamorphosis , infact it can be something like a spiritual virus .

It does not belong to the realm of peacefulness . Achivement in this sense would not be Peacefulness , but false satisfaction .

.

 

Whatever happens is there for a reason, it is individual way of being . Individual is a sum of many circumstances and not just "doing" and every individual has a unique and important role in co-creation .

Every little thing is important . Taking easy and go through everything toroughly .

Also sometimes what seems like a lack of progress turns out to be a tool or a necessary pathway in order to be more relaxed .

 

Cultivating patience , perseverance and fearlessness helps me a lot . As well as using the opportunity for practising entering stillness in the middle whatever chaotic demanding situation may be happening .

 

That's where I am at .

 

Not easy , but hey ..that is life .

 

Well said, I thank you for this. I suppose the idea I was going for was that my mind seems to still be imbalanced, still going through all the ups and downs, while I'm working to turn that fluctuation and wavering into stillness. In any case, I will take these words to heart and remember them in my contemplation.